Lost Title

[DAVMARINE1975]

I just bought a 1984 Citation 30ft travel trailer. I am a newbie to the rv world. It's in very nice condition and the price was right. They said they lost the title no big deal just apply for duplicate but they didn't get a title. Anyway I've tried two different tag offices with two different stories. Whoever titled it last has to apply for duplicate no one knows who that is. I don't want to be stuck I want the blame thing. Anybody have any suggestions on getting a duplicate title? Any help would be greatly appreciated. Thanks. RV NEWBIE

[Thom02099]

DAVMARINE1975 wrote:
I couldn't find any other vin for the camper any suggestions on where to look?

A prior suggestion was to contact a local LEO. Taking it a step further, in a goodly number of states, within the State Police/Highway Patrol/State Patrol and also within Sheriff's Departments and larger Police Departments, there are specialists. VIN Inspectors, Truck Inspectors, Commercial Inspectors are some of their titles. These officers know vehicles inside and out...literally. They know where the "hidden" VINS are. Yes, practically every vehicle made, pre- and post-1981 (when VIN standardization took effect) has a hidden VIN somewhere in or on the vehicle. This may be a way to proceed in order to get the VIN on your trailer. There may be a charge for the service; small price to pay to get the information you need.

[WTP-GC]

Gdetrailer wrote:

WTP-GC wrote:

troubledwaters wrote:

WTP-GC wrote:

Gdetrailer wrote:


To some folks, unlike YOU $1500 for a 33 yr old travel trailer missing it's most valuable part which IS the title is a very expensive mistake and well worth getting the money back.

If I sell you something "As-Is" with the expressed statement of NO TITLE AVAILABLE, then I will not give you your money back no matter how much you cry about it.

So apparently to you, the $1500 transaction is "Much Ado"; contrary to your previous snarky remarks. In your eyes, You've unloaded a possibly stolen, untitled, white elephant and ain't giving the money back no way, no how.

Come on man, people lose titles everyday.

Total BS and you know it.

Your "perspective" is from FLORIDA, FYI, FLORIDA IS ONLY ONE STATE OUT OF 50, perhaps FL doesn't care.. BUT OTHER states DO CARE and REQUIRE a title to PROVE YOU OWN IT.. Otherwise anyone can simply pull up to YOUR trailer, haul it off and YOU are out of luck and they can reregister it in their name..

I can't help that FL does not care two bits about titles according to you, but I would not bet on it.

People sell things everyday without title.


While it is not illegal in PA to sell a trailer without a title, THE CATCH IS IT CAN NEVER BE LEGALLY TOWED ON PUBLIC ROADS.

That catch makes a travel trailer without a title as useless as a doorstop!

The only legal way a travel trailer can be towed on public roads in PA is if you have a proper clear title, the title must be signed over in front of a Notary at the time of sale in order to be eligible to register it for a plate.

Perhaps in FL you might be able to buy a trailer with no title and get it registered and plated for use on public highways.. But I also highly doubt it is as easy as you say it is, otherwise what would stop folks from randomly stealing a trailer and registering it as theirs?


It takes one heck of a leap in perception to automatically believe its stolen property.

RV trailers DO get stolen, happens more than you would think, sometimes for scrap, sometimes to resale, sometimes for meth shacks..

Ever wonder why folks buy tongue locks, chain tires and wheels, remove a wheel, place something in front of trailer hard to move?

Takes one heck of an imagination to believe 100% of the worlds population is a straight shooter and would never steal something or one must have their head stuck in a sand dune..

I've got an old aluminum boat sitting at our farm that we haven't had a title or registration for in years, and I can assure you its not stolen.

Good for you, I live in a very rural area but I HAVE had $25 bicycles stolen off a back porch and that was back in the 1970s..

I buy auction items all the time, and in many cases the description states "no title available, bill of sale only". That international auction company must clearly be in the business of dealing in stolen goods.

Auction companies are only in the business of selling SOMEONE ELSE'S stuff, they do not take time to review every item to verify if it is legit or not. Nor do they warrant or guarantee anything. You the buyer mus decide whether to gamble or not with your money.

You take your chances, sometimes you win and sometimes you lay a goose egg.

And why does the concept of "buyer beware" seemingly not apply in this case?

Most folks who never have delt with buying/selling used TITLED things like vehicles and trailers often UNDERESTIMATE just how much hassle it can be without a title or the importance of having a GOOD CLEAR TITLE OF OWNERSHIP.

The OP took a LEAP OF FAITH that a lost title was not a problem and could simply apply for a lost title. Not sure if that came from the seller or they were naive.

The OP SHOULD HAVE CONTACTED THEIR OWN STATE DMV ON HOW TO GET A LOST TITLE REPLACED BEFORE HANDING OVER ANY MONEY. The OP could have avoided this pit fall by either walking away or having the current owner get their ducks in line and get a title.. Obviously the seller KNEW that getting a replacement title was a hassle OR IMPOSSIBLE, otherwise they would have done the PROPER THING and got it taken care of BEFORE ATTEMPTING TO SELL.

This aint Wal-Mart, and you don't get to return something just because you don't want it anymore. I sold a truck to someone a while back, and it leaked a little oil. So if the day after the sale, he climbs in and hits the road, and the engine blows because it was low on oil, should I give him his money back? Sorry, no warranty offered. Sold as-is, where-is.

Walmart does not "always" take things back, especially without receipts now days.

As far as your truck sale, well you sold it with a title and that IS what the thread is about, not whether it has a oil leak or a blown engine. You are simply redirecting the thread to mold it to your way..

I respect that the OP hasn't tried to deflect blame in this case, but the truth is they should have addressed the title issue PRIOR to making the purchase.

In this I do agree with you and I always point this out EVERY TIME to folks who have posted the same issue as the OPs. One must be aware of how their state handles legal documents of ownership like titles BEFORE ENTERING ANY SALE OR HANDING OVER MONEY.

Pretty much the rest of your post I cannot agree with.

See my comments in red above..

I could, of course, humor you with a full rebuttal of your post and explain why you're either twisting words or otherwise just trying to foster an argument...but I'll refer only to your first statement where you apparently don't believe people lose titles.

Stroll down to your local health department and see how many people are there to obtain a copy of their (or their children's) birth certificate or immunization records. Maybe you should visit your local DMV and see how many people are there just for a replacement license. As an employer, I can assure you that not everyone knows where their social security card is. All of those items are far more important than a title for a 30+ year old camper. So yeah, people never lose or misplace titles :R

For heck's sake, it took a recent POTUS several months to find his birth certificate.

An old man traded a boat for a camper ump-teen years ago, probably traded with someone he knew, and since he never registered it, he could have cared less about the title. But yeah, my first guess would be that its stolen too :R

[Gdetrailer]

WTP-GC wrote:

troubledwaters wrote:

WTP-GC wrote:

Gdetrailer wrote:


To some folks, unlike YOU $1500 for a 33 yr old travel trailer missing it's most valuable part which IS the title is a very expensive mistake and well worth getting the money back.

If I sell you something "As-Is" with the expressed statement of NO TITLE AVAILABLE, then I will not give you your money back no matter how much you cry about it.

So apparently to you, the $1500 transaction is "Much Ado"; contrary to your previous snarky remarks. In your eyes, You've unloaded a possibly stolen, untitled, white elephant and ain't giving the money back no way, no how.

Come on man, people lose titles everyday.

Total BS and you know it.

Your "perspective" is from FLORIDA, FYI, FLORIDA IS ONLY ONE STATE OUT OF 50, perhaps FL doesn't care.. BUT OTHER states DO CARE and REQUIRE a title to PROVE YOU OWN IT.. Otherwise anyone can simply pull up to YOUR trailer, haul it off and YOU are out of luck and they can reregister it in their name..

I can't help that FL does not care two bits about titles according to you, but I would not bet on it.

People sell things everyday without title.


While it is not illegal in PA to sell a trailer without a title, THE CATCH IS IT CAN NEVER BE LEGALLY TOWED ON PUBLIC ROADS.

That catch makes a travel trailer without a title as useless as a doorstop!

The only legal way a travel trailer can be towed on public roads in PA is if you have a proper clear title, the title must be signed over in front of a Notary at the time of sale in order to be eligible to register it for a plate.

Perhaps in FL you might be able to buy a trailer with no title and get it registered and plated for use on public highways.. But I also highly doubt it is as easy as you say it is, otherwise what would stop folks from randomly stealing a trailer and registering it as theirs?


It takes one heck of a leap in perception to automatically believe its stolen property.

RV trailers DO get stolen, happens more than you would think, sometimes for scrap, sometimes to resale, sometimes for meth shacks..

Ever wonder why folks buy tongue locks, chain tires and wheels, remove a wheel, place something in front of trailer hard to move?

Takes one heck of an imagination to believe 100% of the worlds population is a straight shooter and would never steal something or one must have their head stuck in a sand dune..

I've got an old aluminum boat sitting at our farm that we haven't had a title or registration for in years, and I can assure you its not stolen.

Good for you, I live in a very rural area but I HAVE had $25 bicycles stolen off a back porch and that was back in the 1970s..

I buy auction items all the time, and in many cases the description states "no title available, bill of sale only". That international auction company must clearly be in the business of dealing in stolen goods.

Auction companies are only in the business of selling SOMEONE ELSE'S stuff, they do not take time to review every item to verify if it is legit or not. Nor do they warrant or guarantee anything. You the buyer mus decide whether to gamble or not with your money.

You take your chances, sometimes you win and sometimes you lay a goose egg.

And why does the concept of "buyer beware" seemingly not apply in this case?

Most folks who never have delt with buying/selling used TITLED things like vehicles and trailers often UNDERESTIMATE just how much hassle it can be without a title or the importance of having a GOOD CLEAR TITLE OF OWNERSHIP.

The OP took a LEAP OF FAITH that a lost title was not a problem and could simply apply for a lost title. Not sure if that came from the seller or they were naive.

The OP SHOULD HAVE CONTACTED THEIR OWN STATE DMV ON HOW TO GET A LOST TITLE REPLACED BEFORE HANDING OVER ANY MONEY. The OP could have avoided this pit fall by either walking away or having the current owner get their ducks in line and get a title.. Obviously the seller KNEW that getting a replacement title was a hassle OR IMPOSSIBLE, otherwise they would have done the PROPER THING and got it taken care of BEFORE ATTEMPTING TO SELL.

This aint Wal-Mart, and you don't get to return something just because you don't want it anymore. I sold a truck to someone a while back, and it leaked a little oil. So if the day after the sale, he climbs in and hits the road, and the engine blows because it was low on oil, should I give him his money back? Sorry, no warranty offered. Sold as-is, where-is.

Walmart does not "always" take things back, especially without receipts now days.

As far as your truck sale, well you sold it with a title and that IS what the thread is about, not whether it has a oil leak or a blown engine. You are simply redirecting the thread to mold it to your way..

I respect that the OP hasn't tried to deflect blame in this case, but the truth is they should have addressed the title issue PRIOR to making the purchase.

In this I do agree with you and I always point this out EVERY TIME to folks who have posted the same issue as the OPs. One must be aware of how their state handles legal documents of ownership like titles BEFORE ENTERING ANY SALE OR HANDING OVER MONEY.

Pretty much the rest of your post I cannot agree with.

See my comments in red above..

[troubledwaters]

WTP-GC wrote:
...It takes one heck of a leap in perception to automatically believe its stolen property...

I don't automatically leap to anything. Got two real big clues though:
- no title
- no vin on the thing

Most people would walk away on clue one. Clue two is just asking for trouble.

[drsteve]

You can get a surety bond.

Clicky

[WTP-GC]

troubledwaters wrote:

WTP-GC wrote:

Gdetrailer wrote:


To some folks, unlike YOU $1500 for a 33 yr old travel trailer missing it's most valuable part which IS the title is a very expensive mistake and well worth getting the money back.

If I sell you something "As-Is" with the expressed statement of NO TITLE AVAILABLE, then I will not give you your money back no matter how much you cry about it.

So apparently to you, the $1500 transaction is "Much Ado"; contrary to your previous snarky remarks. In your eyes, You've unloaded a possibly stolen, untitled, white elephant and ain't giving the money back no way, no how.

Come on man, people lose titles everyday. People sell things everyday without title. It takes one heck of a leap in perception to automatically believe its stolen property. I've got an old aluminum boat sitting at our farm that we haven't had a title or registration for in years, and I can assure you its not stolen. I buy auction items all the time, and in many cases the description states "no title available, bill of sale only". That international auction company must clearly be in the business of dealing in stolen goods.

And why does the concept of "buyer beware" seemingly not apply in this case? This aint Wal-Mart, and you don't get to return something just because you don't want it anymore. I sold a truck to someone a while back, and it leaked a little oil. So if the day after the sale, he climbs in and hits the road, and the engine blows because it was low on oil, should I give him his money back? Sorry, no warranty offered. Sold as-is, where-is.

I respect that the OP hasn't tried to deflect blame in this case, but the truth is they should have addressed the title issue PRIOR to making the purchase.

[troubledwaters]

WTP-GC wrote:

Gdetrailer wrote:


To some folks, unlike YOU $1500 for a 33 yr old travel trailer missing it's most valuable part which IS the title is a very expensive mistake and well worth getting the money back.

If I sell you something "As-Is" with the expressed statement of NO TITLE AVAILABLE, then I will not give you your money back no matter how much you cry about it.

So apparently to you, the $1500 transaction is "Much Ado"; contrary to your previous snarky remarks. In your eyes, You've unloaded a possibly stolen, untitled, white elephant and ain't giving the money back no way, no how.

[WTP-GC]

Gdetrailer wrote:


To some folks, unlike YOU $1500 for a 33 yr old travel trailer missing it's most valuable part which IS the title is a very expensive mistake and well worth getting the money back.

If I sell you something "As-Is" with the expressed statement of NO TITLE AVAILABLE, then I will not give you your money back no matter how much you cry about it.

[drsteve]

DAVMARINE1975 wrote:
I couldn't find any other vin for the camper any suggestions on where to look?

There may be a tag on the inside of the frame near the front, rather than the more common location, on top of the coupler. They got creative back in the day...

[Gdetrailer]

WTP-GC wrote:
The sky has fully fallen on this thread...
Fix it before you get hit with stolen property charges...laughable
Return it and get your money back...hilarious
Make the seller get the title...yeah I'm sure he'll get right on that
Go back to the manufacturer...now that's a good one (Forest River couldn't even tell me what decal profile I have on my 2005 unit when I wanted to replace them)
Homemade title is good till you get pulled over...now that's about a one in a billion chance

Sure is a lot to do about nothing for a $1500 transaction.

To some folks, unlike YOU $1500 for a 33 yr old travel trailer missing it's most valuable part which IS the title is a very expensive mistake and well worth getting the money back.

Additionally unlike Florida where YOU are from, MANY states like my state of PA getting a homemade title issued is no easy task nor cheap.

At the minimum, the OP will have to produce a "Bill of Sale" and or additional ways of proving some sort of legal ownership, fork out a bunch of money in fees, will most likely have to have some sort of "inspection" whether by a LEO or by a mechanic all in the hopes that the DMV does not turn down the application (which IS a REAL POSSIBILITY if not all the rules are followed or proof of ownership is weak) for what amounts to a trailer that even with a GOOD title in hand is worth not much more than scrap material ($500-$800).

OP paid to much for such an old trailer even if they had a good title..

In my neck of the woods just a FRAME of a travel trailer with a GOOD TITLE is worth $500-$600. Folks tend to buy frames with titles to build utility trailers quite often around here because the DMV rules requires significant documentation on where and how much all the material came from that went into the trailer..

In PA, must have all the receipts (not Bill of sale) for things like axles and frame materials. Must take trailer to a PA inspection station (can't figure this one out on how you can legally move the trailer without flat bedding it)to have an inspection mechanic inspect and fill out paperwork. Inspection mechanic must fill out and send all paperwork including four photos of the trailer to the DMV along with state fees plus mechanics fee. Then you must wait for the DMV to accept or deny.

That must happen before you ever get to apply for a plate and registration..

Yeah, that is really worth the hassle, aggravation and cost for a 33 yr old trailer :h

Some states like FL are lax and some states are not..

[nineoaks2004]

DAVMARINE1975 wrote:
I'm not giving up yet. I've been to two tag offices a couple more I can try. I checked the vin off the tongue of the trailer but can't get it to come up.

Original title could be from another state too, if so it might not come up for you

[Bobbo]

Mark and Linda wrote:
I live in Tennessee also. Trailer tags are not required but I have a utility and my travel trailer with tags on them. When I bought my Utility trailer from a well known supply company I got a title. I took it to the clerk's office to get it put in my name...hence I had to have tag's for it. $14.50 a year isn't nothing. I was thinking, how many others who own boat trailers, etc and don't tag them, do they have a title? Hope you get it straightened out! It can be a mess.....

I'm also in TN. While utility trailers (and tow dollies) don't need a tag/title, travel trailers definitely DO need a tag/title. (When I had a tow dolly, I got a tag/title for it the first year so I would have clear title. I never renewed the tag, but kept the title.)

https://www.shelbycountytn.gov/585/Trailers

Shelby County Tennessee Website wrote:
Trailers
Camping Trailers
All camping trailers, regardless of dimensions, must be titled and registered, except those that collapse or fold down.

Utility Trailers
The State of Tennessee does not require individuals to title and license utility trailers for private use, as long as you are pulling the trailer behind a Tennessee-licensed vehicle. Some states do require a proper registration. Therefore, it is advisable to title and license your utility trailer if you plan to pull through other states.

[WTP-GC]

The sky has fully fallen on this thread...
Fix it before you get hit with stolen property charges...laughable
Return it and get your money back...hilarious
Make the seller get the title...yeah I'm sure he'll get right on that
Go back to the manufacturer...now that's a good one (Forest River couldn't even tell me what decal profile I have on my 2005 unit when I wanted to replace them)
Homemade title is good till you get pulled over...now that's about a one in a billion chance

Sure is a lot to do about nothing for a $1500 transaction.

[Mark_and_Linda]

I live in Tennessee also. Trailer tags are not required but I have a utility and my travel trailer with tags on them. When I bought my Utility trailer from a well known supply company I got a title. I took it to the clerk's office to get it put in my name...hence I had to have tag's for it. $14.50 a year isn't nothing. I was thinking, how many others who own boat trailers, etc and don't tag them, do they have a title? Hope you get it straightened out! It can be a mess.....