Question 2 - Should wind affect a good set up truck

[samhain7]

Interesting question #2.
I have had my trailer/truck combo for two years and never had a problem towing. (set up is in my signature)
We were towing home this weekend and although I can't determine the wind, the weather channel said gusting 40kmh (25mph).
Our drive home was pretty treacherous and I felt like I was being blown all over the road. I had to travel around 90kmh just to keep control and there were some white knuckle moments.
Should those types of winds do that for a properly set up truck and trailer. I pretty much tow the same weight, and have not adjusted my trailer/truck/hitch set up since I first set it up.

[whjco]

I used to have an E350 Ford van with a 7.3 that did a great job of towing. On one trip, we were traveling through South Dakota with a heavy wind that was coming from the right front. It was the only time that I couldn't tow in overdrive and the fuel consumption was the highest of any time that I owned the van. I had a Ford Explorer pulling a U-Haul pass me on my left and I was ready for when he came up to the leeward side of our trailer. Sure enough, he suddenly lurched right and I had to hit the shoulder of the Interstate to keep him from hitting me.

One amusing occurrence was when a guy on a motorcycle passed us. He was laying over at about a 30 degree angle but was going straight down the Interstate.

[Acdii]

CavemanCharlie wrote:

Acdii wrote:

CavemanCharlie wrote:


Letting up on the "Go Pedal" when it starts wiggling is the wrong thing to do. Slow and Steady wins the race. Keeping up a constant speed is best. You want to tow the trailer and not let it push you !

On the other hand, Having your had ready to tap the brakes if needed is the perfect thing to do !! Kudos to you for knowing that.

I don't know who taught you that, but that is actually incorrect. Increasing speed can and will amplify the sway. Backing off the throttle when sway begins is the correct way to manage sway, OTOH if sway is to the point where the TV is moving left and right, tapping the trailer brakes before letting up is the only method that will prevent a jack knife. If you don't have trailer brakes, and you let sway build up to where the TV is moving, then you are screwed.
.

I understand. I did not explain myself very well. I do that a lot. I did not mean to say that you should Increase your speed. I was just afraid that you, or someone else, would take there foot completely off of the throttle. Doing that on some vehicles would cause the tow vehicle to start pushing and you don't want that.

I usually just hold my speed steady and tap the trailer brakes. No one taught me this. There are no towing classes around here.

I wish there was. Heck, they threw me in the semi and told me to drive it without ever telling me how. lol

Ahh that makes more sense now, thanks for clarifying. If everyone who got a license was forced to drive a semi for a few hundred miles, they would have a lot more respect for the big rigs, that is for sure! 🙂 Once you go big though, the smaller rigs come second nature. I was a bit surprised when I got my Gieco quote for the trailer and they asked if I had a CDL for a discount.

[CavemanCharlie]

myredracer wrote:




Every time you get hit by a hard sudden blast of side wind, the driver tries to maintain a straight course on the road by making a steering wheel correction but when the wind suddenly slows down or stops for a moment, you will have over-corrected somewhat which then makes it harder to control. The continual left/right movement of the TT will be harder to control the faster you are going. The only thing you can do is really slow down and better yet, pull over and stop.
.

Which is why you should not correct for those little side trailer movements. Hold the wheel straight and keep towing. Of course, there are times when you have to move the wheel a little. However, some people are constantly steering going down the road. Soon they get themselves into a over-steer situation.

[CavemanCharlie]

Acdii wrote:

CavemanCharlie wrote:


Letting up on the "Go Pedal" when it starts wiggling is the wrong thing to do. Slow and Steady wins the race. Keeping up a constant speed is best. You want to tow the trailer and not let it push you !

On the other hand, Having your had ready to tap the brakes if needed is the perfect thing to do !! Kudos to you for knowing that.

I don't know who taught you that, but that is actually incorrect. Increasing speed can and will amplify the sway. Backing off the throttle when sway begins is the correct way to manage sway, OTOH if sway is to the point where the TV is moving left and right, tapping the trailer brakes before letting up is the only method that will prevent a jack knife. If you don't have trailer brakes, and you let sway build up to where the TV is moving, then you are screwed.
.

I understand. I did not explain myself very well. I do that a lot. I did not mean to say that you should Increase your speed. I was just afraid that you, or someone else, would take there foot completely off of the throttle. Doing that on some vehicles would cause the tow vehicle to start pushing and you don't want that.

I usually just hold my speed steady and tap the trailer brakes. No one taught me this. There are no towing classes around here.

I wish there was. Heck, they threw me in the semi and told me to drive it without ever telling me how. lol

[chracatoa]

myredracer wrote:
We drove from Spokane to Seattle on the I-90 once with gusting side winds around 40+ mph. It felt like I was towing on marbles and was a pretty unnerving feeling even when I slowed to well under 50 mph. We pulled over at a truck stop and a semi driver told us that they can sometimes get blown over. Got to the CG and someone there said he has seen some FWs on their side along that I-90 stretch.

I know what you are talking about. Ellensburg & Cle Elum all the way down to the Columbia river. We drove through there in my first trip and I almost gave up on driving trailers. It turns out it's always like that there which explain the windmills.

Actually, anywhere near the Columbia river seems to be windy.

[Community Alumni]

I don't think unloading the front suspension would really be a concern unless your vehicle is prone to wheelies when unloaded lol. It would take quite a bit of oomph to unload the suspension that much, at speed, and with a WDH applying weight additional weight.

[Acdii]

Interestingly enough, I have been reading my online owners manual, and it has a section on how to handle the trailer, including a full section on sway and fishtailing, and it confirms what I was taught in CDL classes and Skid Pad.

The moment your trailer shows any tendency to sway,
you should slow down immediately by removing your
foot from the accelerator. Avoid strong or hard tow
vehicle braking unless there is a danger of collision.
Reduce speed gradually whenever possible. Apply the
brakes gently and progressively. A properly adjusted
brake controller will apply the trailer brakes first. If
you can do so safely, use the brake hand controller to
gradually apply the trailer brakes. This will help to keep
the vehicles aligned. If you apply the tow vehicle brakes
only, trailer stability will be reduced, and skidding the
tow vehicle tires can cause loss of control and jackknif-
ing.

If you have enough reserve power, and the sway is not pushing the TV, a burst of speed could overcome it, but it could also overwhelm the TV since the front end will pick up, making the steer tires light, and if a wind gust hits you at just the wrong moment, you could very well lose it. I know there is a huge difference between an 18 wheeler weighing in at 80,000# vs a small pickup with a tag along behind it, but physics is still physics no matter what the size. The heavier trucks are less prone to sway than the tall light trailers we tow, but an empty van does the exact same thing on a windy day.

I found the best way to beat sway is to drive slower on a windy gusty day. I just got back from a 3 day trip with my 6x12 Enclosed trailer, and both drives were with heavy winds, and I felt it hitting the trailer, but since it is small, only 8' tall, and well balanced, it wasn't causing any TV issues, but the Coleman I have, that one would have been a handful on this trip. One thing I do know, if the trailer has a low center of gravity, they fair much better on a windy day. I used to pull my 7000# horse trailer with a 97 Ford Explorer, and while it had plenty of power, it was short coupled, and passing semi's always sent me moving, but the trailer remained rock steady in cross winds. It never ever swayed on me. It was only when the semi got to my rear bumper of the Explorer that I got pushed over. When I pulled it empty with a 2001 F150, didn't even feel it back there, all the weight was centered just above the axles. With 2 horses it was fun, you could feel them moving back there while driving.

[Community Alumni]

Surprisingly, sudden acceleration can pull a trailer out of a sway event. I've done so with plenty of trailers. The acceleration must be quick and sharp and the steering must remain straight. It's easier to accomplish this with smaller trailers. Trucks pulling heavier trailers normally lack the ability to create the sudden acceleration when heavily loaded. So truck ends up accelerating more gradually which only makes things worse. Not the best method for getting under control, but in some situations it works.

[Durb]

One thing you might consider especially if your weight distribution hitch has friction sway control built in and is dependent upon spring bar force. Could be the return trip is different than at departure. Did you burn all the firewood loaded in the bed of the truck? Did you drink all the beer and eat all the food? Was it cold and you burned through a bunch of propane? Could be you are towing back considerably lighter then when you set up your hitch. Less weight on the tongue and in the bed of the truck will raise your hitch and change the bar angle. This will result in unloading of the bars and possible diminish the effectiveness of your sway control.

One more thing to think about.

[myredracer]

We drove from Spokane to Seattle on the I-90 once with gusting side winds around 40+ mph. It felt like I was towing on marbles and was a pretty unnerving feeling even when I slowed to well under 50 mph. We pulled over at a truck stop and a semi driver told us that they can sometimes get blown over. Got to the CG and someone there said he has seen some FWs on their side along that I-90 stretch.

It's another case of physics and a simplification is: The lateral force of gusting perpendicular side winds are relatively evenly distributed along the side of a TT. If your axles are approx. 2/3 the way back from front of the TT, every time old man wind pushes hard on the side, the 1/3 behind the axles and the 1/3 in front of the axles cancel out. What's left is the 1/3 portion at the front end portion of the TT and every time a gust pushes hard and suddenly lets go, you will most definitely get moved side to side from the net lateral force. There's no escaping the effect and the longer the TT, the more it will get pushed sideways. Height is also a factor of course.

Every time you get hit by a hard sudden blast of side wind, the driver tries to maintain a straight course on the road by making a steering wheel correction but when the wind suddenly slows down or stops for a moment, you will have over-corrected somewhat which then makes it harder to control. The continual left/right movement of the TT will be harder to control the faster you are going. The only thing you can do is really slow down and better yet, pull over and stop.

Gusting sidewinds are not the same as sway. A tractor trailer pulled by a semi has different dynamics going on because there is a set of wheels close to the front and another close to the rear and aren't a good comparison to a TT, except for maybe height.

[Acdii]

CavemanCharlie wrote:


Letting up on the "Go Pedal" when it starts wiggling is the wrong thing to do. Slow and Steady wins the race. Keeping up a constant speed is best. You want to tow the trailer and not let it push you !

On the other hand, Having your had ready to tap the brakes if needed is the perfect thing to do !! Kudos to you for knowing that.

I don't know who taught you that, but that is actually incorrect. Increasing speed can and will amplify the sway. Backing off the throttle when sway begins is the correct way to manage sway, OTOH if sway is to the point where the TV is moving left and right, tapping the trailer brakes before letting up is the only method that will prevent a jack knife. If you don't have trailer brakes, and you let sway build up to where the TV is moving, then you are screwed.

I got my Class A back in 1988 and did some skid pad training, and you want to talk about skid marks, if that don't make you want to fudge your undies...... The instructors had given good advice on many situations, sway control being one of them, another is when you blow a steer tire, in which case, you better hope you have some horses in reserve, because in that situation you want to mash the go pedal to lift the front end up so you can regain control, and then slow down. They were right, I did have a steer tire blow, and I instantly mashed the skinny stick, all due to training on the skid pad. You get this butt training that tells you something isn't right, and can react to it almost immediately. The sway I encountered was one of those things, I never let the trailer control the truck, as soon as I felt it move a little off center, I let up on the gas, let the trailer settle in, then got back on the gas and continued on. You are right though, slow and steady is key, but you do have to let off the gas when the trailer starts to go off center, and before it takes control of the TV.

[CavemanCharlie]

Acdii wrote:
I just got a Coleman 274BH, and drove it home with my F150. I weighed the entire rig, with full tank of fuel, and empty water/waste tanks. Looks like weight distribution is good, have 400# difference between front and rear axles, and 4800# for the trailer. I have a Husky WDH with 800# bars, The TV setup is incorrect though, and I am a little miffed that Camping World didn't go the extra step and readjust my hitch so the trailer was level and not nose up, I mean what is that $995 prep fee for anyway?

Anyhow, the winds today were very strong, 15-20 MPH steady with gusts up to 30+, and sway was a killer for me. It was NNW winds and I was heading southeast, so it was quartering me. I could see the trailer wagging tail on my mirrors, so drove home doing 60-65, took foot off the go pedal when it started wagging, with my hand ready to tap the trailer brakes if needed. While it wasn't white knuckle bad, it was still enough to make my first trip with the trailer uncomfortable. I don't know if having the trailer perfectly level would have reduced the amount of sway or not, but I am looking to get a different WDH that has sway control built in.

Hard to imagine the TT is lower than my horse trailer, and I thought it would be the other way around.

Letting up on the "Go Pedal" when it starts wiggling is the wrong thing to do. Slow and Steady wins the race. Keeping up a constant speed is best. You want to tow the trailer and not let it push you !

On the other hand, Having your had ready to tap the brakes if needed is the perfect thing to do !! Kudos to you for knowing that.

[RedRocket204]

Acdii wrote:
... The TV setup is incorrect though, and I am a little miffed that Camping World didn't go the extra step and readjust my hitch so the trailer was level and not nose up, I mean what is that $995 prep fee for anyway?

Anyhow, the winds today were very strong, 15-20 MPH steady with gusts up to 30+, and sway was a killer for me. It was NNW winds and I was heading southeast, so it was quartering me. I could see the trailer wagging tail on my mirrors, so drove home doing 60-65, took foot off the go pedal when it started wagging, with my hand ready to tap the trailer brakes if needed. While it wasn't white knuckle bad, it was still enough to make my first trip with the trailer uncomfortable. I don't know if having the trailer perfectly level would have reduced the amount of sway or not, but I am looking to get a different WDH that has sway control built in.

You shouldn't have to be dealing with that experience and sounds like one you can deal with given that you are motivated to adjust it correctly.

Level trailer or even slightly nose down. Side/side load balance and heavier nose load of the trailer to bring your tongue weight up some approaching and preferably into the 12-15% tongue weight range. This should be a much more stable tow even with winds as you describe. Granted this is still with a properly setup WDH but trailer loading can and will make a difference. Winds can still push you around but should be in a tandem push, not an independent trailer push like sway.

[Acdii]

I just got a Coleman 274BH, and drove it home with my F150. I weighed the entire rig, with full tank of fuel, and empty water/waste tanks. Looks like weight distribution is good, have 400# difference between front and rear axles, and 4800# for the trailer. I have a Husky WDH with 800# bars, The TV setup is incorrect though, and I am a little miffed that Camping World didn't go the extra step and readjust my hitch so the trailer was level and not nose up, I mean what is that $995 prep fee for anyway?

Anyhow, the winds today were very strong, 15-20 MPH steady with gusts up to 30+, and sway was a killer for me. It was NNW winds and I was heading southeast, so it was quartering me. I could see the trailer wagging tail on my mirrors, so drove home doing 60-65, took foot off the go pedal when it started wagging, with my hand ready to tap the trailer brakes if needed. While it wasn't white knuckle bad, it was still enough to make my first trip with the trailer uncomfortable. I don't know if having the trailer perfectly level would have reduced the amount of sway or not, but I am looking to get a different WDH that has sway control built in.

Hard to imagine the TT is lower than my horse trailer, and I thought it would be the other way around.