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kevin79
Explorer
Explorer
I am in the market for a travel trailer. I currently have an 8ft Jayco Popup that is way too small. I have a family of 7 (2 adults, children age 15, 13, 11, 3 and 1. The 1 year old will sleep in a pack-n-play) so I'm looking for something to accommodate them. I would really like a used trailer to keep costs down. I saw a 2003 Wildwood 25EX online and like the idea of having a queen bed and four bunks. I can't find the weight of it (both dry and GVWR) so I don't know if it will be too heavy.I have a 2003 Chevrolet Express Conversion van with a 5.3L V8 engine with a tow capacity of 6400lbs. Tongue weight can be up to 1500lbs.

Here are my questions.
-Can someone give me the weight, both dry and GVWR of a Wildwood 25EX?
-Does anyone have any recommendations for other models to look at?

Thanks in advance.
24 REPLIES 24

bobndot
Explorer II
Explorer II
tatest sounds like he's got it right . You're going to need more truck.

tatest
Explorer II
Explorer II
The numbers you are looking at are probably "Maximum Tow Capacity" for the original van, at 6400 most likely from a GCWR of about 12,000 pounds. The 1500 on the hitch is probably a rating for the hitch.

What you load in the van (e.g. seven people, their stuff, and everything the upfitter added) further reduces "tow capacity" and tongue weight of the trailer has to fit into what is left of what the van can carry.

The two critical numbers are GVWR (maximum for weight of loaded vehicle) and GCWR (maximum weight of the whole towing combination).

GCWR will be determined by engine, transmission, drive axle size, and axle ratios. With the 5.3 V8 this was usually 12,000 pounds with the standard 3.42 axle for the Express 1500 series, 13,000 pounds with standard 3.73 axle for Express 2500/3500 vans. Axle options might change this (i.e the 3.73 option for 5.3 V8 on Express 1500 gets you 13,000 GCWR).

GVWR is determined primarily by suspension components (including wheels and tires) and was in the range of 6200 to 7300 pounds for Express 1500, with the 7300 rating most often used by conversion van upfitters. Express 2500 and 3500 in that era got 8600 and 9600 pound GVWR, respectively, as their highest ratings.

So what you can do will depend in whether your van was built on Express 1500, 2500, or 3500 (the later most unlikely for a passenger conversion). You need to know those two numbers, GCWR and GVWR, then weigh your van with the all the people and stuff it is going to carry. Actual tow capacity will be GCWR - weight of loaded van. Maximum tongue weight will be GVWR - actual weight of loaded van.

Example of where I am with my 2102 E-350 wagon. GVWR 9500 pounds, GCWR 13,000 with 5.4 V8 and 3.73 axle. "Maximum Tow Rating" is listed 6700 pounds, assuming empty van weighs 6300 with full fuel and driver. Thus alone with no load, I can pull a 6700 pound trailer and have 3000+ pounds of carrying capacity to handle whatever the tongue weight.

If I load up with my daughter, her husband, two granddaughters, and the 300 pounds of luggage they'll bring with them, and another 100 pounds of camping gear, my loaded weight goes up about 7300 pounds, so my remaining towing capacity is down to 5700 pounds, and I'm down to 2200 pounds of load capacity to handle tongue weight.

If I load both daughters and their families (eight persons) with luggage, my load goes up to about 1600 pounds, for a loaded weight of 7900 pounds, my towing capacity is now down to 5100 pounds, and have 1600 pounds of load capacity to handle tongue weight.

But if this was a lighter E-150 wagon of earlier vintage, with 7300 GVWR, 12,000 GCWR and 5500 empty weight, empty towing capacity is 6500 and I have 1800 pounds capacity to handle tongue weight. With my smaller family load bringing loaded weight up to 6500 pounds, towing capacity down to 5500, and I would have 800 pounds to deal with tongue weight. With my larger family load, loaded weight goes up to 7100, towing capacity down to 4900, and I have only 200 pounds left for tongue weight. Working out these numbers is why I passed on buying an 8 passenger E-150 and got a 12 passenger E-350 (and took out that 200 pound rear seat).

My hypothetical E-150 case is likely close to your situation, making it so important to know exactly where you are on weights and ratings. If your conversion is on an Express 1500, you may be marginal for carrying capacity to handle the tongue weight, and with your van loaded the remaining towing capacity has probably melted down to about 5000 pounds, or a little less. Not much less, or your van would be overloaded. If it was built on Express 2500 with the 5.3 V8, your towing capacity loaded is still probably close to 5000, but you are less likely to be close to max weight for the van itself.

Your best tow vehicle option for a family that size today is the Express 3500 passenger van, with 6.0 V8, which will have 15,000 or 16,000 GCWR (depending on model year/transmission) and 9500-9600 GWVR. This comes in 12 and 15 passenger versions, and the rear seat is easy to remove for 8 or 11 passenger capacity and lots of luggage space. Loaded to 8500 pounds you would still be good for 7500 pounds of trailer. Not as nice as a conversion van maybe, but rated for 200 pounds of passenger in each seat position.

Prices will depend on age and mileage; early 2013 they were about $20K for a year-old van coming out of rental service with 20-30,000 miles, they've gone up since because discontinuation of the E-series made used vans with V8 engines a lot more precious.
Tom Test
Itasca Spirit 29B

drsteve
Explorer
Explorer
You need to weigh your van. I assume the 6400 lb tow weight is from the owner's manual? And the tongue weight rating is that of the hitch receiver? If so, neither is an accurate gauge of what your van will do.

A conversion van's door sticker vehicle weight may or may not include all the extra stuff the upfitter added to it after it left the Chevy factory. What you will need to do is weigh the vehicle, and subtract that amount from the GVWR on the sticker--that number does not change. This will tell you for certain how much cargo you can add to the van, including passengers, gear, the weight of the hitch, and the tongue weight of the trailer.

1500 lb sound like the weight limit on your receiver, and the van may or may not (probably not) be able to carry that much. I used to tow with a conversion, and I can tell you a significant amount of your payload is already taken. You will want LT tires and a transmission cooler if you don't already have them.
2006 Silverado 1500HD Crew Cab 2WD 6.0L 3.73 8600 GVWR
2018 Coachmen Catalina Legacy Edition 223RBS
1991 Palomino Filly PUP

bid_time
Nomad II
Nomad II
Oasisbob wrote:
We have a family of 6 and always take extra kids along. I have learned that as kids reach teen age years they want to tent it outside regardless of weather. for what it's worth
I haven't found that to be the case. If any of my kids want to sleep in a tent, I would let them. That has happened exactly one time in 14 years of camping. I provide a nice and dry, climate controlled, sort of soft bed; they seem to choose that option over the damp, cold hard ground (even with a air mattress that usually won't stay inflated all night).

kevin79
Explorer
Explorer
Oasisbob wrote:
We have a family of 6 and always take extra kids along. I have learned that as kids reach teen age years they want to tent it outside regardless of weather. for what it's worth


My 13 and 15 year old doesn't have any interest in staying in a tent. The 11 year old might but we won't let her stay in one by herself.

kevin79
Explorer
Explorer
camp-n-family wrote:
kevin79 wrote:
The GVWR of the van?


The payload rating. The drivers door should have a tire loading sticker that says "the combined weight of occupants and cargo should never exceed xxxx". That is your payload. It is the amount of weight of everything that can be added to the vehicle, including tongue weight, before you exceed the GVWR.

If you don't have that sticker I would suggest loading the van up with everyone and going to a scale. Subtract the loaded weight from your GVWR and what you have left is the remaking payload for the tongue weight.

Figure tongue weight to be around 13 percent of the loaded trailers weight.


Thanks, I will do that. I don't remember seeing a sticker with the payload rating. I will bring it to a scale then.

Oasisbob
Explorer
Explorer
We have a family of 6 and always take extra kids along. I have learned that as kids reach teen age years they want to tent it outside regardless of weather. for what it's worth
Oasis Bob
Wonderful wife 3 of 4 kids at home. 1 proudly serving in USAF
2018 Ford Explorer
2001 Bantam Trail Lite B-19

HAPPY TRAILS:)

camp-n-family
Explorer
Explorer
kevin79 wrote:
The GVWR of the van?


The payload rating. The drivers door should have a tire loading sticker that says "the combined weight of occupants and cargo should never exceed xxxx". That is your payload. It is the amount of weight of everything that can be added to the vehicle, including tongue weight, before you exceed the GVWR.

If you don't have that sticker I would suggest loading the van up with everyone and going to a scale. Subtract the loaded weight from your GVWR and what you have left is the remaking payload for the tongue weight.

Figure tongue weight to be around 13 percent of the loaded trailers weight.
'17 Ram 2500 Crewcab Laramie CTD
'13 Keystone Bullet Premier 310BHPR
Hitched by Hensley

kevin79
Explorer
Explorer
The GVWR of the van?

camp-n-family
Explorer
Explorer
A quick google search shows trailer weights around 4800lbs dry and 680lbs tongue weight. Actual delivered weights will likely be higher. Once it is loaded I think it will be too much for your van.

I'm assuming the van is a 1500 series? You need to consider the van weights before you decide. What is the vans' payload rating? Should be listed on the drivers door sticker. Subtract the weight of all the passengers and anything you may travel in the van with. What's left is available for the trailer tongue weight. Might not be enough.

Also consider that the tow rating (before the new standards) was calculated with only 150lbs for a driver in the vehicle. Any weight added to the van above that decreases the tow rating pound for pound.
'17 Ram 2500 Crewcab Laramie CTD
'13 Keystone Bullet Premier 310BHPR
Hitched by Hensley