Huge discrepancies

[MargaretB]

We have been looking at F-150s. Each time we find one that looks like a likely candidate, we call the dealership and ask about it, including the payload capacity. Four out of four people have given us numbers in the 1500#-1900# range, based on the manufacturer's website.

When we arrived to look at the trucks, every single one of them had a sticker in the door jamb that showed a payload capacity of less than 1250#. Every one.

So... I've read here, many times, that the door sticker is the number we should go by. But the mfr's websites are giving totally different numbers, and when we do the math we get a third number that bears no relationship to the other two.

So who should we believe? The sticker? The website? Our own math?

[AlbertaNewbie]

MargaretB wrote:

3oaks wrote:
I don't see any discrepancies just because the dealer doesn't have what you are looking for on their lot. Dealer's inventory usually consist of what they think their customers may want and will sell quickly. If buying new, order exactly the truck you want with the options you want, not what someone else thinks you may want. That is what I do.

The discrepancies lie between what the sticker says and how the math works out. I know the mfrs tend toward the conservative side to cover their bacon, but on one that we looked at, there was a 700# difference between the sticker and the website, and the sticker and the math.

The reason for the difference is payload is axle up, the curb weight includes the axle and the tires. The math will usually have a 300-600lb ddifference depending on the truck.

[TomG2]

rexlion wrote:
MargaretB, if you think you want to buy a high-payload F150, be sure to find and test drive it before deciding for certain. They will ride differently than the one you rode in. To get the higher payload, they have to use different springs and such; this will change the ride.

Good idea to try out anything before purchasing. Tow a trailer with a 250 or 2500 series pickup if you really want to feel the difference in security and control.

[rexlion]

MargaretB, if you think you want to buy a high-payload F150, be sure to find and test drive it before deciding for certain. They will ride differently than the one you rode in. To get the higher payload, they have to use different springs and such; this will change the ride.

[scotty1946]

I thought there was a difference in defining loaded weight and towing weight,

[MitchF150]

cekkk wrote:
MitchF150's stickers indicates passenger tires and 35 psi. How does that work with an HD claim? Certainly that would be an important factor in Ford rating the vehicle's carrying capacity, no? My truck's sticker wants 65 psi up front, 60 rear, for its booties.

Max PSI per the tire is 44 psi. The are also 20" tires, so the sidewalls are a lot shorter than even an 18" tire and really makes a difference IMO.

I wasn't sure how the tires would do because I've always run LT tires too. But after towing with them all summer, I don't see any reason to go to LT 20" tires.. I'm well under load on them and they handled fine.

Mitch

[TomG2]

"The devil is in the details". When a manufacturer says that a certain model can tow "Up to 11,000 pounds", what buyer is going to believe that the ones that look just like the one in the commercial may be overloaded at half that? I once purchased a 1500 that was "rated" to tow 9,500 pounds and I was very disappointed to find out it couldn't handle 7,500 comfortably and safely.

My suggestion is that people shopping for tow vehicles and trailers bring actual scale numbers or at least yellow sticker ratings to the forum to get some suggestions. There are three or four on here who can actually put a pencil to the numbers and come up with reasonable answers. Hear that Ron?

[dadmomh]

The OP did just purchase the trailer in the sig in the last couple of months, so that's a done deal. They spent a lot of time researching in order to make the best decision possible. IIRC, the Sequoia was purchased just about the time the TT purchase happened in order to have something ok to tow with. They are looking to make a change to a PU in order to feel better about the weights, which they are very concerned about at this point. Understand completely. They also want this PU to serve as a daily driver - grocery store pretty much and misc errands. They do not make big trips to Lowe's or HD and load up. They need safety with their new TT, comfort, affordability. Correct me if I'm wrong, but does that about sum it up? Also, they have no plans to do any upgrades to a larger TT, so what they find now should serve them for a long time. IMHO, opinions and suggestions need to be along the guidelines they've expressed. Other "just buy" or "go big" just serves to add to the confusion. They are trying to sort this out step by step.

[rexlion]

I would just use the Sequoia, pack light, travel with little or no water in the tanks, and not worry. Yes you will be very close on the payload of the Sequoia, but it will do the job. My last pickup was an '86 D150; I sold it in '98 and have been towing with minivans and SUVs ever since.

[rbpru]

It seems the big issue here is how much is too much.

Some will get nervous if they get within a few hundred pounds of the max cargo limit, others will easily accept a couple of hundred lbs. over with little concern.

Our TT and TV weight can vary a hundred pounds or more with just the normal variations in gas tank level, fire wood, black, gray and fresh water tank levels, amount of groceries, bedding and propane consumption to name a few.

If being close to the max cargo bothers you, then buy bigger.

[MargaretB]

We have a 22' Ultralight Tracer 230.

[MargaretB]

You almost have it right.While dealer added items will reduce payload in general that reduction will be negligible. What you really need to consider is that RV towing is like no other recreational towing activity. A boat,jet ski,or even a utility trailer will not impact the towing parameters in the way an RV trailer does. WE have not mentioned frontal area which is a parameter seldom mention but has a dramatic impact. In the end RV trailers are designed to be tongue heavy to ensure stability.

The heavy tongue suck up payload in a hurry like no other recreational trailer.
Unless one specifically seeks out and orders their 1/2 ton truck with specific increased payload packages if /when available. Most 1/2 ton trucks will be limited when towing an RV trailer.

Their really is not a huge discrepancy in the ratings, but there is discrepancy in understanding the ratings. There is also debate on the value of the ratings.
In the end either you believe the engineers and designers or you don't.

Your Sequoia is a nice truck but it is far from a great RV tow vehicle due to its lack of payload and soft suspension. I prefer to be totally relaxed while towing. I also don't want to be concerned about having too much cargo. I don't want to fear that having full tanks can affect my towing performance. I don't want to fear that everything must be just right in order to have a relaxed trip.

We all have are comfort level. I don't believe the sky will fall in one exceeds a rating. However I don't believe in ignoring the ratings either. A combo that is within ALL of its ratings will perform noticeably better than a combo that is not within its ratings.
Tow your trailer with your Sequoia, than tow it with a 3/4 ton vehicle with ample payload. The experience will be enlightening.

At some point you must decide what your priorities in a vehicle are and how dedicated you are to RV'ing. Only you can make that decision.

While research and discussion will help you make a determination, ultimately you hold your own cards.

Thanks for this reasoned response.

[MargaretB]

carringb wrote:

MargaretB wrote:


The dealer adds a little this and a little that - maybe a tow mirror and a bed-liner. They increase the curb weight, which reduces the difference between curb weight and GVWR, and supposedly reduces the mathematical computation of available payload.

But in each case, the differences between the sticker and the mathematical computation (GVWR minus curb weight) was huge - many hundreds of pounds, much more than the weight of the items the dealer/s may have added over time.

And if I understand this process correctly, if the sticker is the holy grail, then no one should ever add anything to the vehicle after it leaves the assembly line, because doing so will render the sticker incorrect.

Do I have that right?

The yellow sticker accounts for all factory options. The discrepancy is the published and advertised weights which all carry the "up to" disclaimer. Nobody says you can't add items to a truck. You just have to do your own math in relation to the yellow TREAD sticker. BTW - aftermarket upitters, like companies that install racks and bins, or RV builders, to have to revise the sticker to reflect the final "as-built" configuration.

And i'm not sure where this "Holy Grail" idea from. It's simply an easy way to identify the capacity of each truck as it leaves the factory. It's not legally binding to the dealer or the buyer. It's simply another tool to help you buy the vehicle you need.

If you really want to find out the capacities of new Ford trucks without looking at trucks on the lot, you can use this workbook to evaluate the affect to your desired options and configurations:
https://www.fleet.ford.com/truckbbas/topics/2014/14_TruckPayload_SB.pdf

I was using "holy grail" metaphorically, because every post I've seen says that this and this alone is the determinant of payload capacity. Even if the math doesn't add up, you ignore the math and go with the sticker.

[mdamerell]

One issue is most people buy pickups like the F150 cause they don't like driving little cars and so many trucks are now designed with engines,transmissions and rear ends for mpg. As mpg raises the load capacity/tow rating decreases. The new government mpg standards for fleets compounds this issue. The big 3 also figured out the their profit margin rides on the luxuries and upgraded interior packages. Why trucks come with auto and not manual transmissions standard. Why A/C and 4x4 trucks are so common. So if a "1/2 ton" pick averages around 8,200# GVWR (around 7,000# pre 2005) all the extras subtract from that, ei less payload. In the game of who can haul more for the PR Dept. (think Tundra towing space shuttle) the "1/2 ton" market has bleed over into the "3/4" market which was normally limited to 10,000# GVWR for non commercial registrations etc... So the "3/4 ton" in some ways was a castrated "1 ton" on paper for tax purposes.

I haul rear axles for GM and they stock 18 different axles for the 1500, 2500 and 3500 model trucks. Each axle will effect load and towing capacity.

You never stated what size trailer you were looking for. Find the trailer and shop the truck. A F150 and F250 are same body it just sits on a different frame, drive train and thus the F250 sits about 2" taller due to the stronger frame and drivetrain. If you get a F150 HD you will have the ride of a F250. Trust your math and don't rule out a F250 if price and need is there.

Also remember that boat trailers average a lower tongue weight (5-7%) than a travel trailer(12%) thus all the boats in the advertisements. So a tow rating of 9,000# might work for a boat but might only mean a 5,000# TT.

[Lantley]

MargaretB wrote:

camp-n-family wrote:

But the math is compelling. If you subtract the curb weight from the GVWR, you should get the payload, no? Math doesn't lie. So why is the sticker so much less? Where does the mfr. come up with these figures?

You are correct in that you get payload by subtracting the curb weight from GVWR. The discrepancies are due to the configurations and options. Most ads and salesmen will use the best case scenarios which sound best. A base model, regular cab, 2x4 can have 3k payload. A crew cab, Lariat, 4x4 will add a lot to the vehicle's curb weight, which subtracts directly from the payload.

You need to go by the sticker, they are legally mandated and are accurate. Keep in mind that sticker number also gets reduced by dealer added options like bed liners, side steps etc. The 2k+ payloads are rare to find on a dealer lot. You'll likely need to special order the tow and HD payload package. If you're going to go there you might as well get a 3/4 ton of the lot for less $.

I'm definitely not a mathematician, but I'm wondering about some things here.

The mfr. sets the payload, based on what he puts on the truck as it rolls down the line. That's the sticker.

The dealer adds a little this and a little that - maybe a tow mirror and a bed-liner. They increase the curb weight, which reduces the difference between curb weight and GVWR, and supposedly reduces the mathematical computation of available payload.

But in each case, the differences between the sticker and the mathematical computation (GVWR minus curb weight) was huge - many hundreds of pounds, much more than the weight of the items the dealer/s may have added over time.

And if I understand this process correctly, if the sticker is the holy grail, then no one should ever add anything to the vehicle after it leaves the assembly line, because doing so will render the sticker incorrect.

Do I have that right?

You almost have it right.While dealer added items will reduce payload in general that reduction will be negligible.
What you really need to consider is that RV towing is like no other recreational towing activity.
A boat,jet ski,or even a utility trailer will not impact the towing parameters in the way an RV trailer does. WE have not mentioned frontal area which is a parameter seldom mention but has a dramatic impact.
In the end RV trailers are designed to be tongue heavy to ensure stability.
The heavy tongue suck up payload in a hurry like no other recreational trailer.
Unless one specifically seeks out and orders their 1/2 ton truck with specific increased payload packages if /when available. Most 1/2 ton trucks will be limited when towing an RV trailer.
Their really is not a huge discrepancy in the ratings, but there is discrepancy in understanding the ratings. There is also debate on the value of the ratings.
In the end either you believe the engineers and designers or you don't.

Your Sequoia is a nice truck but it is far from a great RV tow vehicle due to its lack of payload and soft suspension.
I prefer to be totally relaxed while towing. I also don't want to be concerned about having too much cargo. I don't want to fear that having full tanks can affect my towing performance. I don't want to fear that everything must be just right in order to have a relaxed trip.
We all have are comfort level. I don't believe the sky will fall in one exceeds a rating. However I don't believe in ignoring the ratings either.
A combo that is within ALL of its ratings will perform noticeably better than a combo that is not within its ratings.
Tow your trailer with your Sequoia, than tow it with a 3/4 ton vehicle with ample payload. The experience will be enlightening.
At some point you must decide what your priorities in a vehicle are and how dedicated you are to RV'ing. Only you can make that decision.
While research and discussion will help you make a determination, ultimately you hold your own cards.

[carringb]

MargaretB wrote:


The dealer adds a little this and a little that - maybe a tow mirror and a bed-liner. They increase the curb weight, which reduces the difference between curb weight and GVWR, and supposedly reduces the mathematical computation of available payload.

But in each case, the differences between the sticker and the mathematical computation (GVWR minus curb weight) was huge - many hundreds of pounds, much more than the weight of the items the dealer/s may have added over time.

And if I understand this process correctly, if the sticker is the holy grail, then no one should ever add anything to the vehicle after it leaves the assembly line, because doing so will render the sticker incorrect.

Do I have that right?

The yellow sticker accounts for all factory options. The discrepancy is the published and advertised weights which all carry the "up to" disclaimer. Nobody says you can't add items to a truck. You just have to do your own math in relation to the yellow TREAD sticker. BTW - aftermarket upitters, like companies that install racks and bins, or RV builders, to have to revise the sticker to reflect the final "as-built" configuration.

And i'm not sure where this "Holy Grail" idea from. It's simply an easy way to identify the capacity of each truck as it leaves the factory. It's not legally binding to the dealer or the buyer. It's simply another tool to help you buy the vehicle you need.

If you really want to find out the capacities of new Ford trucks without looking at trucks on the lot, you can use this workbook to evaluate the affect to your desired options and configurations:
https://www.fleet.ford.com/truckbbas/topics/2014/14_TruckPayload_SB.pdf