Multiple Tire Blowouts

[ItsMeCarlos]

Hi all!

Noobie to the forum but have been lurking for a while.

Thanks for all the info you all share in this forum. It helps a lot more people that you know.

So I have an issue....

We own a 2017 Forest River Salem 30KQBSS TT. This is our first RV and we love it.

We usually just go up the road to Orlando maybe 2-3 times a year. This is just shy of 400 miles round trip.

During the summer of 2018, we make our 4th trip to Orlando and we get our first blowout on the passenger side. These were the original factory tires (I do not have the tire info on hand). The tires probably had around 1400 miles on them.

A little bit of background, I am very meticulous when it come to towing safety. I have towed in the past. I check all air pressures, inspect all tires, grease, lube, etc, etc... The tires looked in good shape.

Back to the blowout, I change the tire and I see the tire behind it (non blowout) has some of the steel threads embedded in it from the blowout tire.

I decided to change it out also as a safety precaution. Luckily I carry two spares.

It caused a lot of undercarriage damage as well as fender damage but I was able to duct tape and tie wrap everything so I can get back on the road. It was a mess.

We get to our destination and had roadside come and replace one of the tires since I now had no spare.

So now I had one spare tire on (can't remember the make), one new tire that roadside installed and the two original tires that came with the TT.

Made it home with no issues.

Before our next trip I installed two new tires. This time I purchased Load Range E tires. Originally all the tires before were Load Range D tires so I figured I would go with a higher range tire.

All my tires up to that point were Load Range D as per the manufactures recommendations.

I install my 2 new E tires (1 on front passenger, 1 on front driver) and I install my newer tire (roadside assistance replacement) as well as my newest spare tire.

Fast forward to this July 2019 (6th trip). This would be our second trip since our last blowout (about 500 miles on the new tires). One hour into our trip we get a blowout on the drivers side, rear tire. This was a load D tire. I replace it with one of my spares (Load D). It was another mess but got back on the road and finally made it to Orlando from Ft. Lauderdale.

Same trip driving back home (remember, this is a 200 mile trip one way), I get a low air pressure reading from my new wireless TMPS system I had purchased before our trip. On a side note I highly recommend one of these. It gave me peace of mind.

I pull over and sure enough as the TMPS said my passenger side rear wheel was way low on air and it was (air leak). This tire was also a Load D tire. Down to my 2nd and last spare, I change it out. This tire is also Load D.

Get back on the road.

About an hour later BOOM! Tire I just replaced blows out! @!%#%

Luckily it happened next to the rest area.

With no spare tires left, I call a local, mobile tire repair shop.

While I was waiting for him I'm trying to figure, 1. What the heck is going on. 2. I still will not have a spare if it happens again.

I called the tire guy before he got there and I told him to bring me two tires.

Gentleman comes out and replaces the blowout and the last remaining Load D tire with a Load E as per his recommendations.

A couple of hours later we (wife, our two kids and our dog) get back on the road. We made it home with no more issues.

Any ideas what can be happening?

I'm thinking of weight issues, so I looked at the manufactures weight and tire info on the trailer.

The GVWR is 9699 lbs.

On the tire and loading information sticker, it says " The combination weight of Cargo should Never Exceed 2731 lbs."

There is another yellow sticker that is labeled Recreational Vehicle Trailer Cargo Carrying Capacity that states the same thing. "The weight of the cargo should never exceeded 2731 lbs."

So am I missing something?

There is no way I am carrying more that 2,700 lbs of stuff in my trailer. Clothes and food for 7 days, games and the kids scooters, etc should be no where near that. I know, I should take the trailer to a local scale to know for sure.

So if by the manufactures numbers, GVWR 9699 lbs. plus Cargo 2731 lbs. totaling 12.430 lbs. can be safely towed.

Now here is the kicker, the tires that came with the trailer and the tires that are recommended from factory are Load Range D tires. Load range D tires have a max load 2540 lbs. per tire. My trailer is a dual axle (4 tires), so the total of the max weight for the tires should be 10,160 lbs. This is almost the weight of the TT without anything in it!!!

As per the TT label I should be able to load another 2700 lbs but there is no way these factory tires are manufactured to hold this.

So, am I missing something?
Am I reading the label wrong?
Did the manufacture mess something up?

Six tires on a two and a half year old TT with around 2700 miles.

I am in the process of contacting Forest River but I wanted to get some advice before I do.

Sorry for the long read.

I look forward to hearing your replies.

Thank you in advance!
Carlos

[CapriRacer]

CALandLIN wrote:
What is your opinion about the RVIA recommendation for RV trailer manufacturers to discontinue the use of bias ply ST tires on wheels 14" OD and above?

I've already found one manufacturer (Kenda) that's already building 12" OD radial tires. Boat Trailer haulers are going to like them as they are LRD with 1520# of load capacity.

I don't have an opinion one way or the other. I don't know why they would make that recommendation and I don't have any references that say there is a difference - except, of course, about the difference in the way they handle - and I wouldn't think that would make a large enough difference to result in that recommendation.

[CALandLIN]

CapriRacer wrote:


Interesting, but it doesn't explain why the older trailers also are not experiencing these failures. Nevertheless, the 10% change was something that needed to be done to bring the RV industry in line with cars and trucks.

What is your opinion about the RVIA recommendation for RV trailer manufacturers to discontinue the use of bias ply ST tires on wheels 14" OD and above?

I've already found one manufacturer (Kenda) that's already building 12" OD radial tires. Boat Trailer haulers are going to like them as they are LRD with 1520# of load capacity.

[JIMNLIN]

People complain. "I ran 100 mph while 30 lbs low on pressure and my tire blew out" or "I clipped 17 curbs because I can not drive and then spent 10 miles at speed on the shoulder". One thing is 100$ certain with complaints and that is the complainer is never at fault.

And even more exaggerations.
There have been ST tire brand recalls before. Even at the rate they have given owners problems NHTSA may not issue a recall because a blow out or run flat on a trailer isn't nearly as serious as one on our tow vehicles. Now if injuries had occurred then like the Firestone tires/Ford vehicles debacle some years back then recalls can be issued.

What most folks find out is there are better ST brands out here or tire types that eliminated their tire issues on their trailers. They/we continue driving the same roads and driving style but no more ruined tires and damaged trailer.

We had the same type comments from certain folks over on several Ford truck forums when owners started having issues with the infamous 6.0 engine. They also made exaggerated comments about those owners who had issues with them as some how it was the owners fault and not the engine.

[Huntindog]

Bert Ackerman wrote:

JIMNLIN wrote:

Don't forget the amount of Chinese tires on landscape/flat/utility trailers, horse trailers, box trailers etc, most made in China. By the comments on RV boards you should see multiple trailers with flat tires every time you venture out on the highway. In any case you should see one every time you drive anywhere.

Exaggeration at its best.
I'm a member on several websites that represents most of the non rv type trailers you mention. We see about the same number of ST tire issues as we see on this and other rv trailering websites.

The vast majority of trailer owners (rv and non rv) like their ST tires/brands and have had no issues with them...but many of us have. Most of us found a better tire type or a different brand that eliminated our reoccurring tire issues.
If you feel the need or simply want any ST tire pick one. If you don't feel the need for a different brand or tire type or the added cost of a better tire, no one is going to think badly of you for your decision to keep using what works for you.

NHTSA tire complaints ??
Years back Carlisle had over 180 complaints and Goodyear Marathons lead the pack at 235 complaints. I see NHTSA comes through every so often and removes tire complaints that didn't give the correct info and have in the past removed those that had no bodily injuries listed.

The last 2-3 years we have a better generation of ST tires which brings down complaints. JMO but generally new trailer owners are better educated through forums about ST tire issues as evident trailer mfg offering better tires as a option or come as OEM.

Dead on it's exaggeration at its best, this entire topic. NHTSA "complaints" mean about as much as the spew on this board. People complain. "I ran 100 mph while 30 lbs low on pressure and my tire blew out" or "I clipped 17 curbs because I can not drive and then spent 10 miles at speed on the shoulder". One thing is 100$ certain with complaints and that is the complainer is never at fault.

180 complaints for this or 235 complaints for that, how many actual "recalls"?

I too do not put much stock in NHSTAs cmplaint stats... Becuase I think they are understated.

I know that none of my many failures were not reported..... And I bet most are like me. Fix it and move on. The complaint thing IMO is worthless

[jy]

Guess I.ll put my 2cents whorth in.This spring bought a 2 year old Wildwood 29 foot tt.Previous owner had bought it new 2 years ago,towed it to florida,parked it for two years and towed it back to Michigan.Chinese 6 ply tires looked great.First trip for us we went 200 miles to northern michigan.30 miles into return trip rr tire blew.Pressure was checked before we left up north.Luckily only minor damage to the plastic covering underneath.Got home bought 4 new Goodyear endurance 8 ply tires.Feel much better about tires and the trailer sways less. Btw,Tomman,I,m one of your retired brothers.

[Bert_Ackerman]

JIMNLIN wrote:

Don't forget the amount of Chinese tires on landscape/flat/utility trailers, horse trailers, box trailers etc, most made in China. By the comments on RV boards you should see multiple trailers with flat tires every time you venture out on the highway. In any case you should see one every time you drive anywhere.

Exaggeration at its best.
I'm a member on several websites that represents most of the non rv type trailers you mention. We see about the same number of ST tire issues as we see on this and other rv trailering websites.

The vast majority of trailer owners (rv and non rv) like their ST tires/brands and have had no issues with them...but many of us have. Most of us found a better tire type or a different brand that eliminated our reoccurring tire issues.
If you feel the need or simply want any ST tire pick one. If you don't feel the need for a different brand or tire type or the added cost of a better tire, no one is going to think badly of you for your decision to keep using what works for you.

NHTSA tire complaints ??
Years back Carlisle had over 180 complaints and Goodyear Marathons lead the pack at 235 complaints. I see NHTSA comes through every so often and removes tire complaints that didn't give the correct info and have in the past removed those that had no bodily injuries listed.

The last 2-3 years we have a better generation of ST tires which brings down complaints. JMO but generally new trailer owners are better educated through forums about ST tire issues as evident trailer mfg offering better tires as a option or come as OEM.

Dead on it's exaggeration at its best, this entire topic. NHTSA "complaints" mean about as much as the spew on this board. People complain. "I ran 100 mph while 30 lbs low on pressure and my tire blew out" or "I clipped 17 curbs because I can not drive and then spent 10 miles at speed on the shoulder". One thing is 100$ certain with complaints and that is the complainer is never at fault.

180 complaints for this or 235 complaints for that, how many actual "recalls"?

[CapriRacer]

CALandLIN wrote:
…… A hypothetical for the new GY Endurance ST brand could include a collaboration between GY & RVIA. The Endurance came on the market about the same time RVIA made the now enacted recommendation for all member RV trailer manufacturers to provide 10% in load capacity reserves above vehicle certified GAWRs for all tire fitments. ……

Interesting, but it doesn't explain why the older trailers also are not experiencing these failures. Nevertheless, the 10% change was something that needed to be done to bring the RV industry in line with cars and trucks.

CALandLIN wrote:
…… Yes, the Endurance tire sidewalls have more material than the Marathons. That material is in the form of scuff guard protection and has no bearing on the tire's load carrying ability...…

I don't think it's the sidewalls that are important here. It's the cap plies in the tread area. The Marathons didn't have them and the Endurance ST's do.

My experience says that cap plies are a great help. Aside from improving the speed capability, they also increase the load carrying capability. That's why the Endurance series has an
N speed rating, instead of the no speed rating for the Marathon's (and L speed rating for the 2015 production onward).

[Huntindog]

I'm not going to get into the LT vs ST thing. I'll just say this, a high percentage of the industry will not support changing a vehicle manufacturer's certified designated size for a different designated size.

And yet a LOT of higher end towable manufacturers DO make LTs available... Either standard or as an option. So it seems when price is less important.... That the manufacturers are OK with LTs.

It is standard practice in the RV, and even the automotive industry to not recommend any tires other than stock. Corportions are gunshy about potential liability issues when people start changing the way their products left the factory.... However, Many people DO upgrade their tires on both Autos and RVs.... And of course some don't do it thoughtfully and get a poor result. But most do it right, and are rewarded with better performance.

As with any modification to any product, the onus is on the modifyer to do their homework.

If that is not something one is comfortable with... Then don't do it...

[CALandLIN]

CapriRacer wrote:
Perhaps I can add something to this thread. Retired tire engineer here.

My expereince with tire failures is that they peak in the third year, but you get a solid, quantifiable, indication in the second year. Also, that tire failures are a summer phenomenon. They are virtually non-existant in Nov, Dec, Jan, and Feb.

The earliest production of the Goodyear Endurance ST tire line is in the tail end of its 3rd summer, and the second summer for the second year of production. I haven't heard of any failures, so my experince says the problems that occurred with the Marathon have been fixed

You probably already know I've been writing about RV trailer tires for 15+ years. So this is not in support of GY, it's just information as I have observed it in the thousands of antidotal postings I have read over the years with a little factual information added in.

IMO the GY Marathon ST trailer tires (foreign & domestic) were severely abused by the RV trailer industry because of a zero load capacity minimum requirement in the FMVSS (standards) that still remains in effect. Being a high usage OEM tire they had to withstand fitments to axles certified for their fitment by the vehicle manufacturer. A glaring example would be 5200# axles certified by their builder yet recertified by a RV trailer manufacturer to 5080# so they could install tires rated at 2540#.

A hypothetical for the new GY Endurance ST brand could include a collaboration between GY & RVIA. The Endurance came on the market about the same time RVIA made the now enacted recommendation for all member RV trailer manufacturers to provide 10% in load capacity reserves above vehicle certified GAWRs for all tire fitments.

Because tire compounding is normally a closed/classified subject for us users, we have to take the manufacturer's press releases that improvements have been made. I've not seen a percentage of improvement reported.

Yes, the Endurance tire sidewalls have more material than the Marathons. That material is in the form of scuff guard protection and has no bearing on the tire's load carrying ability.

I'm not going to get into the LT vs ST thing. I'll just say this, a high percentage of the industry will not support changing a vehicle manufacturer's certified designated size for a different designated size.

[JIMNLIN]

Don't forget the amount of Chinese tires on landscape/flat/utility trailers, horse trailers, box trailers etc, most made in China. By the comments on RV boards you should see multiple trailers with flat tires every time you venture out on the highway. In any case you should see one every time you drive anywhere.

Exaggeration at its best.
I'm a member on several websites that represents most of the non rv type trailers you mention. We see about the same number of ST tire issues as we see on this and other rv trailering websites.

The vast majority of trailer owners (rv and non rv) like their ST tires/brands and have had no issues with them...but many of us have. Most of us found a better tire type or a different brand that eliminated our reoccurring tire issues.
If you feel the need or simply want any ST tire pick one. If you don't feel the need for a different brand or tire type or the added cost of a better tire, no one is going to think badly of you for your decision to keep using what works for you.

NHTSA tire complaints ??
Years back Carlisle had over 180 complaints and Goodyear Marathons lead the pack at 235 complaints. I see NHTSA comes through every so often and removes tire complaints that didn't give the correct info and have in the past removed those that had no bodily injuries listed.

The last 2-3 years we have a better generation of ST tires which brings down complaints. JMO but generally new trailer owners are better educated through forums about ST tire issues as evident trailer mfg offering better tires as a option or come as OEM.

[Bert_Ackerman]

Lynnmor wrote:

Bert Ackerman wrote:


Yes, it's of no value to me whatsoever.

Thank You!

Don't mention it!

[lenr]

Everyone has to make their own decision on tires. I believe that most Chinese tires are actually marketed by importers using low bid factories who really don't care about the long term. The issue for me is that when a tire, any tire, goes on an RV, of any type, the damage may range from minor to spectacular. I'm willing to run the best tires I can find (IMHO) on my RV to reduce the risk of spectacular to rare. I have had no problem running OEM Chinese tires on my 14K equipment hauler trailer because when they go, all that steel will not be damaged. No one is saying that 50% of Chinese tires will blow within 2 years. I just personally don't want any tire blowout on my trailer. Each owner gets to decide their personal risk level.

[Lynnmor]

Bert Ackerman wrote:


Yes, it's of no value to me whatsoever.

Thank You!

[Bert_Ackerman]

Lynnmor wrote:

Bert Ackerman wrote:


You guys are wasting your breath. None of that matters on these boards. The fact that the RV Industry puts at least 1,300,000 new tires on the road every year, most of which come from China, and the roads are not choked with traffic jams from all these exploding tires matters not. Don't forget the amount of Chinese tires on landscape/flat/utility trailers, horse trailers, box trailers etc, most made in China. By the comments on RV boards you should see multiple trailers with flat tires every time you venture out on the highway. In any case you should see one every time you drive anywhere. Then there is the fact that you see hardly any recalls if any on these Chinese tires over at the NHTSA, but that does not apply on these boards either.

I had ST tires fail on a popup, a snowmobile trailer and on a utility trailer, but my experience is of no value, right?

Yes, it's of no value to me whatsoever.

[Lynnmor]

Bert Ackerman wrote:


You guys are wasting your breath. None of that matters on these boards. The fact that the RV Industry puts at least 1,300,000 new tires on the road every year, most of which come from China, and the roads are not choked with traffic jams from all these exploding tires matters not. Don't forget the amount of Chinese tires on landscape/flat/utility trailers, horse trailers, box trailers etc, most made in China. By the comments on RV boards you should see multiple trailers with flat tires every time you venture out on the highway. In any case you should see one every time you drive anywhere. Then there is the fact that you see hardly any recalls if any on these Chinese tires over at the NHTSA, but that does not apply on these boards either.

I had ST tires fail on a popup, a snowmobile trailer and on a utility trailer, but my experience is of no value, right?