Pulled the Trigger on LiFePo4

[adamis]

After much thought and a few posts in the past, I have finally pulled the trigger on a 12v, 100AH Battle Born LiFePo4 battery for my 2001 Bigfoot 10.6. It will be arriving on Wednesday and I will be installing it on Thursday. Instead of purchasing on Amazon, I called them directly. I was able to get a $50 military discount they were kind enough to offer and saved on Sales Tax as well (out of state). Out the door for $899.00. Now before everyone gets excited about how I could have gotten twice the capacity for half the cost, I had reasons for going this route...

1. Able to remove camper from truck. My old 6v 300AH Lifelines were stored in the bed of the truck requiring a long umbilical cord that had to be disconnected if I removed the camper.

2. Saved 150lbs of weight (30 lbs versus 180 lbs for AGM).

3. Able to use existing battery compartment that is limited in size on Bigfoots.

4. Wanted something that could charge faster than my AGMs

5. Built in Battery Monitoring System prevents over charging / discharging so less to worry about.

6. Usable capacity is probably higher than my 300AH AGMs that I could only draw 150AH from to be safe and considering they were 10 years old, probably had less than half of that capacity.

In regards to cost, yes, it was more than had I gone with AGMs but I had some points on my credit card to use up so this really cost me $500 out of pocket and the benefits I think were worth it.

I'll post my experiences on this thread over time so others can learn from my early adopter experience.

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And now for some photos of the install... I took some comparison images of a standard car battery as well as my old 6v Lifelines. I haven't measured it yet but I think it might be possible to get two of these into the Bigfoot battery compartment. I think one will be sufficient for me however.

[work2much]

I haven't any issues with temperatures. Highest was 112 in AZ and lowest was 26 degrees. The battery compartment (where the generator would normally reside) shares a wall with the heated basement so the batteries are somewhat heated. Checking in the morning the bank has never been below 40 degrees.

With LFP you can discharge your batteries at pretty much any temp but if you are in extreme cold and the batteries themselves do drop below freezing you shouldn't charge them, at least with anything more than a small trickle. If extreme cold is something you like it would be better to heat the compartment or move them inside.

[pianotuna]

Google is your friend:

good temperature working range (-20°C to 70°C). For my American Friends that is -4 f to 158 f.

I don't think I'd go to 70 C myself.

https://upcommons.upc.edu/bitstream/handle/2099.1/26410/David_Balaguer.pdf?sequence=1&isAllowed=y

JoeChiOhki wrote:
I'm curious to see how they do with charging in high temp areas, as heat + lithium ferrophosphate (What LiFePO stands for) = Bad and on most lithium battery powered equipment it will stop charging if they get too warm. My guess is if the ambient temperatures go past a certain point (Greater than 80 degrees is my guess), you may not be able to fully recharge the battery until it cools off (As part of the protection mechanism on the battery).

[JoeChiOhki]

adamis wrote:
For anyone interested, I posted some pics on my original post of this thread. Installation was very easy, just plug and play.

I'm curious to see how they do with charging in high temp areas, as heat + lithium ferrophosphate (What LiFePO stands for) = Bad and on most lithium battery powered equipment it will stop charging if they get too warm. My guess is if the ambient temperatures go past a certain point (Greater than 80 degrees is my guess), you may not be able to fully recharge the battery until it cools off (As part of the protection mechanism on the battery).

[adamis]

For anyone interested, I posted some pics on my original post of this thread. Installation was very easy, just plug and play.

[adamis]

pianotuna wrote:
Hi,

I've personally charged lead acid flooded jars at -37 c (-34 f). What is necessary is adequate temperature compensated charging voltage.

If you did that to an LI it would either refuse (bms) or be destroyed.

adamis wrote:

I'm not sure there are many batteries that would be very happy in as cold of an environment as you would encounter on a regular basis.

I think if there is one inherent advantage to LiFePo batteries is the integrated Battery Monitoring System (BMS) that takes the guesswork out of charging and discharging. The BattleBorn BMS has built in high and low temperature protection so I won't have to worry about accidentally damaging the batteries in cold weather.

BMS systems could be deployed to lead acid batteries as well but I don't think we will see that very soon because manufacturers would have to change their AH capacity to be truthful to what the BMS will allow discharge to without causing long term damage to the capacity. This is typically around ~50% of rated capacity pus or minus a few points?

On another note... Just got the battery in the mail yesterday. Will be picking up the camper from the storage yard today or tomorrow to install. I'll take some pictures to share as I work on it.

[2oldman]

If you're considering buying Li's, probably best to plan on avoiding cold weather IF you can't keep those very expensive batteries in a warmer place.

This thread is still in truck campers. Later on I'm not going to look for it here.

[pianotuna]

Hi,

I've personally charged lead acid flooded jars at -37 c (-34 f). What is necessary is adequate temperature compensated charging voltage.

If you did that to an LI it would either refuse (bms) or be destroyed.

adamis wrote:

I'm not sure there are many batteries that would be very happy in as cold of an environment as you would encounter on a regular basis.

[thedavidzoo]

I have 400Ah Lithium (LiFeMnPO4) batteries, different manufacturer and maybe slightly different chemistry. However, I CANNOT charge them if they are at freezing temps. Discharging them when frozen is ok. Mine are inside under the dinette, so no problems. You might want to double check to make sure.

[2oldman]

adamis wrote:
I'm not sure there are many batteries that would be very happy in as cold of an environment as you would encounter on a regular basis. .

When I had acids they weren't very robust in cold weather.

[adamis]

Freep wrote:

2oldman wrote:
According to the manual, the spec on that battery is 25F.

That's a shame. I camp when it's in the twenties and teens sometimes. I was really tempted to sell my Lifelines and upgrade.

I'm not sure there are many batteries that would be very happy in as cold of an environment as you would encounter on a regular basis. On the Bigfoot, the battery compartment is not in a heated compartment and the access door actually has slats in it for ventilation. Being from California, freezing temps are not as much of a concern for me as where you are at.

That being said, if I did end up taking a long road trip and ended up in some cold weather for an extended period I could easily move this single battery under the dinette seating. The compact size and light weight would make this an easy project to tackle.

[Grit_dog]

2oldman wrote:

Freep wrote:

2oldman wrote:
According to the manual, the spec on that battery is 25F.

That's a shame. I camp when it's in the twenties and teens sometimes. I was really tempted to sell my Lifelines and upgrade.

That is a bit high for a lifepo. If you keep the battery in a heated space, like a basement, shouldn't be an issue. You can even keep it inside the coach, wiring permitted.

Neither of which optimal or is an even remotely acceptable option unless one is using/heating their camper 24/7/365, OR never crosses over the Mason Dixon line between October and April.

[2oldman]

Freep wrote:

2oldman wrote:
According to the manual, the spec on that battery is 25F.

That's a shame. I camp when it's in the twenties and teens sometimes. I was really tempted to sell my Lifelines and upgrade.

That is a bit high for a lifepo. If you keep the battery in a heated space, like a basement, shouldn't be an issue. You can even keep it inside the coach, wiring permitted.

[Freep]

2oldman wrote:
According to the manual, the spec on that battery is 25F.

That's a shame. I camp when it's in the twenties and teens sometimes. I was really tempted to sell my Lifelines and upgrade.

[Chuck_and_Di]

pianotuna wrote:
Hi theoldwizard1,

The lowest safe charging temperature I've seen is -4 f (-20 c). You can draw from them--but not recharge them.

theoldwizard1 wrote:
Lithium batteries do not do well in cold weather (below 10-20F?) but charging or discharging them warms them up so don't be afraid to use them !

Further to that, Lithium actually has much better cold weather performance than other technologies when it comes to putting out current.

[pianotuna]

Hi theoldwizard1,

The lowest safe charging temperature I've seen is -4 f (-20 c). You can draw from them--but not recharge them.

theoldwizard1 wrote:
Lithium batteries do not do well in cold weather (below 10-20F?) but charging or discharging them warms them up so don't be afraid to use them !