Opinions on Grand Design

[ib516]

*LONG POST WARNING*

Hey everyone, long time RVer here. When people ask questions, I find it helpful to know some background to better answer their question. So, here's some background.

I started out with a late 70's vintage tent trailer (pop-up), moved to a 25' TT (Fleetwood Terry), then a 33' TT (Keystone Cougar) which was a POS which I thought was a one off - more on that later. Then I last had a 37' 3 slide Keystone Cougar 322QBS 5er. That thing nearly caused a fatal collision as the pin box welds failed (Lippert frame) when only a few months old while going down the highway at 65 mph, and it had to be rebuilt in the front due to extremely poor quality construction and non-existent QC at Keystone.

Here's a link to that saga

Anyway, the point of all this is that I am much more aware of the quality of the bones of an RV now, rather than just the floorplan and the shiny features. None of that is any good if the frame breaks.

Between then and now there has been a divorce and a new, much happier marriage, and the kids are grown and gone. Retirement is coming in the next few years and my wife and I and 2 dogs are likely going to move into an RV and spend a few years work-camping, traveling, and living in the RV in a semi-permanent site for a few months at a time, likely near the Canadian West Coast.

Sooooo...all that said, 3 RVs have caught our attention.

- Grand Design Reflection 287RLTS
- Grand Design Reflection 315RLTS
- Grand Design Reflection 297RSTS

And also the Freedom Express Liberty Edition 279RLTS.

I would welcome any comments on the build quality, durability, overall quality, etc. etc. of Grand Design's Reflection series TTs.

As well, the tow vehicle hasn't been purchased yet, I will do that AFTER we pick an RV so I can match up the specs.

Thanks!

[GrandpaKip]

ib516 wrote:

GrandpaKip wrote:
I’m like Huntindog. Our Dart has all Lippert suspension and I have found nothing that would make me leary of them. If I was looking for another camper, who made the frame wouldn’t matter. What would matter is if the frame is minimally sized for that camper.

When mine failed, dropping my 5er onto my truck while going down the highway at 65mph, it wasn't the size, it was the lack of quality of the welds.

The professional mobile welder Keystone sent to the campground to patch the pinbox back onto the 5er so I could tow it to a repair facility without it snapping off and going into oncoming traffic said the welds were "full of rust and porosity" and any welder with any skill at all would have seen they did not bond to either metal. Take a look at the link I provided and see for yourself. Keep in mind this RV is only a few months old when this pic was taken.
And if that had happened to me, I would be royally PO’d. And very skeptical of anything Lippert, also.

Here's some Lippert quality....




This is the area on the pinbox where this picture was taken (stock photo)


The pinbox broke free and pushed up into the nose cap, breaking the floor and wall in the front bedroom on a new (not overloaded) RV. It was a mess.

[Huntindog]

Ralph Cramden wrote:

Huntindog wrote:
The difference between a Lippert axle and a Dexter axle is....... Lippert uses powder coat. Dexter paints theirs.... That is it.

Lippert high quality components, same as Dexter other than the paint. OK lol.

Maybe ask Grand Design why they switched to Dexter from Lippert @ 2017, or better yet ask one of the thousands of Grand Design owners who had issues on new rigs with the LCI axles, most multiple times.

LCI AXLE ISSUE

I have yet to see a Grand Design rig not built on a Lippert frame no matter if it has LCI or Dexter axles.

Ralph,,,,, Did you actually read what is in your link?

one tenth of 1% of the axles Lippert made had this issue.... Of course that is a lot of axles..... But it also means that 99.9% did not have the issue. And that is a LOT more axles.

[ib516]

GrandpaKip wrote:
I’m like Huntindog. Our Dart has all Lippert suspension and I have found nothing that would make me leary of them. If I was looking for another camper, who made the frame wouldn’t matter. What would matter is if the frame is minimally sized for that camper.

When mine failed, dropping my 5er onto my truck while going down the highway at 65mph, it wasn't the size, it was the lack of quality of the welds.

The professional mobile welder Keystone sent to the campground to patch the pinbox back onto the 5er so I could tow it to a repair facility without it snapping off and going into oncoming traffic said the welds were "full of rust and porosity" and any welder with any skill at all would have seen they did not bond to either metal. Take a look at the link I provided and see for yourself. Keep in mind this RV is only a few months old when this pic was taken.

Here's some Lippert quality....




This is the area on the pinbox where this picture was taken (stock photo)


The pinbox broke free and pushed up into the nose cap, breaking the floor and wall in the front bedroom on a new (not overloaded) RV. It was a mess.

[GrandpaKip]

I’m like Huntindog. Our Dart has all Lippert suspension and I have found nothing that would make me leary of them. If I was looking for another camper, who made the frame wouldn’t matter. What would matter is if the frame is minimally sized for that camper.
However, I do understand Ralph’s concern. I feel the same way about anything Chrysler. Irrational perhaps, but it makes sense to me.

[Ralph_Cramden]

Huntindog wrote:
The difference between a Lippert axle and a Dexter axle is....... Lippert uses powder coat. Dexter paints theirs.... That is it.

Lippert high quality components, same as Dexter other than the paint. OK lol.

Maybe ask Grand Design why they switched to Dexter from Lippert @ 2017, or better yet ask one of the thousands of Grand Design owners who had issues on new rigs with the LCI axles, most multiple times.

LCI AXLE ISSUE

I have yet to see a Grand Design rig not built on a Lippert frame no matter if it has LCI or Dexter axles.

[Huntindog]

The difference between a Lippert axle and a Dexter axle is....... Lippert uses powder coat. Dexter paints theirs.... That is it.

ksbowman wrote:
Better check on the Lippert frame and axles. Some GD models are using dexter axles now and the frames may not all be Lippert. We have a 303rls 5th wheel and could not be happier. Our last 5th was a Keystone and I had to replace both axles due to being bent.

[ksbowman]

Better check on the Lippert frame and axles. Some GD models are using dexter axles now and the frames may not all be Lippert. We have a 303rls 5th wheel and could not be happier. Our last 5th was a Keystone and I had to replace both axles due to being bent.

[36guy]

We have a GD imagine bumper pull I'm very happy with the build quality, including the underpinnings. I traded in a cougar fifth for it, much better than my cougar.

[36guy]

We have a GD imagine bumper pull I'm very happy with the build quality, including the underpinnings. I traded in a cougar fifth for it, much better than my cougar.

[Huntindog]

I realize that I may be an anomaly here......

But my Sabre has a Lippert frame, axles etc..
The frame is very stout, and the welds are top notch.( I am a welder).This is the first TT I have owned that I have not had to repair the frame on. Those were NOT Lippert frames
The axles were the sealed bearing type originally. When a bearing went south, and I found that Lippert had discontinued that type of axle, they fixed me up with brand new heavier axles and a VERY good price.

The point is, Lippert will sell a manufacturer whatever they ask for.

Sabre spec'd a heavy duty frame, and that is what I got.

Many other manufacturers, sadly do not... Probably to save a few bucks to be competitive....But that is NOT Lipperts fault

[Mike_E_]

You may find out that Coachmen also uses Lippert frames? They seem to have that market cornered.

Northwood/Outdoors Manufacturing use their own frames....beefy. You have to like one of their floorplans though.

[ib516]

mbopp wrote:
A happy GD owner here. But since GD uses Lippert frames there have also been instances of lousy welds.

Well that may eliminate them from my shopping list. I will never own another RV with a Lippert frame. I'll look closer at the Coachmen if I can confirm that GD uses that tin foil structure junk that Lippert thinks can act as a frame of an RV.

[Colo_Native]

As you can see I have a 315 and I really like it tows well it is long but it had what we wanted . Grand Design has great customer service. I have had a few issues but I call GD and they send me the part and I fix it, why do I fix it you may ask I bought mine out of town and the local dealer more or less refuses to work on it, it was worth buying out of state saved over $3000.

[mbopp]

A happy GD owner here. But since GD uses Lippert frames there have also been instances of lousy welds.