Navistar to start building GM midsize Vans

[ShinerBock]

I guess since Ford and CAT ended their partnership with Navistar(International) to build their trucks and engines, now GM will being partnering with them to build their midsize vehicles.

Navistar to Build Vans for GM Under Long-Term Contract

[ShinerBock]

travelnutz wrote:
Probably the biggest problem with the Ford/Navistar diesel engine is that Ford demanded the engine ready for production in 2003 because they were getting their lunch eaten by Duramax and Cummins and the 6.0 engine was still approx 2 years from being actually ready with the bugs worked out and thorough and complete reliability testing having been completed. On file is the objection from Navistar for early release for production. Ford made the rules and had the controls it bit them hard! Notice that Ford didn't win their big lawsuit with Navistar? Both had some fault in the matter but Ford called the shots!

The release of the 6.0L later in 2003 was due to the upcoming 2004 emission standards, nothing more. It is the same reason why Cummins went to high pressure common rail in 2003, and the Duramax LLY engine was introduced in 2004. If you look at the changes of all the pickup diesels along with the different Ford diesel engines and the 1994, 1998, 2004, 2007, and 2010 emissions standards changes, you will notice they coincide with each other.

Also, I am not sure what you mean by getting their lunch eaten. The 2001,2002, and 2003 7.3L with an auto trans made 250 hp/505 lb-ft, the 2003 Duramax auto made 235 hp/500 lb-ft, and the Cummins auto made 235 hp/460 lb-ft. Where in that do you see the 7.3L having it's lunch eaten?

[travelnutz]

Probably the biggest problem with the Ford/Navistar diesel engine is that Ford demanded the engine ready for production in 2003 because they were getting their lunch eaten by Duramax and Cummins and the 6.0 engine was still approx 2 years from being actually ready with the bugs worked out and thorough and complete reliability testing having been completed. On file is the objection from Navistar for early release for production. Ford made the rules and had the controls it bit them hard! Notice that Ford didn't win their big lawsuit with Navistar? Both had some fault in the matter but Ford called the shots!

[FishOnOne]

blt2ski wrote:

garyp4951 wrote:
I hope they don't use a Navistar engine.

Navigator in general builds one of the better motors out there. Issue becomes, when others try to modify it beyond its design limits. IE Ford with the 6.0/6.4 v8. Or not using the proper or not using filters as required. While I will not put ALL the blame on Ford, they are more than half of the issue imho.

Marty

I completely disagree with Ford being responsible for more than half the issues, but that's another story. As a matter of fact Ford financially blocked several hostile take overs of Navistar and loaned out their designers/engineers to help improve the looks and product design of the Navistar line up so Navistar could stay afloat and oontinue to supply Ford diesel engines.

Navistar design philosophy for the 2010 emissions standard was to increase EGR usage that just about killed their reputation and their business. I thought I read there was a period where they had to outsource all Cummins engines for their trucks because their emissions design methods wasn't working and they were in a serious pickle including their CEO. This occurred right after Ford divorced Navistar.

On a different note, I personally know one guy at work who has a '09 6.4 PSD that gets driven mostly highway miles that has over 250k miles and the engine hasn't been touched except for a idler pulley. As a matter of fact he recently had his transmission replaced due to the fact it still had the factory oil and filter so it's obvious this guy doesn't stay on top of maintenance. The 6.4 IMO is only good as a highway runner just like the first year Duramax and Cummins with DPF's and all three suffered from "Making Oil" with the Duramax handling the DPF emissions equipment probably the best.

I wish GM well with this new relationship, but they better perform routine manufacturing audits and keep their finger on the pulse to ensure Navistar makes a quality product.

[blt2ski]

garyp4951 wrote:
I hope they don't use a Navistar engine.

Navigator in general builds one of the better motors out there. Issue becomes, when others try to modify it beyond its design limits. IE Ford with the 6.0/6.4 v8. Or not using the proper or not using filters as required. While I will not put ALL the blame on Ford, they are more than half of the issue imho.

Marty

[garyp4951]

I hope they don't use a Navistar engine.

[ShinerBock]

Dadoffourgirls wrote:
Your title and statement are incorrect. Navistar will be assembling the Express and Savana Cut-away Full-Size Vans.

To"may"to.....To"mah"to... I will still say make. After all, I don't say that a baker "assembles" a cake even though he didn't grow, harvest, produce, or distributed the individual pieces of a cake.

[FishOnOne]

This move was made so gm can increase production capacity of their mid size trucks

[Dadoffourgirls]

Your title and statement are incorrect. Navistar will be assembling the Express and Savana Cut-away Full-Size Vans.