How much do bags help with sway?

[TheHardWay9]

New to this forum, and looking for some help. I purchased a 10.0 Camp Lite TC for my 07 3500 Cummins. The truck is lifted 6" so I am dealing with some sag and sway going down the road, and this is before I add the wakeboard boat to the equation.

I've done some research online and have come to the conclusion that one option is the Firestone air bags that mount outside of the frame. I like the Pac Brake bags, but they mount inside the frame, and the mounting brackets would interfere with the brackets for my traction bars.

The other option is the StableLoad from Tork Lift. They claim these things are a good starting point, over bags... that they reduce sway, and level the truck by engaging the overload springs sooner. However I'm wondering how much they help, and if they will be enough for my application.

So....I understand bags will greatly help with the leveling aspect, but how much do they help with sway? Do they make it worse? I'm already at a disadvantage with sway due to the increased COG from the lift, and I don't want to make it worse. I'm looking to level the truck and add as much stability as possible.

Haven't really looked into rear sway bars, and I think the traction bars would interfere. But for the heck of it, what are some of the popular rear sway bar options out there?

Any input would be appreciated. Anyone running a setup similar to me? Recommend one option over the other?

[silversand]

....I think that your question Isn't answerable without testing equipment set up on your specific rig, with a specific air bag (air spring) ?

In my mind, if you use air springs, then you have a more complicated situation, because you now effectively have 2 air springs (ie. your rear/front tires are essentially air springs, and add this tire behavior to the air spring behaviour associated with each rear wheel = 2 air springs per rear wheel).

I did a bit of reading on air springs ("finite element analysis of an air spring for automobile suspension"). There are several ways to look at the air spring: using FEA, and experiential. If experiential approach s used, then it is almost impossible to "measure" empirically "how much sway"; using FEA, you could run various scenarios (on the isolated bags, then isolated tire response, then both, under a set of conditions, etc)...

Any engineers out there who may elaborate more than my limited understanding?

[okan-star]

billtex wrote:

homefor2 wrote:
With anything but minimum air (10-15 lbs) they lift the truck off the overloads

Sounds like you had no need for airbags (other than leveling), or the stableloads...

Measure 2x...cut once.

Setting up a truck to properly handle a TC is a learning experience!

Exactly , I think any thing but dealing with the stiffness and capacity of your springs is just a band aid and a waste of money
I had my 2500 dodge first and put airbags on it in 2004 , had 3 popups on it and it was ok , never put much air in
Bought a 3500 Dodge dually as a second truck for a larger camper and knew I didnt want bags on it , went with supersprings
Now I have a Lance on the 2500 and the bags came off , I didnt want to spend $ on stable loads just to try so I drilled 1 more hole for each bumpstop and lowered them , its ok , way better that the sway with bags , even with 5 lbs in them, but Im getting supersprings or new progressive leafs from http://www.generalspringkc.com/Leaf_Springs_s/1817.htm
As soon as I can afford them , leaning tward superspring so the ride un loaded is still ok
Any one thats interested in airlift bags for a ford up to 04 or a dodge up to 02 , pm me an I`ll make you a almost gift of the bags I took off

[TheHardWay9]

homefor2 wrote:
Just went through all this to get a better ride on my Dodge 3500 dually. Wish I had not wasted money on the Pac Brake Air bags. With anything but minimum air (10-15 lbs) they lift the truck off the overloads and then you are driving a bowl of jello. I dropped the pressure to 10lbs, added Stable Loads, new Bilstein 5100 shocks and now I have a stable, level ride.

Out of curiosity, did you plumb the bags separately?

[billtex]

homefor2 wrote:
With anything but minimum air (10-15 lbs) they lift the truck off the overloads

Sounds like you had no need for airbags (other than leveling), or the stableloads...

Measure 2x...cut once.

Setting up a truck to properly handle a TC is a learning experience!

[homefor2]

Just went through all this to get a better ride on my Dodge 3500 dually. Wish I had not wasted money on the Pac Brake Air bags. With anything but minimum air (10-15 lbs) they lift the truck off the overloads and then you are driving a bowl of jello. I dropped the pressure to 10lbs, added Stable Loads, new Bilstein 5100 shocks and now I have a stable, level ride.

[billtex]

To answer the OP's question; they did in our case. Definitley firm up the ride when loaded.
You will need to experiment with psi...too much and it will sway.
Just right is...welll...just right!

We like the airbags as they are adjustable and don't effect unladen ride.

Bill

[2BLAZERS]

My vote is call up SuperSprings or find a local spring shop.

Supersprings on my truck was the best mod for carrying the weight of the camper plus towing.

[okan-star]

dadwolf2 wrote:
What are D25 coils? Not familiar with that acronym.

Sorry, there skyjacker d25 coils , instead of using the leveling doughnuts on top of the coils like some do

[dadwolf2]

What are D25 coils? Not familiar with that acronym.

[okan-star]

thought the Bilstein 5100's were valved for more offroad use and not as much for "heavy" use??

The 4600 valved shocks dont come in longer lengths for lifted trucks
I have d25 coils on my truck that lift the front 2 1/2" for leveling and dual 5100`s, works good for my camper

[okan-star]

TheHardWay9 wrote:
How was your ride with those? I can see how they increase the payload capacity of the springs, but aren't you still limited by the GAWR of the axles themselves?

Ride loaded was real good no sway no sag , un loaded if you have them adjusted to engage more it can be harsher , if you hit a hole fast it will engage them and kind of jolt , much like the factory overloads do if your close to the bumpstops with a load
I dont remember right off but the GAWR for that axle is somthing like 10 or 11k pounds and the back of your truck weighs about 3000 lbs + or-
If your going by the dr tag thats somthing else
Your bumper height is probably not legal any more either:B

[dadwolf2]

Redsky wrote:


Shocks are easy to replace with heavy duty ones like the Rancho 9000 or Bilstein 5100 shocks. $200 plus labor for two for the rear. $300 plus labor unless you do the install.

I went with the 3750 rated ties to gain load capacity so it was worth the expense. I would not have done this only to get somewhat better road handling as the stock tires were OK overall.

I thought the Bilstein 5100's were valved for more offroad use and not as much for "heavy" use??

Load index 126 or better tires are hard to find. Seems like Nitto is one of the few available. Your findings about the tires are interesting. I've wondered if a person would notice any seat of the pants difference.

[TheHardWay9]

How was your ride with those? I can see how they increase the payload capacity of the springs, but aren't you still limited by the GAWR of the axles themselves?

[okan-star]

Id check the supersprings if I was you ,they will add payload capacity , stable loads will just engage the overloads faster
With supersprings they go over the top of the factory overloads and work with them to engage together when you load up . They are adjustable
The bumpstops dont hit anything anymore
I had them on a 03 Dodge 3500 dually with fact overloads , they worked great no sway
Watch the video on this link

http://www.sdtrucksprings.com/super-springs?zenid=c92766b814669eddaf1571f67cbb9ec4