Outfitter camper

[sepeman]

I am new to the world of truck camping and this forum. I have been reading many of the different threads. I find the one on the Avion rebuid very enjoyable.My wife and I purchased a Starcraft Pine Mountain pop up camper and taken it on seveal short trips.We have discovered that the floor plan is not suited to our needs. The biggest is the unit does not have a U shape dinett area that makes into a bed. This would not be big problem except the main driving force in the camper design requiriments is the grandkids and were to have them sleep. We have started the quest to fine a diferent camper. We want to stay with a pop up. We currently have a 3/4 ton Dodge truck. So my question to the forum is Those of you that have the Hallmark or Outfitter camper coud you be so kind as to tell me about the plus and minus of these units?

[realter]

Google "Expedition Portal". Some good comparisons, although a little outdated, perhaps.

[Steve_in_29]

terryrey wrote:
I believe Outfitter now installs only manual holding tank valves on their campers. Bob told me they did that because the electric ones were unreliable. My 20ll with cassette and 7.5CF NovaKool compressor fridge (375W solar and many other options and modifications) has a manual valve for the grey tank (cassette doesn't need one). Please check with Outfitter to confirm. You can also get a new Apex 8.5 with a four 6V battery capacity compartment located under the rear dinette seat. - 460AH. You can't beat an Outfitter for features, customization, capability, storage room, off-road capability, and comfort in a pop-up! They are not cheap, but for what you get are price competitive. Terry

PS. The bed-drawer is a perfect large clothing storage drawer - meets the storage needs for for the two of us for any length trip we undertake and will handle clothes for three when we have someone on the dinette bed.

Interesting idea. On ours I had Bob install full length drawer slides (to handle the weight) and use it as a pantry. I did end up also eventually having to reinforce the drawer-face to drawer mounting, as it was never designed to keep that much mass from moving.


OP, when the cassette option is chosen there are three things that can be done with the former black tank location.
1: Extra fresh water tank
2: Extra gray tank
3: Outside storage area.

We went with the outside accessible storage compartment as that was the only storage type the Apex is a bit lacking in. Since we pretty much only camp in remote locations a larger gray tank capacity wasn't needed as it is easy to dump when needed. For additional fresh water I bring a couple 5 gallon SCEPTER cans to refill my tank if needed. They also allow me to source water away from the camper if needed.

[terryrey]

I believe Outfitter now installs only manual holding tank valves on their campers. Bob told me they did that because the electric ones were unreliable. My 20ll with cassette and 7.5CF NovaKool compressor fridge (375W solar and many other options and modifications) has a manual valve for the grey tank (cassette doesn't need one). Please check with Outfitter to confirm. You can also get a new Apex 8.5 with a four 6V battery capacity compartment located under the rear dinette seat. - 460AH. You can't beat an Outfitter for features, customization, capability, storage room, off-road capability, and comfort in a pop-up! They are not cheap, but for what you get are price competitive. Terry

PS. The bed-drawer is a perfect large clothing storage drawer - meets the storage needs for for the two of us for any length trip we undertake and will handle clothes for three when we have someone on the dinette bed.

[Steve_in_29]

Outfitter is the only 4-season pop-up truck camper. Full disclosure there is also the XPCamper but while it is indeed an awesome camper it is a whole order of magnitude price wise above even an Outfitter, let alone the lower cost brands.

Outfitter is now building their campers on a true one piece tub that provides more strength and insulation then their previous models and along with their molded one-piece roof makes them virtually leak proof. The 2 roof vents, 10 softwall and 2 hardwall windows allow for a great view and even better ventilation. Out in the desert heat we find that many times the AC isn't needed as long as there is a breeze.

We bought our first Outfitter (a heavily optioned/modified Apex8) back in 2004 and in doing so I was partly responsible for getting Bob to embrace the idea of heavily customized campers over cookie-cutter units. Though such customization doesn't come cheap. In 2007 we upgraded to an Apex9.5 (even more heavily modified) for more room and I also personally think that due to its longer floor it rides more stable in the truck's bed then the Apex8 did.

Prior to buying our first Outfitter in 2004 we had looked hard at several other brands. I initially wanted an Alaskan but there were too many sacrifices involved with no bathroom being the biggest (well they could add one for $2K) plus they make Outfitters look inexpensive. Then we looked at hallmark but they didn't have a basement and weren't interested in doing any modifications what so ever and thus I quickly crossed them off the list. Next up was Northstar and we had actually just left the dealer after touring some and had made up our minds to buy their 850SC model when we got the call from an Outfitter owner to tour his camper. After spending several hours with the owner going over his unit we knew that an Outfitter was the way we would go.

We bought both our campers via email/phone from Southern California and while things got a little rocky it eventually all worked out.

We have taken our Outfitter 4 wheeling in Baja, Utah and the SoCal desert/mountains. I have had quite a few surprised looks from Jeepers when they find us setup at the end of a trail.

I highly recommend the Tundra compressor fridge as it works MUCH better then the standard RV absorption fridges. In our 2007 I even helped Bob design an interior vent for the compressor fridge to avoid the large exterior vents normally employed and it has worked great. I also redesigned the LP-compartment/interior-closet area to accommodate the dual 20lb LP tanks on a slider I wanted.

Bob can pretty much accommodate any modifications desired as long as the exterior shell isn't compromised. Though it doesn't come cheap.

If you have specific questions feel free to ask away.

[Paul_V1]

We have a 2006 9.5 Apex and have used it a lot over the last 10 years. The only real complaints I have is both grey and black water electric valves have failed as in dead.
3 years ago I replaced them with a different kind of electric sewer valves and relocated the switches in the generator storage compartment. The manual over rides on the original valves were a joke being an aluminum slot for a screw driver that stripped out first try?
Redoing the valves was a job as there is very limited clearance in the basement. I replaced the valves with 3"Auto-Drain with 3" Valterra blade valves. These have worked perfect for the last 3 years now. If I ever have to do an over ride all I have to do is remove the kick plate, reach in and pull the handle on the blade valve.

[cewillis]

Geewizard wrote:

I'd like to replace my electric valves with manual. How do you replace them?

I'll post some pictures in a new thread -- eventually.

[Oldtymeflyr]

Geewizard wrote:

cewillis wrote:

Oldtymeflyr wrote:
The electric tank valves were a problem and now I have manual waste valves which I prefer. I would not go with the electric tank valves.

Interesting -- my grey tank electric valve recently failed shut - after 7+ years. (no black tank) Fortunately, I was almost home from a trip at the time. Anyway, I just took the electric valve out, and now plan to only use the one manual valve, plus the sealing cap. Do you use more that the stock manual valve?

I'd like to replace my electric valves with manual. How do you replace them?

I have both the grey water tank and the black tank. Both tanks had a separate electric valve. The black water tank electrical valve failed and it was replaced with a manual valve. That blackwater valve is located below the main floor and the handle sticks out of the kick panel as you enter the camper on the far right. Its in a good location and has not been a problem. Access is by removing the kick panel.

I disabled the grey water electrical valve in the open position so the grey water is contained by the main manual valve. I have not looked into replacing the grey water electrical valve with a manual valve, I don't think it is necessary. You may be able to get a view of the grey water valve by removing the kick panel.

So, when I drain the black water tank the grey water tank must be drained as well. Its not an issue to us. We tend to need to dump grey water more often then black water so its good that the black water is separately contained. Given that I can dump at our home, we can take as much time and use as much water as is necessary to clean out the tanks.

Hope this helps.

Rick

[Geewizard]

cewillis wrote:

Oldtymeflyr wrote:
The electric tank valves were a problem and now I have manual waste valves which I prefer. I would not go with the electric tank valves.

Interesting -- my grey tank electric valve recently failed shut - after 7+ years. (no black tank) Fortunately, I was almost home from a trip at the time. Anyway, I just took the electric valve out, and now plan to only use the one manual valve, plus the sealing cap. Do you use more that the stock manual valve?

I'd like to replace my electric valves with manual. How do you replace them?

[cewillis]

Oldtymeflyr wrote:
The electric tank valves were a problem and now I have manual waste valves which I prefer. I would not go with the electric tank valves.

Interesting -- my grey tank electric valve recently failed shut - after 7+ years. (no black tank) Fortunately, I was almost home from a trip at the time. Anyway, I just took the electric valve out, and now plan to only use the one manual valve, plus the sealing cap. Do you use more that the stock manual valve?

[Oldtymeflyr]

We have had our Apex 8 since 2009. We have used it 286 nights and traveled with it over 30,000 miles, on all types of roads including the back country. We have been in temperatures as low as -27 and often in below zero temperatures.

We have an oven (its our choice), queen bed(after a few years we replaced it with a mattress) electric jacks (must have) electric roof (convenient), Fantistic fan ( must have) top roof racks (must have) and 180 watts of solar (must have) and two 6v batteries (must have). We also have a large awning, which we like and use often.

We are generally off the grid and the solar works very well. I may add more solar panels for quicker charging of the batteries. We have sufficient propane for all but the coldest temperatures. In continuous below zero weather we will go through 10# a day and carry a 5# or even a 20# propane spare if necessary in only the most extremely cold weather. In the summer our 30# main propane tank will easily last 20+ nights.

We have the holding tank black water system and it works fine for us, we have a dump at home. On the road even in the east in the winter, there seems to be plenty of dumps. I have used a blue waste tank for when we have the camper off of the truck for extended periods of time at a campground. If going to the cassette system, then I would want the black tank to able to be used for grey water. I could do that now with very minor modification-simply opening a valve and going to a regular porta potty.

The Apex 8 fits the two of us well. We occasionally camp with our daughter and although its tight, it works. We converted the table bed panel to a table top and its smaller than the normal table, which is quite nice, so that we only carry one inside table.

My wife likes the storage and we need all we can get. The drawer bed is a waste, we have never used it, if there was a 4th person along then maybe.

With the short bed truck we can park in approximately the same space as a Suburban. This is convenient.

We use the standard furnace and have plenty of battery power to run it, we have never felt a need for a different furnace.

The electric tank valves were a problem and now I have manual waste valves which I prefer. I would not go with the electric tank valves.

The electric jacks need maintenance, maybe every 2-3 years. I recently went through them.

A couple of years ago we bought a Thule box for on top, it needs some repairs, I would not buy a Thule box again.

We have the electric popup feature that takes maybe two minutes (at the most) if you count releasing the latches. The camper is largely accessible with the top down.

Would we buy another one, we have never discussed it, the Outfitter fits our needs quite well. Its open and airy. Its comfortable. My wife particularly likes it.

Good luck.

Rick

[Geewizard]

I've had my Outfitter Apex 8 since 2004. Very happy with it.

Here's what I'd do differently if I was getting one today:

-cassette toilet instead of marine toilet and tank.
-12 volt compressor refrigerator (I installed one in 2007)
-no microwave (never used it)
-no stereo and speakers (don't use it)
-install a Propex HeatSource HS2800 10,000 BTU Forced Air Propane Heater instead of the Suburban 20k BTU heater. Why? The Propex fan draws significantly less current than the Suburban thus increasing battery life.
-I have a rear awning and it never gets used.


Here's the modifications I've done to my Apex 8:

-120W solar panel and MPPT solar controller
-Tundra 12V compressor refrigerator
-Xantrex PROsine 1800W inverter
-additional 12v and AC outlets
-all LED lights with additional lights added
-wiring for another 100AH battery with battery switch
-removed microwave and use the space for a small BBQ grill
-removed dinette table (too flimsy, made my own)
-two jerry can holders
-water heater bypass valves for winterizing
-I plan to install a Cameco Wave 3 propane heater.
-I plan to replace the charge controller with a Progressive Dynamics unit



-and all the features of the latest Outfitter TC.

One thing I ordered, and would get again, with my Apex was the Dometic Seitz windows. I really like them.

Steve-in-29 is the man to ask about Outfitters. Search for his posts.

Hope this helps.

[sepeman]

My wife and I did travel out to see both the outfitter and Hallmark in person past week.We liked them both. Now I wanting the opinion of those who had direct dealing with these campers.

[terryrey]

Hi Sepeman: I also have an Outfitter Apex 8 (2011 model) and love it. I carry it on a short bed 2007 Classic GMC 2500HD, Duramax & Allison, 4X4, CC. If you click on the "Advanced Search" feature and then put in "terryrey" in the Author box (leave the "key words" box blank) and then select "Archive - more than 1 year ago" in the date posted drop down and search you will see many of my posts on my Outfitter, including modifications, new owners report, first year's owner's report, and others. Maybe these will give you some additional insight into an Outfitter Apex 8. Terry

[jmtandem]

On these forums 'Steve in 29' can give you a lot of good advice on Outfitter truck campers. Do a search, he has provided a lot of good information.