Purchasing first TT, need opinions on model and tow help

[mlayton]

*** edited to say: with help here, we understand how the weights work better and our limits with the tongue weight. The Jayflight is not an option and the White Hawk may even push the limits. Still have questions as you read on in the posts, but wanted to address this for those trying to help us!

We are looking at the Jayco Jay Flight 28BHBE vs. the lighter weight WhiteHawk Ultralight 28DSBH. We are brand new to this market and would appreciate some help - not attached to a sales person! We liked the overall look and amenities of the heavier, Jay Flight but we concerned about towing, pushing too close to the tow limits. We have:

2012 Ford Expedition EL with a class IV upgraded tow package (max loaded trailer weight of 8700 lbs and a hitch receiver weight capacity of 890 lbs.

The Jay Flight has a unloaded weight of 6430 lbs and a dry hitch weight of 665 lbs.

Here are out thoughts -- even loaded, the TT should be under the capacity, based on estimates we found reading to factor in about 400 lbs of assorted "stuff" - pots, pans, bikes, another generous 200 lbs for 4 bikes and potentially up to 86 gallons (700 lbs) of water. Bringing our grand total to just over 7700 lbs, still below the max loaded trailer weight of 8700 lbs.

We plan to mostly camp at designated sites so we BELIEVE you travel with no water but are not positive yet which affects the weight quite a bit.

Our question is that we have not towed a lot and is this too close to the tow limits to make for a reasonable ride. Also, the sales person told us that the heavier trailer would actually have a smooter ride and would be his preference because the Jay Flight is "stick and tin" construction vs. the White Hawk Aluminum and fiberglass. He basically said if we can tow it, get this model. We have gotten mixed "opinions" based on the sales person and the model they are pushing! We need some unbiased help please.

Does anyone have this model and would care to chime in as well - is this a good one or should we move on to another model/brand all together? Any advice, resources we should read, etc. as we try to learn more for such a big purchase would be much appreciated.

[jonitza]

WE looked at both trailers and purchased the WhiteHawk. It fits our Armada perfect which has a litter better tow #s then the Expy. If this is your first experience like ours, you want it to fun but most of all safe for you and others on the road. The cargo bay's and inside storage will fill up fast with normal camping gear and toys, which all adds weight to the trailer. I did not want white knuckle driving everytime we were on the road because we were over our weights. Wheres the fun in that. The whiteHawk is a awesome trailer and tows great.

[mlayton]

Thanks "Chuck & Gail", like I said - we are trying to learn and understand better so I appreciate the time to answer! So if I read correctly, we CANNOT consider the heavier JayFLight with this vehicle. You are saying we should be OK with the lighter weight version though. If we load up the truck with just what would normally be in it for a trip (dogs, kids, gas, etc. but likely minimal other "stuff" because it's all in the TT), go weigh just the front two tires - get that number and check the front axle rating then pull forward to just the rear 2 tires and get that weight and then add on the 890# and see if we are in range of the GAWR. It sounds like we need to buy the 2013 Towing guide from Ford to double check our specks. Thanks again!!!!

[Chuck_Gail]

Putting a 12000# hitch on a Pinto does NOT increase its tow rating. As far as I know all TV manufacturers spec a max tongue weight for their VEHICLE. Note I said VEHICLE, not receiver spec. One hopes the receivers have a spec as high or higher than the VEHICLE spec. Changing the receiver does NOT change the vehicle spec, at least on any SUV's I've seen. As it happens I have the 2010 manual Ford publishes for their vehicles that can tow, it is part numbert RV-VER8535-0909. I'm sure they publish one every year. They are available at any Ford (or for that matter Chevy, or GMC) dealer. Sorry Passin Thru, but specs is specs and personally I do not ever recommend ignoring them.

As far as the 10% versus 13 to 15%, it is because of the hardsided TT frontal area. You are basically pulling a big sail down the road. If you are towing a boat, or popup, the frontal area is much smaller, and the 10% works.

Dry tongue weight really has no meaning once you load the TT, just as UVW isn't much help except as a starting point.

A 6000# TT needs a tongue weight of 780# to 900#, so you are ok there. As far as your GAWR, why not load up your Exp as IF you were going to tow, kids, dogs, gas, stuff, and all. Now find a handy scale, like at a bulk feed store or a sand and gravel supplier. Weigh your front and rear axle. Now assume you add 890# more to the rear axle weight. Are you within your Exp GAWR? If so, you are good to go. If not, you need a smaller TT or a bigger TV IMHO.

Hope that helps a little.

[mlayton]

Thanks Passin Thru. Are you saying to entirely replace the exsisting hitch and replace it with one rated to 12000 lbs and then add the weight dirstributor? I just checked and the numbers I quoted before of 890# tounge weight is off the Ford site, for our hitch taking into account that we have an extended cab.

So with a different hitch, that can better support the tounge weight (if I'm reading the specs correctly) means the truck itself is rated to pull a max of 8700# which we would be in range for with the heavier JayFlight.

[wallacemf]

We have a new 2013 28BHBE, we are towing it with a 2012 F150 5.0 XLT 4x4 Supercrew. Our trailer as optioned weighs in at 7068# according to the decal on the door, take a look at yours because the trailer options add significant weight. We are using an Equalizer 1k/10k WD hitch.

Your tow capacities are not too far off from ours, I might have a bit more payload at 1625#. We haul very little fresh water, just so the kids can use the potty if there is nowhere to stop. We travel with the other tanks empty. We generally do short trips, 200 miles or less.

I think you'd be fine with a WD hitch set up correctly. Don't haul anything that you don't really need, try to keep your weight as low as possible.

[mlayton]

Our rear GAWR is 4250# according to the truck specks. There are 4 of us, 2 adults and 2 boys, age 6&8yrs. We also plan to take our 2 dogs, about 70 lbs each (so another 140#).

For the bikes, that model TT comes with a rear bike rack on the trailer so I understand it would not add directly to the rear GAWR - is this correct?

Excuse our inexperience but why is it 13-15% when the trailer specs report 10.3% (dry hitch weight 665 and unloaded weight 6430#). Does this ratio change once it's loaded or do you just always use the 13-15%?

With minimal water, we'd be closer to maybe 7000# which it sounds like you are saying would still be over our tow capacity or close. Are you saying even the lightweight White Hawk may not be possible either (uloaded weight 5290# - loaded weight closer to 6000#, dry hitch weight 590#)????

I appreciate the feedback and this is why we are asking!

[Passin_Thru]

I dont know why you guys always worry about tongue weight. Get a 12000 lb hitch. The thing bounces up and down so it could go from 0 to 2000 lb. Load it with everything and get a Reese Dual cam or similar Weight distribution hitch. Set it according to MFG or internet instructions and then go to a scale and weigh it. Your axle weight is your main concern. You want Steering and Rear to be within 800 lb with the 800 to the rear. The trailer axles should be the same approx weight. You will have proper tongue weight at that time. You should not exceed GCVWR which is probably around 18 K but it is stated in your owners manual. I have delivered around 300 trailers and have a goood idea how to do it now. (If its a diesel it may be 20-22K.)

[Chuck_Gail]

Ok, 7700# FULLY LOADED. Tongue weight needs to be 13% to 15%, so 1001# to 1155#. So, you are over your Exp 890# tongue weight spec. You didn't say if you were alone, or with family, and how many. TRhe four bikes worry me you see. That is important as your Exp rear GAWR will likely be exceeded, even if there are just two of you and you put all "stuff" in the TT.

Now if you do not tow with water you might be ok, but again, how many are you?

We tow with our Exp, and love it, but our tongue weight limit is higher. We NEVER tow with waste tanks full, and only carry minimal water. With just wife and I and 58# Aussie on board, we are VERY close to our TV rear GAWR. If we had kids also, we would be exceeding our rear GAWR.

Just food for thought.