LiFePO4 Converter Change?

[Ranger_Tim]

I just want to switch from lead acid to lithium, not upgrade wires and everything else. Finding a new replacement board for my WF-8955PEC seems to be complicated. Straight 14.6V continuous boost single phase vs. 14.6 boost and 13.4 idle dual phase approach, some have a switch for LA/Li, others are auto sensing, still others are Lithium only. Huge range of prices indicates there may be some poor quality fake/unauthorized parts out there. I don’t want to replace the entire thing, just the converter section.

Reading forum posts from many sites usually ends in discussions that go into the weeds quickly. Can anyone cut through it and keep it simple?

[otrfun]

Grit dog wrote:
^ Are single stage battery chargers of any flavor a thing anymore? Whether talking converters, typical automotive chargers, marine chargers or small power equipment chargers/maintainers…
Every charger I’ve bought for the last 20lbs years has been a smart charger (well except the WFCO, it’s the Dollar Store of battery chargers and it came with the last RV I bought and it purports to be a smart charger as well. It’s just learning disabled…hence the recommendations here to get something else).

In the lead-cell world, I agree.

In the lifepo4 world, not so much. Look closely at the "lithium/lifepo4 approved" converters and chargers now on the market. Many are single-stage (single voltage) 14.6v chargers. For instance, Progressive Dynamic, one of the largest OEM converter/charger manufacturers for the RV market, didn't start offering multi-stage (multi-voltage) lifepo4 converters/chargers until a year or so ago. There's still a large inventory of single-stage Progressive Dynamic lifepo4 converters still being sold.

[pianotuna]

power max is top of the line.

[Grit_dog]

3 tons wrote:
Converting to an expensive LFP then trying to get by with a marginal charger seems a bit odd to me…However, regardless of one’s charger method of choice (lots of options here, including attended CV/CC* charging - solar or shore, what I do…), rather than the impulse towards new hardware, a better plan would be to start out with an basic understanding of LFP charging parameters, then develop a ‘best practice’ strategy that works best for you - in the end this might even suggest an unattended plug and play charger…JMO

*(constant current, constant voltage)

3 tons

He don’t know what he wants. Simple and cut to the chase, yet need more info, after the logical and easiest solutions have been presented?
This thread is a fishing expedition and it’s hooked a few good ones so far….

[3_tons]

Converting to an expensive LFP then trying to get by with a marginal charger seems a bit odd to me…However, regardless of one’s charger method of choice (lots of options here, including attended CV/CC* charging - solar or shore, what I do…), rather than the impulse towards new hardware, a better plan would be to start out with an basic understanding of LFP charging parameters, then develop a ‘best practice’ strategy that works best for you - in the end this might even suggest an unattended plug and play charger…JMO

*(constant current, constant voltage)

3 tons

[time2roll]

Ranger Tim wrote:
Interesting to read these responses. Not doing anything yet until I get more info (and money).

What does the usage look like?

Mostly plugged in with maybe a rare overnight on battery?

Mostly off grid? Recharge with generator? How many watts solar?

The WFCO will get the RV out a few times and the LFP will perform better than the original lead-acid battery even with the existing WFCO.

[Ranger_Tim]

Interesting to read these responses. Not doing anything yet until I get more info (and money).

[wanderingbob]

The wico adapter for me works fine , easy switchout , 5 wires , easypeezy !

[StirCrazy]

otrfun wrote:

Ranger Tim wrote:
I just want to switch from lead acid to lithium, not upgrade wires and everything else. Finding a new replacement board for my WF-8955PEC seems to be complicated. Straight 14.6V continuous boost single phase vs. 14.6 boost and 13.4 idle dual phase approach, some have a switch for LA/Li, others are auto sensing, still others are Lithium only. Huge range of prices indicates there may be some poor quality fake/unauthorized parts out there. I don’t want to replace the entire thing, just the converter section.

Reading forum posts from many sites usually ends in discussions that go into the weeds quickly. Can anyone cut through it and keep it simple?

It's unfortunate you have a WFCO. Even with significantly discharged batteries, they're notorious for rarely charging in the higher voltage bulk mode. They tend to stay in 13.6v absorption mode, which increases charge times. The WFCO you currently have will safely charge a 12v lifepo4 battery to 98-99% SOC at 13.6v. However, it'll take much longer to do so vs. a converter with the same current rating charging at 14.4v or 14.6v.

You may want to look at the Powermax PM3 MBA series converters. They're designed to be a plug and play replacement for the lower tray 8900 series converters that are used in many WFCO power centers. They're lifepo4 compatible and can be switched to operate in either a single-stage (power supply) mode or a standard 3-stage charging mode. The single-stage (power supply) or 3-stage bulk mode voltage can be adjusted from 13.0 - 16.5v. Since there's always ongoing debate about the optimum charge voltage for a 12v lifepo4 battery, this feature allows you to accommodate whatever lifepo4 charge voltage happens to be the "best" this week, next month or next year.

Regardless which brand converter you eventually decide on, highly recommend *not* purchasing a single stage 14.6v converter. If you inadvertently float a 12v lifepo4 battery at 14.6v (100% SOC) for long periods of time you may risk damaging the cells. Purchase a 2-3 stage converter. A 2-3 stage converter will always decrease charge voltage (go into absorption/float mode) so you never have to be concerned about overcharging and damaging the cells. Your expensive lifepo4 battery will thank you.

How do you like the Powermax? I just came upon this one the other day
https://powermaxconverters.com/product/pm3-lithium-series/ and I am wondering how there quality is compared to the PD. I kinda like how you can adjust the single voltage output then switch to two or three stage and it sets those values accordingly. you could use two stage at 14.6 and then have it drop to 13.6 on the second stage. I still have to look and see how long it will stay in stage 1 for before switching to stage two and make sure it it is long enough for a balance when I want to though.

[Grit_dog]

^Which is just fine….

[StirCrazy]

bighatnohorse wrote:

Ranger Tim wrote:
Can anyone cut through it and keep it simple?

Sure.
This one: https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07DP3J3FD/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_search_asin_title?ie=UTF8&psc=1
Remove old, replace with new. Plug and play. 14.4 volts max charge.
You're done.

the description says 14.6V for that one.

[Grit_dog]

^ Are single stage battery chargers of any flavor a thing anymore? Whether talking converters, typical automotive chargers, marine chargers or small power equipment chargers/maintainers…
Every charger I’ve bought for the last 20lbs years has been a smart charger (well except the WFCO, it’s the Dollar Store of battery chargers and it came with the last RV I bought and it purports to be a smart charger as well. It’s just learning disabled…hence the recommendations here to get something else).

[otrfun]

Ranger Tim wrote:
I just want to switch from lead acid to lithium, not upgrade wires and everything else. Finding a new replacement board for my WF-8955PEC seems to be complicated. Straight 14.6V continuous boost single phase vs. 14.6 boost and 13.4 idle dual phase approach, some have a switch for LA/Li, others are auto sensing, still others are Lithium only. Huge range of prices indicates there may be some poor quality fake/unauthorized parts out there. I don’t want to replace the entire thing, just the converter section.

Reading forum posts from many sites usually ends in discussions that go into the weeds quickly. Can anyone cut through it and keep it simple?

It's unfortunate you have a WFCO. Even with significantly discharged batteries, they're notorious for rarely charging in the higher voltage bulk mode. They tend to stay in 13.6v absorption mode, which increases charge times. The WFCO you currently have will safely charge a 12v lifepo4 battery to 98-99% SOC at 13.6v. However, it'll take much longer to do so vs. a converter with the same current rating charging at 14.4v or 14.6v.

You may want to look at the Powermax PM3 MBA series converters. They're designed to be a plug and play replacement for the lower tray 8900 series converters that are used in many WFCO power centers. They're lifepo4 compatible and can be switched to operate in either a single-stage (power supply) mode or a standard 3-stage charging mode. The single-stage (power supply) or 3-stage bulk mode voltage can be adjusted from 13.0 - 16.5v. Since there's always ongoing debate about the optimum charge voltage for a 12v lifepo4 battery, this feature allows you to accommodate whatever lifepo4 charge voltage happens to be the "best" this week, next month or next year.

Regardless which brand converter you eventually decide on, highly recommend *not* purchasing a single stage 14.6v converter. If you inadvertently float a 12v lifepo4 battery at 14.6v (100% SOC) for long periods of time you may risk damaging the cells. Purchase a 2-3 stage converter. A 2-3 stage converter will always decrease charge voltage (go into absorption/float mode) so you never have to be concerned about overcharging and damaging the cells. Your expensive lifepo4 battery will thank you.

[StirCrazy]

Grit dog wrote:

Ranger Tim wrote:
WFCO makes an auto-sensing replacement kit that is two stage. I think I’m gonna order it.

Don’t. Unless you know something about WFCo we don’t. Traditionally they are borderline junk.

and your being nice 😉

I won't have WFCO in anything I own anymore. the last three units I have had they were ripped out and changed to PD before they left the lot. I do have a couple WFCO's laying around though.. I use them to power my 12V winch in the garage...

[Grit_dog]

Ranger Tim wrote:
WFCO makes an auto-sensing replacement kit that is two stage. I think I’m gonna order it.

Don’t. Unless you know something about WFCo we don’t. Traditionally they are borderline junk.

[Grit_dog]

pianotuna wrote:
Ranger Tim,

14.6 is right on the edge of too much. 14.4 volts may increase life span.

Yet even the beloved and revered Battleborn recommends up to 14.8. And says 14.4-14.6 is reccomended.

How much lifespan will be lost charging at 14.6 vs 14.4?

(Hint…this is another non issue that you’re trying to confuse the OP with…)