Horrible tire wear in 2 years

[thrillhouse]

I bought a forest river v cross 28 vbh 2 years ago this month. Today I went out to do my summer maintenance and noticed horrible wear to the inside of my tires 3 of the 4 tires is bald on the inside, one is down to the threads. What could have caused this? And is it possible it would be covered under warranty even though my trailer had a one year warranty?

I'm worried about what it might be, we have done very limited driving the last 2 years as family events have limited our camping time. I would say we maybe put on 3500 miles in 2 years and I bet that is stretching it.

[69_Avion]

It is nice to see Lippert covering most of the cost, but it was their lack of engineering and being "cheap" that caused the problem to start with. The difference in using good axles and a stronger frame can't cost more than $250 when they are building the trailer. You would think that they would start with a good foundation and go from there. Instead, they go as cheap as possible and hope folks don't complain.

[gmw_photos]

thrillhouse wrote:
I just got great news from Lippert, after 5-6 days of speaking with them and sending them pictures of the axles, tire wear, and springs they have decided to send me new axles with 3 inch tubes instead of the 2 3/8 inch that was on the camper and upgrade my springs from 1700 lb to 2200 lb springs. They're paying for most of my tire cost as well.

The exact words from the rep I worked with at Lippert "you're out of warranty, but once we saw the pictures of the axles and how bent they were we HAD to do something"

I'm still disappointed that Forest River refused to acknowledge my existence as I feel that they're just as at fault.

Anyone else that experiences similar issues I encourage you to contact the axle manufacturer, it actually was a very pleasant experience once I contacted the right person.

Yes, that's great to hear that Lippert is standing up and helping you. Especially considering it's "mostly" the fault of the RV manufacturer, because they are who specs out the axle for the application. The axles in question would likely have worked just fine under a lighter trailer.
Kudos to Lippert.

[TurnThePage]

Very good reason to bypass Forest River products at upgrade time.

[coolbreeze01]

Good to hear Lippert is stepping up. Hope it goes quickly for you now.

[thrillhouse]

I just got great news from Lippert, after 5-6 days of speaking with them and sending them pictures of the axles, tire wear, and springs they have decided to send me new axles with 3 inch tubes instead of the 2 3/8 inch that was on the camper and upgrade my springs from 1700 lb to 2200 lb springs. They're paying for most of my tire cost as well.

The exact words from the rep I worked with at Lippert "you're out of warranty, but once we saw the pictures of the axles and how bent they were we HAD to do something"

I'm still disappointed that Forest River refused to acknowledge my existence as I feel that they're just as at fault.

Anyone else that experiences similar issues I encourage you to contact the axle manufacturer, it actually was a very pleasant experience once I contacted the right person.

[myredracer]

That's good news that the root of the problem has been discovered. Welcome to the dark side of TT ownership... Some of us have similar stories too unfortunately, so you are not alone. Google "undersized Lippert axles" and you will find lots of info. and personal experiences, like this one for ex. iRV2.com

On the tire and axle rating, you need to deduct the tongue weight. If the GVWR is 7675 lbs and say TW is 12% (normally in 10-15% range), the load on the axles & tires is 6754 lbs. That's cutting it pretty close on the axle ratings. However, if one side is heavier, the tires on that side could be overloaded and if one axle carries more weight than the other, an axle could be overloaded. I would say that the axles should have been the next size up.

Forget about FR, esp. if outside the warranty period. Don't count on the dealer to help on anything at this point whatsoever either. The usual process is that a factory doesn't get involved anyway and you will get a redirect straight to a third party supplier like Lippert anyway. I would get together enough supporting paperwork from the axle shop along with serial numbers on the axles and info. on the tires. I would ask them to put in writing what they find the cause to have been. Send it to Lippert and follow up by phoning them. Also try contacting the axle manufacturer. Maybe you'll get lucky.

If you upgrade to 4K axles, I think you can still use the brake/hub assemblies and 5-bolt wheels, but needs to be checked. If not, the cost would obviously go up a fair bit (if having to pay for all the work).

[fairfaxjim]

I had the same thing happen. There seem to be a LOT of crappy axles out there, and a lot of very marginally engineered suspension/tire systems being produced too.

My Milan 18CK is a 7K max trailer, and I was around 6,200 lbs most of the time. Axles bent, probably from desert dirt road travel. I had purchased the trailer 2 years old but no miles, so no warranty to bother with. I found a truck/trailer parts distributor who sold me two new Al-Ko axles in the 3" tubing option with the 3500 lb spindles. That allowed me to swap the axles only, keeping the brakes, hubs & wheels, but end up with a beefier axle. I think I spent about $300.00 on the axles and new u-bolts/hardware/shipping and if I recall correctly, about $500.00 to change it all out plus new tires.

I have put plenty of miles on the beefed up setup, including at least two desert trips a year for 3 years now and no tire wear.

[westend]

Hold onto the repair bill. Also, get a written statement from the repair outfit with their outlook on the axles. Ask for reimbursement from FR. If they don't pay up, ask the dealer. The axle mfg. may also have something to worry about with this and may ship you two upgraded axles. If you get no help from anyone, it's time for small claims court filings and the dealer is the one that sold you the inferior product.

Good luck with this.

[thrillhouse]

gmw photos wrote:
It's a sad state of affairs when the OE manufacturers use barely adequate, or inadequate equipment, and then won't back it up. Going to be pretty hard for us consumers to get them to change though, because so many of the companies do it.
Having said that, if the trailer were mine, I'd go ahead and pay for the correct axles myself, and pursue getting FR to pay me back later, with an understanding that it's not likely to happen.

Life is short, and some of these kinds of issues just need to be put behind us so we can get on with it. My opinion only.... I'm sure some will come on here now and call me names, and blame me for supporting bad behavior of the OE's and the dealers. Whatever....those guys want to fight it out with the dealer, have at it.... I'm going traveling.


Bottom line is for the OP is that we know for certain, before buying another trailer in the future, he will crawl around under it and take a close look see at the axles. Live and learn.

This is exactly where I'm at, I'll wait today to see if the dealer decides to make good, if not I need to just move on. I've waited 10 months already and I fully intend to use my trailer this year. But yes, I now know exactly what to look for if I ever buy a new trailer again, check the axles!

[gmw_photos]

It's a sad state of affairs when the OE manufacturers use barely adequate, or inadequate equipment, and then won't back it up. Going to be pretty hard for us consumers to get them to change though, because so many of the companies do it.
Having said that, if the trailer were mine, I'd go ahead and pay for the correct axles myself, and pursue getting FR to pay me back later, with an understanding that it's not likely to happen.

Life is short, and some of these kinds of issues just need to be put behind us so we can get on with it. My opinion only.... I'm sure some will come on here now and call me names, and blame me for supporting bad behavior of the OE's and the dealers. Whatever....those guys want to fight it out with the dealer, have at it.... I'm going traveling.

Bottom line is for the OP is that we know for certain, before buying another trailer in the future, he will crawl around under it and take a close look see at the axles. Live and learn.

[thrillhouse]

Well just to update. I finally got my trailer into an axle shop this spring. On Friday I got the dreaded news, I need new axles, they're so bad they won't even let me drive it off the lot without fixing or having someone tow it. Exact quote from the mechanic "these axles should NEVER have been put on a trailer of this size". Forest River has not responded to emails or voicemails since last fall so they for sure aren't going to address this issue. Just sucks to have axle issues within 2 years of spending 20 grand on a new trailer only to find out that no matter what I did that I would have axle problems. We only go for weekend trips, so just clothes, food in the fridge, coleman grill, and fold up chairs are what we travel with, no way that should overload it.
My last hope is the dealer, they're calling me tomorrow to discuss.

[thrillhouse]

Good info guys, I appreciate it. I've spent many hours on these forums learning from all of you. I definitely am going to find out what is wrong before I make any rash decisions, yes I'm a little mad at the moment, it's just frustrating. I'll get over it eventually. I'm the kind of person though when I feel like I've been wronged by a company I'll never work with them again, and it doesn't matter to me if it costs me more in the end just on principle alone I would get rid of it. I'm hoping it doesn't come to this cause other than this issue we've never had a problem with our trailer in 2 years.

I have tried finding a good shop in my area that work on travel trailers and haven't had a ton of luck yet, but I will find one. I'll let you know what I find out and if Forest River ever responds to me as I did find some good contact information on the Forest River forum as well.

As far as the dealer is concerned, I know I won't be back. The guy wouldn't even hear me out or give me a good idea of who could help me get it fixed (i.e. shop in the area) as soon as I said axle problem/tire wear he immediately said after 90 days we can't help you and he just wanted off the phone.

[Doug33]

Keep us posted as to whether the new axles and tires solved the problem long term. I would never return to that dealer if they wouldn't even try to help you in some way.

[myredracer]

Page 17 of this has a table of tire wear patterns which indicates a bent axle or overloading: Lippert manual Unless you have towed for 2 years with under-inflated tires, it sounds like bent axles. It could be from hitting potholes and craters in the roads, but could be frame and suspension issues.

I would try some googling as it looks like frame issues could be a known problem with V-Cross units. Have you asked or searched on the FR forum?

I think these V-nose TTs are one of the ones out there that have the I-beams that are made from 3 pieces of 1/8" sheet steel welded together to look like a regular forged I-beam. If you have one of these, they have extreme flex in them which could be a contributing factor. With excessive flex, the axles can bend too easily. Also, if the spring hangers are the taller 6" ones and the axles are under-slung, that increases the lateral (sideways) leverage force imposed onto the axles. If the axles are "allowed" to flex too much, you won't have to hit very big potholes to bend axles.

If you have one of the above frames, check and see if all the spring hangers are perfectly vertical (sitting on level ground). I have seen them bent out of vertical over 1/2". Look at the lower flange of the I-beam where the spring hangers are attached and see if the flange is distorted. You may need a straightedge to see it. Look for cracks in the vertical web of the I-beams right above the spring hangers. Cracks can develop there but it may be early yet in 2 years to show up.

Does the frame have gussets or other strengthening pieces welded on the I-beams near the spring hangers? Gussets help to reduce frame flex. Sometimes there is square tubing welded to the underside of the frame to help stiffen it up.

I you have something you can use as a straightedge around 5-6' like a decent 2x4, see if the axles are flat. You could also have bent spindles but it sounds more like bent axles. Axle tubes are paper thin and can be easily damaged. They are often rated at the borderline of the weight they carry.

This Lippert LIP Sheet has some helpful info.: LIP Sheet 0135

This LIP Sheet shows how to measure a frame: http://www.lci1.com/images/support/lipsheet/0088.pdf

This LIP Sheet shows tolerances in frame/suspension measurements: http://www.lci1.com/images/support/lipsheet/0151.pdf

I highly recommend that you go to a frame and axle shop that has experience with towable RVs. I wouldn't go to a semi shop. The right frame and axle shop will know exactly what to look for in a TT. If you have the fabricated I-beams, they can recommend some re-inforcement methods. They will also look for other things like sub-standard welding. One thing that can be done is to tie the bottom of the spring hangers together at the bottom. Mor/Ryde has an X-member kit or you can make your own. If the inspection shows some significant flaws and poor inherent design, you might try sending a report and pics to Lippert and the factory to see if they change their mind. I wouldn't expect the dealer to be of any help whatsoever. If sending something to the factory, I would try and find someone there higher up and who is empowered to do something.

Installing higher rated axles is a very good idea. The axle sets themselves are not that expensive and you can do it yourself. However, you may have to go from 5-lug to 6-lug wheels which may not be inexpensive. If you have a "regular" forged I-beam frame, just upgrading the axles will help tremendously.

The sad truth about TT (and FW) frames is that there are no industry standards that the frame builder has to comply with. They can build substandard frames and not be accountable to anyone. It is also the TT manufacturer's fault as they are involved in the frame specs. to some degree.

If you can, please follow up on what any findings are and what transpires in the end.