Propane Tanks Question

[fallsrider]

We bought our '95 TT 14 months ago. The seller said he thought both 30 lb. propane tanks were empty. Apparently not, because we just ran out of propane this weekend on the one tank we've been using, and I know there is some in the other tank because I removed it and shook it after we bought the trailer.

All along, I've figured we will eventually need to replace the tanks one at a time as they run out, because they are old and cannot be refilled or converted. 30 lb. tanks are expensive, though.

I contacted my local mobile RV repair guy and asked where is the best place around here to get tanks and get them filled. He said that he converts his trailers (his wife runs a trailer rental business) to regular 20 lb. tanks to make them easy to exchange. He said my cover should work with the smaller 20 lb. tanks.

Has anyone done this, and do you think it is a good idea? We don't run the furnace much because we camp on W/E sites, but we do use the stove, and occasionally heat water on gas. I did get to thinking that there would be less weight to haul around. I just don't want to regret that decision later on if it is better to stay with the 30 lb. tanks.

[JJBIRISH]

The confusion comes from the fact that a metered gallon isn’t a gallon most of the time…

with home heating propane it isn’t a problem because all of the delivery truck meters are required to be adapted to compensate for temperature…
most sellers readily agree to this added expense because without it in cold weather when they sell the most propane they would be short changing themselves…

As far as I know small cylinder propane filling stations are not required to have the ATCD, most likely because each sale is such a small quantity…

But a pound is always a pound…

[beemerphile1]

Here in Ohio most places sell by weight, even Amerigas sells by weight. Others like FJ/Pilot meter and sell by the gallon.

[JJBIRISH]

Propane is always sold by weight but often converted to gallons…

A full 20# tank is full when it has 20# of propane and is 80% full by volume…

The only true measure of propane is by weight or at a temperature of 60* if by volume … obviously we don’t always have those controlled conditions…

A pound of propane has the same BTU content at any temp, a gallon would not…

Propane has a high expansion rate and the tanks, bottles or cylinders (your choice) can be overfilled if filled by volume only without a temperature compensation device…
all home delivery trucks are required to have these devices for home heating propane but unfortunately it isn’t required at all small tank filling stations…

It is never a good idea to fill you tanks in a cold climate when you will be immediately heading to a warm or a hot climate… expansion can cause the tanks to vent off the excess gas into the atmosphere and be dangerous at times…
It is not always a good idea in the southwest to fill the tanks when going to cold high altitude locations… some propane sold in the SW has a higher concentration of butane in the propane that is less suitable for use in cold temperatures…

Best bet is to fill the tanks near the area where they will be used, although that isn’t always possible…

I would like to know how a 20 pound cylinder can be filled to 18 or 20 pounds of liquid from a bulk vapor delivery system…

[Old-Biscuit]

jaycocreek wrote:

Question: How is propane weighed or measured?

Answer: Propane can be measured in a few manners. The most common way is by gallons. It can also be measured by pounds (one gallon = 4.2lbs). When measured in gallons, a meter at the pump is used to determine the amount of propane that has been filled into a tank. When measured in pounds, the tare (empty starting) weight of the tank must be known first. After this weight is taken into account, the tank is then filled to capacity with the correct volume. (i.e. A BBQ tank is commonly referred to as a 20lb tank. This is because these tanks hold 20lbs or approximately five gallons of propane).

Humm..Just never seen it sold by the pound but evidently it is in some places..

Note this guy from propane sales and service calling a BBQ tank a tank instead of a cylinder..How dare them.:B

That is because he is in sales/service and doesn't know better.

cylinders are portable and under DOT jurisdiction
tanks are permanent mount vessels and under ACME
(and no.......being lifted/transported/set at your house does not make them 'portable' nor are they 'portable' because the are in a moving vehicle)

[jaycocreek]

Question: How is propane weighed or measured?

Answer: Propane can be measured in a few manners. The most common way is by gallons. It can also be measured by pounds (one gallon = 4.2lbs). When measured in gallons, a meter at the pump is used to determine the amount of propane that has been filled into a tank. When measured in pounds, the tare (empty starting) weight of the tank must be known first. After this weight is taken into account, the tank is then filled to capacity with the correct volume. (i.e. A BBQ tank is commonly referred to as a 20lb tank. This is because these tanks hold 20lbs or approximately five gallons of propane).

Humm..Just never seen it sold by the pound but evidently it is in some places..

Note this guy from propane sales and service calling a BBQ tank a tank instead of a cylinder..How dare them.:B

[fallsrider]

There's a gas station/convenience store/wine shop combo place near here that refills 20 lb cylinders only. They have a scale they set your tank on, and when it reaches a certain weight, they stop. I don't know what weight they have it set to. And you pay a set price for a refill, so even if you have some propane left in the cylinder, you still pay for a full cylinder.

It works out OK for the cylinders we use on our grill, because I never remove them from the grill until they are empty. But you lose if you have a partial cylinder.

[jaycocreek]

Also since some retailers sell LPG by the pound and others sell it by the gallon

Never ever seen it sold by the pound. Where do they do that?

It's all gallons around here and always has been and that's why most everyone calls them 5-7 or 25 gallon tanks.

[beemerphile1]

jaycocreek wrote:

...There is an interesting article about propane out there that some of you should read.

It's called "Geeking out over Propane" by Amerigas.:B

Sometimes there is to much Geeking out on a lot of RV subjects when it could be alot less technical for the average Joe.

Not sure of the definition of "Geeking" but if it means a strive for accuracy, I'm all for it. Written communication requires accuracy in the use of names and labels.

If I am standing beside someone and they call a cylinder a tank, I know what they mean. If I am reading a discussion of a tank, I assume it is a tank, not a cylinder.

Also since some retailers sell LPG by the pound and others sell it by the gallon, how do you compare prices? It is easy if you know how much a gallon weighs, impossible if you don't. That little bit of accurate information affects your wallet.

I work in the engineering and architectural field. Directions can only be followed correctly if the originator uses the correct name/terminology. Correct names and terms avoid confusion and costly mistakes.

[fallsrider]

This one?

Geeking out over Propane

[jaycocreek]

I'll say 14 gallons and call it a day.

Me too!

There is an interesting article about propane out there that some of you should read...

It's called "Geeking out over Propane" by Amerigas.:B

Sometimes there is to much Geeking out on a lot of RV subjects when it could be alot less technical for the average Joe.

[fallsrider]

Old-Biscuit wrote:

fallsrider wrote:

jaycocreek wrote:
:B

Propane topics always make me chuckle. Tank/cylinder or gallons/pounds. Used to be all gallons like 5 gallon or 7 gallon tanks now pounds is more politically correct in some circles.

But when they fill it you pay for gallons not pounds! :@

Does "So now I am good to go for a LONG time with 14.6 gallons of propane" make you feel better? 😄

Propane weighs 4.24# per gallon at 60*F

So you might only have 14.1509433962 gallons total in your 2 cylinders cause tanks are not weighed when filling :B

You're right. I saw two web sites that said 4.11 lbs/gallon. That must be at a different temperature. I'll say 14 gallons and call it a day. 🙂

[Old-Biscuit]

fallsrider wrote:

jaycocreek wrote:
:B

Propane topics always make me chuckle. Tank/cylinder or gallons/pounds. Used to be all gallons like 5 gallon or 7 gallon tanks now pounds is more politically correct in some circles.

But when they fill it you pay for gallons not pounds! :@

Does "So now I am good to go for a LONG time with 14.6 gallons of propane" make you feel better? 😄

Propane weighs 4.24# per gallon at 60*F

So you might only have 14.1509433962 gallons total in your 2 cylinders cause tanks are not weighed when filling :B

[fallsrider]

jaycocreek wrote:
:B

Propane topics always make me chuckle. Tank/cylinder or gallons/pounds. Used to be all gallons like 5 gallon or 7 gallon tanks now pounds is more politically correct in some circles.

But when they fill it you pay for gallons not pounds! :@

Does "So now I am good to go for a LONG time with 14.6 gallons of propane" make you feel better? 😄

[Caveman_Charlie]

jaycocreek wrote:
:B

Propane topics always make me chuckle. Tank/cylinder or gallons/pounds. Used to be all gallons like 5 gallon or 7 gallon tanks now pounds is more politically correct in some circles.

But when they fill it you pay for gallons not pounds! :@

I just fill my own on the farm from the big farm tank. I use a wore out bathroom weight scale, and fill my 20 pound tanks to about 18 pounds over what they weigh when empty. That way I don't worry about any of the small stuff. I run one of the modern , new tanks, with the new style valve in case I need to exchange it somewhere. My second tank I use as a back up and it's still the old style valve.