Payload, is there a right answer?

[Powerdude]

Well, I've learned a lot of stuff here, and I would like to thank you all for lots of valuable input and discussions.

I want to make sure I get this right, assuming there is a right answer.

Truck is a 2016 F250 CC SB XLT with camper package overloads.

I even took it to a scale. Full tank, with just me in it, and the Torqlift camper tiedowns installed. Stableloads are going on tomorrow.

Tires are E rated tires at 3640 lbs each. (18" wheels)

Truck is registered for 12,000 lbs (only other option was 8k lbs, which was too low).
Here's the data.
Sticker
Scaled weight
If I go by the GVWR, payload is only 2460 lbs.
If I go by adding up axle weights, payload is 2840.
If I just add up the rear tire ratings, and subtract scaled weight, payload is 4020 lbs.

If I used the licensed weight, subtracting scaled weight, payload is 4460 lbs.

Calculations here
So which is legal, and which is safe, and what would you do?

I'm aiming for a used 2200-2500 lbs camper (no slide, like a Lance 845 or 825), but a slide (Lance 861, or 821) would be nice to have...and that's 3000 lbs...

Opinions?

[whizbang]

Powerdude,

Your original post nailed the range: 2400 - 4000 pounds.

Yes, you can carry 4000 pounds, but you will have driving/handling issues. Your driving experience with a 2400# load will be much, much better.

How large a camper to get depends on the type of trips you expect to take and how far you expect to drive (short trips=heavy camper, longer trips=lighter camper).

My advice is to stay at or under the 10,000 pound GVWR. However, if you want to carry 4000 pounds, go ahead, you won't break the truck.

[Kayteg1]

SugarHillCTD wrote:

Click For Full-Size Image..

Beware that are campers and campers. Compare rear overhang of those campers above. The 9' camper has much less stuff and center of gravity way in front of rear axle, so the impact is spread between the axles.
The 11.5 camper has all the heavy stuff way behind rear bumper.
120 lb generator
60-90 lb of propane tanks
60-80 lb of batteries
holding tanks that can go > 400 lb
Jacks are heavier too.
All is way in the back, making the COG over the rear axle, or even as I scaled - slightly behind.
That can put rear stress on your rear wheels.
I did not have a chance to check side-to side WD, but in my camper all the heavy stuff is on passenger side, so suspect that can make unpleasant surprise as well.

[Rubiranch]

I had no idea how much my camper weighed until after I bought it.

I just figured my 3/4 ton shouldn't have any problems carrying a 9 ft camper, and it handles it just fine. 🙂

I MARVEL that 150 lbs makes any difference at all.

[Ranger_Tim]

Our truck is a 2006 Ford F350 long bed, single rear wheel crew cab with the King Ranch option package and camper package. This made it weigh (unloaded and empty of everything, even people) 7860 lbs. total. This is called the Gross Vehicle Weight, or GVW. I weighed it at the local CAT scale at the Flying J, with a full tank of fuel and no tailgate.

Factory Specs:
Rear Wheel (each) 3525 lbs.
Our tires (each) 3650
Rear Axle 10,000

If you do the math our rear wheels together have a 7050 lb. capacity, so this becomes the limiting factor, not our tires or axle ratings. The actual truck specs showed a rear max weight of 7000 lbs.

Our truck's rear end empty weighed 3140 at the scale. Subtract that from 7050 and you get 3910, or the most payload that I can safely load onto the rear of the truck. Now this does not take into consideration that I might have been slightly forward on the scale or the curvature of the earth or some other nonsense, so I am happy using this number. However, there is a document that came with the truck that quotes a maximum camper weight of 2815. Huh? Buzzkill! I felt comfortable that I would be close to that weight (wink, wink, nudge, nudge).

The truck is rated to carry 11,500 pounds gross weight, so we are close to that too. Our camper is predicted by the RV gurus to have a weight somewhere between that of a toaster and the space shuttle. My best guess was just over 3000 lbs. The scales told the story in the end.

After a year of camping experiences and stuffing the camper full of stuff it weighed out to about 3200 lbs. This is about 1000 lbs. more than the "dry weight" claimed by the manufacturer and includes a full complement of fresh water, extra battery, 6 gallons in jugs, 400 lbs of passengers, and backseat gear. When traveling I usually leave the water tanks empty and try to dump black and gray asap. This decreases my weight significantly and results in much better handling. I do prefer the truck heavy if encountering high winds however.

With my numbers and make/model/year truck I would not want to go any heavier. This is why I chose the Wolf Creek 840 over the Arctic Fox 811. There were a few other models by other manufacturers in that weight range but for various reasons we preferred the WC. With the StableLoads (upper and lower) there has not been any need for further suspension mods. The truck settled only 1-3/4 inches! Very happy with the outcome. We would not have been happy with a heavier camper and I would have been second guessing myself from then on.

This is a process we all go through. It is not always easy to get a good idea of how things are going to turn out in the end. Due diligence is the recipe for a positive outcome. Do the math, listen to all the viewpoints, don't trust the salesmen, and seek truth. If it feels right it probably is. If it feels like too much it probably is, but you've got to be honest with yourself and resist camper envy/fever. Good luck!

[Powerdude]

Thank you so far for the nice discussion.

The COG is, of course, dependent on the camper. From what I've read, not much weight shifts to the front axle for truck campers. Most of the weight is on the rear axle, which is why I think that's relevant.

I've read somewhere that Ford 18" forged aluminum wheels are rated at 3590#, but that's not much different than an E rated tire at 3640, so that's just a manufacturer covering their butt for legal reasons. And I can't find the source for that number anyway.

I guess the right answer is probably based on experience and comfort level. Since I have no experience with carrying a truck camper, I'd like to thank you all for sharing your experience and opinions.

Given infinite amount of money and time, I'm sure I could come up with the perfect truck and camper combination, one which would satisfy all the weight ratings and numbers and all the legal experts.

Sadly, I don't have that kind of money or time, so I'll just have to take the best guess at it with what I bought off the lot. Unfortunately, I did not have control of the guy who rear-ended my last vehicle, and I had to get a vehicle to get to work, otherwise I probably would have ordered a higher GVWR truck.

Life is interesting that way.

[SugarHillCTD]

Powerdude wrote:
What tires are those? 3970# tire capacity is pretty darned good.

Nitto Dura Grapplers. Highway tread, although I used them for 1 winter where we live in northern NH and they were fine in the snow and ice.

I believe that the 3970# weight rating is for what fits our truck- the 285/75-17 size.

http://www.nittotire.com/light-truck-tires/dura-grappler-highway-terrain-light-truck-tire/

[BigToe]

Powerdude wrote:
Well, I've learned a lot of stuff here, and I would like to thank you all for lots of valuable input and discussions.

I want to make sure I get this right, assuming there is a right answer.

Truck is a 2016 F250 CC SB XLT with camper package overloads.

I even took it to a scale. Full tank, with just me in it, and the Torqlift camper tiedowns installed. Stableloads are going on tomorrow.

Tires are E rated tires at 3640 lbs each. (18" wheels)

Truck is registered for 12,000 lbs (only other option was 8k lbs, which was too low).
Here's the data.
Sticker
Scaled weight
If I go by the GVWR, payload is only 2460 lbs.
If I go by adding up axle weights, payload is 2840.
If I just add up the rear tire ratings, and subtract scaled weight, payload is 4020 lbs.

If I used the licensed weight, subtracting scaled weight, payload is 4460 lbs.

Calculations here
So which is legal, and which is safe, and what would you do?

I'm aiming for a used 2200-2500 lbs camper (no slide, like a Lance 845 or 825), but a slide (Lance 861, or 821) would be nice to have...and that's 3000 lbs...

Opinions?

Unless you know where the center of gravity is, and can predict what the weight distribution will be when adding a camper, and all the goodies needed for camping, and all the people going camping... limiting your consideration of payload to just the rear axle is ill advised. Both axles will bear increased weight, and the proportion of distribution will depend on the design and the contents of the camper, as well as what is placed in the cab.

It sounds like you already know the RIGHT answer to your original question... the chain is only as good as the weakest link. Likewise, the payload capacity of your truck is only as good as the lowest rating. It does not matter if one component in the suite of ratings is rated higher. If the rungs of a ladder are rated for 500 lbs, but the rails of the ladder are only rated for 300 lbs, are you going to send a 375 lb man up that ladder?

That is essentially what you are proposing by ignoring the lowest ratings in your chain, and only considering the highest. I have load range G tires on my truck. They are rated higher than the original tires on my truck. That doesn't change the GVWR of my truck. Even the original tires and wheels to my truck, when added together, exceeded the GVWR of my truck. Still didn't increase the GVWR any.

You've already answered your own question, and in your first post asked for "Opinions?". Well, IMHO, your first answer is correct... your truck has a maximum payload capacity of 2,460 lbs. For liability reasons alone, the best advice is to load within those ratings, or trade the truck for one whose weakest link can still support any higher payloads you may want to carry.

[Powerdude]

SugarHillCTD wrote:
.

This is our EC on our 2015 trip to Canada. Here we are stopped on PEI. As it sits there we have our minimal gear for 10 days plus some food/drink. It has about 1/2 full water tank (25 gallons).
I always set only 30-35# into the airbags. 3970# capacity tires all around (with 70#F/80#R). Sway is handled by a BigWig.

Not bad for a 3/4 ton truck. We like it.

What tires are those? 3970# tire capacity is pretty darned good.

[DOITHARD]

Grit dog wrote:
Oh geez, the truck will haul the campers he's looking at just fine!

Are some of you afraid to leave the house because an overloaded F350 with a truck camper might careen out of control and take you out??
The OP couldn't have asked about a more ideal setup. Mid weight camper on a new, effectively, 1 ton truck.

If I've learned one lesson on rvnet, it will be to make a dedicated effort to not be so fickle when I reach my golden years.....if I don't die from an overloaded truck camper before then!

LOL

[Grit_dog]

Oh geez, the truck will haul the campers he's looking at just fine!

Are some of you afraid to leave the house because an overloaded F350 with a truck camper might careen out of control and take you out??
The OP couldn't have asked about a more ideal setup. Mid weight camper on a new, effectively, 1 ton truck.

If I've learned one lesson on rvnet, it will be to make a dedicated effort to not be so fickle when I reach my golden years.....if I don't die from an overloaded truck camper before then!

[SidecarFlip]

Kayteg1 wrote:
You will find endless list of factors when it comes to TC.
I just ended maiden voyage with my old camper and new truck.
Had it weighted before and surprize, the camper that was 4300lb when I bought it winterized, now is 5600 and I did not load beer yet.
Than driving it for 2 days I had some handling issue. At the time I had 15-20 gallons of gray water in rear tanks.
On day 2 morning I dump the tanks and drove it all over Mojave and Baker grades with excelent handling.
Amazing how the +- 150 lb of weight removed from the rear of camper can change everything.
Now I am thinking about deleting spare wheel.....

I removed my spare wheel and tire from under the back of the bed. It was a heavy steel wheel and tire assembly and removing it certainly made a noticeable handling difference that I could feel in the seat of my pants.

Having said that, I bought a forged aluminum wheel to match my road wheels, fabricated a class 5 receiver hitch for the front of the truck and a spare tire mount and now the polished. forged aluminum spare is on the front of the truck, instead of underneath where it was not only hard to get to, but got grungy and was hard to check the air in the tire.

In as much as I own a fab shop, I copied the front spare tire mount that is comercialy available that swings down to ground level for dismounting the spare. I see a good design, I'm not adverse to copying it.

[SugarHillCTD]

Yeah we are heavy. There are some things that help.

We don't have air conditioning (northern New England makes it possible). Instead we have 2 Fantastic Fans.

I rarely travel with a full water tank. Most times 1/4 full (100#) vs full 50 gallon, (400#).

But I am comfortable with how it feels driving down the road and we tend to be on winding, secondary "country" roads much more than Interstates. It does depend upon how much experience someone has driving a heavily loaded pickup.

This is our EC on our 2015 trip to Canada. Here we are stopped on PEI. As it sits there we have our minimal gear for 10 days plus some food/drink. It has about 1/2 full water tank (25 gallons).
I always set only 30-35# into the airbags. 3970# capacity tires all around (with 70#F/80#R). Sway is handled by a BigWig.

Not bad for a 3/4 ton truck. We like it.

[Kayteg1]

You will find endless list of factors when it comes to TC.
I just ended maiden voyage with my old camper and new truck.
Had it weighted before and surprize, the camper that was 4300lb when I bought it winterized, now is 5600 and I did not load beer yet.
Than driving it for 2 days I had some handling issue. At the time I had 15-20 gallons of gray water in rear tanks.
On day 2 morning I dump the tanks and drove it all over Mojave and Baker grades with excelent handling.
Amazing how the +- 150 lb of weight removed from the rear of camper can change everything.
Now I am thinking about deleting spare wheel.....

[SidecarFlip]

SugarHillCTD wrote:
I was trying to be pleasant and not a weight cop. :W

I had a VERY rude awakening when I drove onto a CAT scale with our Eagle Cap 850. :E

I bet you did and I also bet that weight is in the back of your mind constantly as you drive down the road.

There is a big difference between towing a pull behind or a 5er, and having a barge right up next to your back window and towering over the cab too. Weight is always an issue as well as horizontal and vertical Cg.

Why I went to a pop up from a hard side Lance, weight and handling and I have a one ton long bed diesel and I could always feel the inertia of the Lance going down the road and in the wind. heavy cross winds were always a sweaty palm experience or a dash into a rest area and a trip to the camper for a nap.

I'm curious what a Host Mammoth weighs. I bet it's 5,000 pounds wet. What a barge.