Question about TT suspension

[speedy72vega]

Hi all, another question. I have a Keystone Passport Ultra Light, 24 1/2' box, 27' total length. It has tandem axles with the load equalization (I think that's what it's called?) axles.The dry weight is about 4800 lbs.
I store the trailer in my driveway at home and my driveway is a bit steep. When the trailer is going up the driveway, there is a short period when the rear axle is supporting the whole trailer and the front axle/wheels are off the ground. The trailer has to roll approx 1 1/2 to 2 feet like this before the front axle is back on the ground. Is this going to do any damage? Is that too much stress to put on the rear axle while the trailer is rolling up the driveway?
Your thoughts are welcome, thanks.

[speedy72vega]

Thanks all, I will look into doing that soon.

[ZeeLet50]

^^^^^ Yes that is the one!

[BarneyS]

See this thread, which is stuck at the top of this forum, for info on the Dexter wet bolt and equalizer replacement steps. Many of us have done it and are very satisfied with the results.
Barney

[SoundGuy]

speedy72vega wrote:
BTW, what's a Dexter mod?

ZeeLet50 is probably referring to a Dexter Axle Wet Bolt Kit.



The equalizers on most dual axle trailers, probably including yours, use simple nylon bushings that wear out in no time ...





... and once that happens the bolt holes in the equalizers will begin to oval, increasing slop in the system.

If so you'd want to replace not just the bushings but also the equalizers and bolts, just as I did with our previous KZ Spree, but if you catch it soon enough it's possible to replace just the bushings with metal versions and install wet bolts with built in grease nipples. If there's any one mod one might want to consider doing with a brand new trailer this would be it. 😉

[speedy72vega]

BTW, what's a Dexter mod?

[speedy72vega]

ZeeLet50 wrote:
I think the OP has the same TT as I do. Mine is a '13 Keystone Passport 23RB and it has twin 4000lb axles which is overkill for a 4850lb dry weight trailer. It also came with 15' wheels. But I am not complaining. I put a Dexter mod on it and it tracks very nice. So sitting on one axle for that short period should not be a problem. I would be a little cautious of the winch he uses around the axle as it could potentially lead to bending. I understand it is just a backup safety in case chokes fail.

Mine is a '16 2450 rear living room, i'm pretty sure it has 15" wheels also but I haven't looked at the size, they're aluminum wheels, 5 lug.
As far as the winch, it's an 8,000 lb come-a-long. I bolted a 10,000 lb tie down loop from Home Depot into the concrete to secure the winch. I don't put alot of tension on it, it's just there in case the chocks fail for any reason.

[ZeeLet50]

I think the OP has the same TT as I do. Mine is a '13 Keystone Passport 23RB and it has twin 4000lb axles which is overkill for a 4850lb dry weight trailer. It also came with 15' wheels. But I am not complaining. I put a Dexter mod on it and it tracks very nice. So sitting on one axle for that short period should not be a problem. I would be a little cautious of the winch he uses around the axle as it could potentially lead to bending. I understand it is just a backup safety in case chocks fail.

[SoundGuy]

As far as parking your trailer on a sloped driveway, one doesn't need to go to extremes to prevent any trailer from inadvertently rolling away - simply use the weight of the trailer bearing down on a set of wheel pads with chocks affixed to the pads, just as I've already illustrated, to prevent the trailer from rolling forward. It's a simple concept and it works. 😛

speedy72vega wrote:
Under ordinary circumstances I would agree, but my driveway is so oddly sloped at different angles, I felt the added cable winch gave me a little more peace of mind. I can have the tongue of my trailer over 40" in the air with the jack fully extended on a large platform that I made and the trailer still doesn't sit level from front to back. Even with all 4 tires chocked, I still put the cable on it just for added protection, especially when it gets windy.

Our current trailer is just 22' 6" coupler to bumper and with it leveled front to back, the tongue jack extended about 18" and sitting on an additional 18" stack, the rear bumper is only about 8" off the driveway while the tongue is at least 3'.



Our previous trailer measured 26' 9" coupler to bumper so it's tongue was even higher with the trailer leveled yet in both cases I used this same technique to absolutely secure the trailer in place so it can't possibly shift ... it's own weight guarantees it. 🙂

[speedy72vega]

"As far as parking your trailer on a sloped driveway, one doesn't need to go to extremes to prevent any trailer from inadvertently rolling away - simply use the weight of the trailer bearing down on a set of wheel pads with chocks affixed to the pads, just as I've already illustrated, to prevent the trailer from rolling forward. It's a simple concept and it works. :p"

Under ordinary circumstances I would agree, but my driveway is so oddly sloped at different angles, I felt the added cable winch gave me a little more peace of mind. I can have the tongue of my trailer over 40" in the air with the jack fully extended on a large platform that I made and the trailer still doesn't sit level from front to back. Even with all 4 tires chocked, I still put the cable on it just for added protection, especially when it gets windy.

[SoundGuy]

Huntindog wrote:
If it was me, I would not rely on a bunch of internet "experts" that have nothing to lose if they steer you wrong.

Agree. Not one of those saying "No problem" have anything personally invested themselves if the OP does eventually discover that allowing one axle set to repeatedly elevate off the ground does cause an issue long term. :M The trailer manufacturer intended and designed the weight of this trailer to be supported on all four tires ... use them. 😉

FWIW, we had a similar debate several years ago on another forum about using a ramp on a trailer's low side for leveling and many of us, after our own extensive testing and considerable discussion, concluded it was a poor idea as there's no question that in doing so one axle is subjected to significantly more force than it's mate. One can agree or disagree all they want but the fact remains that the trailer was designed with dual axles for a reason, with each axle set supporting similar amounts of weight, not significantly different amounts. It's the same reason that when camping one would want to elevate both tires on the trailer's low side, regardless of whether one is using wood, Lynx, or even Andersen Levelers - BOTH low side tires elevated similarly.

As far as parking your trailer on a sloped driveway, one doesn't need to go to extremes to prevent any trailer from inadvertently rolling away - simply use the weight of the trailer bearing down on a set of wheel pads with chocks affixed to the pads, just as I've already illustrated, to prevent the trailer from rolling forward. It's a simple concept and it works. 😛

[speedy72vega]

JIMNLIN wrote:

wrvond wrote:
I find it odd that an accepted method of flat tire repair is to pull the TT up on blocks under one axle so that the flat tire is suspended in air. No one seems to have a problem with that, yet, suspending wheels for less than two feet at very low speeds produces preditions of dire results.
I don't see it as that much of a big deal, quite frankly.

Very poor scenario compared to what the OP suspension/trailer frame is going through.
The OP front axle/tires are completely off the ground which is nothing at all like a ramp under one tire to raise the tire next to it. This leaves the trailers frame un-supported where the chassis engineers required two axles for the frame. Not only unsupported but now it has the weight of one axle just hanging adding even more stress to the trailers frame. Keep in mind this isn't a one shot deal but maybe happen many times a year.

Guess we read different forums/threads as everyone is not on board with ramping one tire to raise another....myself included.

Hmmmmm.....another good point. I think the next time I put it in the driveway I will try it at an angle. Maybe that way the axles might articulate enough to where only 1 wheel might be off the ground at any given time, that way there are still 3 wheels supporting it.

[JIMNLIN]

wrvond wrote:
I find it odd that an accepted method of flat tire repair is to pull the TT up on blocks under one axle so that the flat tire is suspended in air. No one seems to have a problem with that, yet, suspending wheels for less than two feet at very low speeds produces preditions of dire results.
I don't see it as that much of a big deal, quite frankly.

Very poor scenario compared to what the OP suspension/trailer frame is going through.
The OP front axle/tires are completely off the ground which is nothing at all like a ramp under one tire to raise the tire next to it. This leaves the trailers frame un-supported where the chassis engineers required two axles for the frame. Not only unsupported but now it has the weight of one axle just hanging adding even more stress to the trailers frame. Keep in mind this isn't a one shot deal but maybe happen many times a year.

Guess we read different forums/threads as everyone is not on board with ramping one tire to raise another....myself included.

[speedy72vega]

Thanks for all the insight, I appreciate it. When I'm moving the trailer in and out of the driveway it is at a very slow speed, no bouncing. Nothing is rubbing or hitting, the rear end doesn't scrape either (I really thought it would the first time I put it in the driveway), and I haven't noticed any difference in the way it tows, so hopefully I haven't done any harm. I have moved it in and out of the driveway at least five times now, so far no apparent issues. I will keep a close watch on the tire wear to see if anything looks out of the ordinary.
Interesting thoughts on the tire change scenario, food for thought.

Add: BTW, when I store it in the driveway I chock all 4 tires, as well as a 10,000 lb steel tie down I bolted into the concrete. I then attach an 8000 lb come-a-long cable winch to the rear axle, so I think I have it pretty secure once it's parked. My biggest fear is to wake up one morning and it's demolished after rolling down into the street!

[Huntindog]

I am on the fence on this one... Usually I would say it'll be OK... But you have an ultralight.. A lot of times such a design skimps in a lot of structual areas. Frames and axles can be a a lot weaker than in traditional designs..

If it was me, I would not rely on a bunch of internet "experts" that have nothing to lose if they steer you wrong.

I would contact the manufacturer... And try to talk to someone knowledgable... Not the new hire that mainly just answers the phone.