Newbie Towing Issues

[steelhands]

Hello folks,

My SO and I bought a 2013 25' Puma (by Palimino?) TT with no miles on it and it seems really nice, with a few issues to fix (for a later post)but my current problem is a bit of trailer sway when trucks pass me. I bought a Ford F250 with the 6.1 gas engine and it seems to tow the TT just fine. There is no sway bars or WDH. Will they be necessary? We have taken a couple of week long trips but mostly drove a day and camped for six days. I'd guess I've driven the rig about 600 miles so far.

We are planning to take a cross country trip, Atlanta to BC, Canada at the end of June so I need to get my butt ready to go.

Thanks in advance,
Sam

[rfryer]

steelhands wrote:
Well, that's a lot to consider. For what it's worth, I have kept the speed down to 65mph or less 99.9% of the time. Going faster seemed dangerous. The truck does not sag at the rear when I put the TT on the ball. The whole rig, TT and truck seem very level to the naked eye. The sway is not that extreme (so far). Who knows what it will be like with Kansas crosswinds.

I am taking the TT and truck to a RV Service place here in Atlanta and having them go over the whole setup. Hopefully, they will be able to weigh and tell me how far out of range I am, if any.

Thanks for all the food for thought.

S

If they have a split scale They can weigh it. I don't recall ever seeing one at a shop. But easy to do yourself. Just go a truck stop and weight the rig with the TT connected. Keep the TV front and rear axles on separate scales and the TT axles on another. Cost about $7.00. Then pull off and disconnect and reweigh the TV alone. Another $1.00.Then you'll have what you need.

[steelhands]

Well, that's a lot to consider. For what it's worth, I have kept the speed down to 65mph or less 99.9% of the time. Going faster seemed dangerous. The truck does not sag at the rear when I put the TT on the ball. The whole rig, TT and truck seem very level to the naked eye. The sway is not that extreme (so far). Who knows what it will be like with Kansas crosswinds.

I am taking the TT and truck to a RV Service place here in Atlanta and having them go over the whole setup. Hopefully, they will be able to weigh and tell me how far out of range I am, if any.

Thanks for all the food for thought.

S

[2500HDee]

The need for a WDH seems to get blanket application even when not needed. They are used to restore weight to the steer axle of the truck. Not sure sbout Ford but my stock hitch was rated for 1000 lbs load bearing or 1500 with WDH. 1000 lbs on the back just gets it on to the factory overload springs and levels the truck. This is what the truck was designed for and why the rear sits higher than the front in the first place.

The hitch is not so far behind the axle that it can lift the weight of the drivetrain and cab and passengers off the steer axle with 1000 lbs of tounge weight. The issue comes when your tounge weight is high enough to sag the rear of the truck, ie. a half ton or a truck that starts level. Regardless of load on the hitch, lowering the rear of the truck will transfer the trucks own weight rearward. This is when you really start getting weight off the steer axle.

If my truck weighs 6800 lbs roughly 3800 lbs of that is on the front axle when unloaded, more with passengers. I would not begin to worry about steering until that number got much lower. A simple free body diagram will tell you that with no sag adding 1000 lbs to the hitch will result in maybe a reduction of 250 lbs at the steer axle. Assuming hitch is about three feet behind axle and the steer axle is about 13 feet in front of rear axle. That is not much weight difference on the steer axle of a 6800 lb truck.

I have about 800 lbs of tounge weight and set up my WDH to restore the front of the truck to the unloaded position using 1000 lb round bars. Towed the trailer about 5000 miles. Then took them off and towed about 400 miles so far. At this point I cannot notice any difference without them other than a smoother ride since the weight is on the truck axle which has shock absorbers rather than on the bouncy spring bars.

Passing trucks feel the same with or without and I do stay below 65 mph with my ST tires.

[Oaklevel]

Dry weight is totally empty with nothing & that weight only one time when leaving the dealer always heavier later. Weigh it at a scale you will be surprised that it weighs much more.

That aside sway control is necessary!!!!!!!!! Weight distribution not so much if you are level.

[mikeh449]

on a side note st tires on your trailer are rated for 65 mph max speed unless you have replaced with lt tires

[Terryallan]

As for feeling the trucks pass you. No matter what you do. You will always feel the trucks pass you. They feel each other pass, and busses feel them as well. What to worry about, is if it is enough to scare you. IF it is. you need the WDH, and sway control.

[gmw_photos]

If this were mine, I would:

1. go to scales to get weights
2. ensure I have 12 to 13% tongue weight
3. buy WD hitch with built-in sway control ( I use BlueOx, but others work well too )
4. set up WD hitch, go back to scales, ensure I am restoring at least 50% front axle loss, and perhaps as much as 100% FALR. Fine tune it based on how it pulls
5. I would replace trailer tires with load range D LT tires.

[handye9]

steelhands wrote:
Thanks,

The specs say that the tongue weight is 600 lbs and I'd guess that seems about right. The TT weight is 5,700 dry and we don't have much inside and I travel with the tanks nearly empty. I am running 80 psi in the trucks back tires and 60 in the front as per the label on the door frame. 50 psi on the TT tires.

After loading dishes, pots and pans, bedding, BBQ, camp chairs, groceries, and water, your dry weight numbers are useless. (Actually, that trailer weighed more than dry weight, before it left the dealers lot.) The average load of these items, is 800 - 1000 lbs. That would put your trailer's loaded weight at about 6500 lbs. Average tongue weight is 12 - 13 percent of loaded weight. That would put your tongue weight between 780 and 845 lbs. Without WDH, it is quite possible, you are exceeding your hitch rating.

If the majority of your loading is behind the trailer axles, that would take enough weight off the tongue, to cause sway issues. (One item I have to watch, is filling my fresh water tank. The tank is in the rear end, and takes up to 200 lbs off my tongue weight when it is full.)

You need to be aware of your actual weights and how they are affected by loading.

Feeling a little (note: little) bow wave, from passing trucks, is normal. Without WDH and having 800 lbs tongue weight hanging on your back end. That bow wave would be magnified, because you have reduced weight on your steering axle (tow vehicle tends to wander), and there is nothing to control the bow wave effects on the trailer.

Recommendations:

Accurate weights on the trailer (check tongue weight percentage)
Weight distribution hitch
Propper height on hitch ball
Sway control
Trailer loading
Check speed rating on trailer tires (most likely 65 MPH max)

[leftybj]

I agree with Bruce. Whats the hurry? Slow down and be safe.

[nomad297]

steelhands wrote:
The sway I get is usually at speeds above 65 mph

Did you know your trailer tires are not rated for speeds above 65 mph? Slow down so you don't kill us all.

Bruce

[MarkTwain]

Towing a TT without a WDH is just an accident waiting to happen. I used and liked the Reese Dual Cam WDH. Once I installed it, I felt minimal sway especially from the wind of big 18 wheel trucks. The same when driving through high winds/gusts. There are other WHD systems that others think are good, so you need to do some research and ask your RV friends what WDH they have experienced.

[rfryer]

You really need to go weigh your rig on a split scale. First the TV by itself, then with the TT hooked up. The weights you give are dry weights and relatively useless, I think your real tw should be in the area of 800-900#. Without actual weights you’re just guessing at the problem and the solution.

[anaro]

Grrr.. double post

[anaro]

That is a dry tongue weight. That is not where you will be camping. Ideal tongue weight is 13-15% of loaded tongue weight. IIRC the ford has a 500 lb load bearing restriction on their hitch. You are over that. I would get a wdh rated for 800 or 1000 lbs depending on what your loaded tongue weight will be.