Switching from 12 volt to 6 volt batteries

[GravelRider]

After our third time out dry camping with our new travel trailer, we started running into battery bank issues. Our first two times out, we had no issues at all with running down our battery bank overnight while dry camping. We added a television to the camper (which we fell asleep watching! Doh!) and used heat for the first time overnight and ended up in the morning with our voltage reading at 11.4 volts. To be fair, our 12 volt fridge was running at the time, so I'd imagine actual voltage was probably 11.6 or so, but still too low for my tastes, and for good battery longevity. Granted, better discipline would have avoided this, but it got me thinking about adding some more capacity. And yes, I know, better discipline is the right answer here... But I like overkill... lol

I have two 12 volt 81 Ah batteries (which I thought were 100 Ah when I bought it... as the dealer said the 'upgraded' batteries were around 100 Ah) for a total bank of 162 Ah. I had looked into adding two more 12 volt batteries in the 75-100 Ah range, but that ends up being a lot of extra weight at the front of the trailer, and finding space for them would be an issue. So, I'm now thinking of swapping out the two 12 volt batteries for two 6 volt batteries wired in series. This would give me 450 Ah, which would likely be far more than I would ever need, and I would probably never discharge near 50%. ****EDIT, nope! 225 Ah!

I'm looking at this battery and this box, which would only add about 50 extra pounds.

Anyhow, besides the battery boxes and series wiring, would I need to do anything else? Like add a different converter or anything?

FYI, my trailer is a 2021 Indian River 22MKSE with a small 50 watt solar panel factory installed (which I really only use to keep the batteries trickle charged when stored).

[GravelRider]

ajriding wrote:

GravelRider wrote:

ajriding wrote:
No, no, no... This Furrion given in links above is not a Danfoss-style compressor, it is not efficient. It draws 15 amps...

I have one of these ICECO Compressor Fridgehttps://www.wayfair.com/appliances/pdp/iceco-211-cuft-frost-free-chest-freezer-ieco1002.html .

The one you link is a 2 C.F. that is listed at 7.5 amps. The Furrion is 10 C.F. and is listed at 15 amps. I'd assume a larger fridge would use a larger compressor, and thus more amps. I'm not an e...r.

No, maybe that particular seller has wrong info. The Iceco is a danfoss or danfoss style and draws super low amps, 3-5. It is the same as the Engle, ARB or Dometic as far as power goes. 5 or less amps is very low draw and will not drain batts in a day.

I was camping 4 days and parked in the forest under tall trees in NC for 3 days and it rained every afternoon. The batts never went lower than 12.3 over night. In the shade they never got to full charge either, but the fridge ran the whole time (I mean was keeping things cold/frozen) and worked like a champ. I would leave all day and close the roof vents but leave windows cracked because it rains, and it was hot in camper during the day too. Windows are frameless so can be left open.

Anyway, people who do not have these type fridges are chiming in so much, too much. They are great, use low power and I do not know anyone who is not happy with them.
This Iceco is a bit of an off brand for Yanks, but ARB, Engle (spell?) and Dometic are the big 3. I also have an ARB single compartment unit that works great, but I needed a freezer and a fridge, so upgraded.
I chose Iceco for the price and that I can control both compartments separately. I can turn one on, one off, have both as fridges, both as freezers or one of each, and set temps independently...

Now that I installed the battery monitor, I checked the actual draw from the fridge, and it drew 10 amps on startup for just a few seconds, and then settled around 7.5 amps. I'm wondering if the numbers listed are just the maximum possible draw.

[GravelRider]

I installed the battery monitor today, so I'll be able to get a much better picture of how much battery I'm using and how much each item is drawing.

[ajriding]

GravelRider wrote:

ajriding wrote:
No, no, no... This Furrion given in links above is not a Danfoss-style compressor, it is not efficient. It draws 15 amps...

I have one of these ICECO Compressor Fridgehttps://www.wayfair.com/appliances/pdp/iceco-211-cuft-frost-free-chest-freezer-ieco1002.html .

The one you link is a 2 C.F. that is listed at 7.5 amps. The Furrion is 10 C.F. and is listed at 15 amps. I'd assume a larger fridge would use a larger compressor, and thus more amps. I'm not an e...r.

No, maybe that particular seller has wrong info. The Iceco is a danfoss or danfoss style and draws super low amps, 3-5. It is the same as the Engle, ARB or Dometic as far as power goes. 5 or less amps is very low draw and will not drain batts in a day.

I was camping 4 days and parked in the forest under tall trees in NC for 3 days and it rained every afternoon. The batts never went lower than 12.3 over night. In the shade they never got to full charge either, but the fridge ran the whole time (I mean was keeping things cold/frozen) and worked like a champ. I would leave all day and close the roof vents but leave windows cracked because it rains, and it was hot in camper during the day too. Windows are frameless so can be left open.

Anyway, people who do not have these type fridges are chiming in so much, too much. They are great, use low power and I do not know anyone who is not happy with them.
This Iceco is a bit of an off brand for Yanks, but ARB, Engle (spell?) and Dometic are the big 3. I also have an ARB single compartment unit that works great, but I needed a freezer and a fridge, so upgraded.
I chose Iceco for the price and that I can control both compartments separately. I can turn one on, one off, have both as fridges, both as freezers or one of each, and set temps independently...

[CavemanCharlie]

Vintage465 wrote:

crosscheck wrote:

Vintage465 wrote:

crosscheck wrote:

bpounds wrote:
Couple things to add,

That 12v fridge is bad news for boondocking. They are very inefficient. Normally only find those in popup style rigs. But, I guess you're stuck with it. Get more battery.

I like the Vmax line of 6vdc. And with those AGM, you do not need to put them in a battery box. They are safe in any orientation. That might allow you to get even more than 2 of them, but you do need pairs. Unless you look at the Vmax 12vdc AGM. I don't have the 12v, but I would trust the name.

The cheap club store batteries will need to be in a box, and you'll likely end up replacing them sooner. Depending on how you maintain them. Might or might not be worth the savings to you.

One of the main reasons I chose a Danfos compressor style 12V fridge /freezer was because the they are a favourite of the ultimate boondockers which are yachters. They can't use propane fridges because propane is heavier than air and could sink to the lower decks if there was a leak and could cause an explosion.
Our camping style is 98% dry/boondock camping. For 5 years, we camped with a 7.5cuft NovaKool fridge/freezer which when cycling used 4.4A. They are more efficient than absorption fridges using 1/3 less energy. They cool much quicker, for the same outer dimensions, have 1/3 more volume, keep more consistant temperatures in hot ambient temperatures and are not a fire hazard. We almost never needed our 2000W genny as we had 4 6V AGM batteries and lots of solar.

People who use the term"12V fridges are bad news for boondocking" have never had this kind of fridge. They are becoming much more popular for so many reasons as long as you figure in more electrical capacity(batteries, solar) if you don't want to run your genny.

I have a 6 cuft absorption fridge in my TT which came with the new unit. If it gives up the ghost down the line, a 9 cuft NovaKool will fit exactly in the same opening and as I already have plenty of solar and 4 6V GC-2 batteries and more room for extra solar, this is the route I will go.

Dave

That does sound like an efficient 12v fridge. My concern as a boon docker is I hate.........did I say hate?.... Generators. I'll do most anything not to use a generator. And I like camping year round. That include weather that gets down in the teens. I'd need enough battery to run my furnace to heat the the belly of the coach to keep the tanks warm enough. I can keep up with my furnace pretty easily with my solar, but I think if you tagged another fairly high draw unit on the 4-6v's it'd get critical. Bottom line is you really have to prioritize your usage choice. I want a furnace, a C-pap, no genny and winter. Prolly nixes the 12v fridge...for my boon docking needs.

Howdy, to another Creekside owner. Another neat plus for compressor fridges is that they can be operational without problems out of level for long periods of time.( Again, think of yachts).
No question, the NovaKool was the largest single draw of battery power bar none.So if you had to choose, get rid of the OEM heater fan and put in a Cat heater. I have no experience with these but some say they work well.
My absorption fridge works fine but I would replace it in a heart beat if it quit.

Dave

Problem with the CAT heater will not heat the belly in real cold weather. I personally am big fan of propane fridges. I don't see any reason to use anything different. I've also found, as I get older, that there are an alarming number of people that really don't care what my opinion is! Everyone will use what they need that fits their use needs.

Sorry to jump in on the middle of your conversation. Could a person use a CAT heater and a 12 volt fan to push heat into the underbelly ? I've often wonder d about this.

I too love my propane fridge that I have in my 1993 Travel Trailer and I have no problems with it cooling.

My brother has a 2018 5th wheel and the propane fridge that he has will not keep food cool when he is traveling down the road, or in days when the outside heat is high. I think the newer ones are not built as well and are giving the whole industry a bad reputation.

[bpounds]

I have agree with Vintage465. My propane ain't broke, and it don't need fixing. It is perfect for boondocking.

I get it though. Absorption fridges are kind of a pain at times, for some people, and the urge to go with a residential fridge is strong. All kinds of ways of justifying a residential unit in an RV have been posted. Now that solar and lots of battery are all the rage, some have lost interest in efficient off-grid practices. Just throw juice at whatever inconvenience comes along. Okay as long as the weather stays clear and sunny.

Whether it runs through an inverter, or directly on 12v battery, a residential fridge is what it is.

[Vintage465]

crosscheck wrote:

Vintage465 wrote:

crosscheck wrote:

bpounds wrote:
Couple things to add,

That 12v fridge is bad news for boondocking. They are very inefficient. Normally only find those in popup style rigs. But, I guess you're stuck with it. Get more battery.

I like the Vmax line of 6vdc. And with those AGM, you do not need to put them in a battery box. They are safe in any orientation. That might allow you to get even more than 2 of them, but you do need pairs. Unless you look at the Vmax 12vdc AGM. I don't have the 12v, but I would trust the name.

The cheap club store batteries will need to be in a box, and you'll likely end up replacing them sooner. Depending on how you maintain them. Might or might not be worth the savings to you.

One of the main reasons I chose a Danfos compressor style 12V fridge /freezer was because the they are a favourite of the ultimate boondockers which are yachters. They can't use propane fridges because propane is heavier than air and could sink to the lower decks if there was a leak and could cause an explosion.
Our camping style is 98% dry/boondock camping. For 5 years, we camped with a 7.5cuft NovaKool fridge/freezer which when cycling used 4.4A. They are more efficient than absorption fridges using 1/3 less energy. They cool much quicker, for the same outer dimensions, have 1/3 more volume, keep more consistant temperatures in hot ambient temperatures and are not a fire hazard. We almost never needed our 2000W genny as we had 4 6V AGM batteries and lots of solar.

People who use the term"12V fridges are bad news for boondocking" have never had this kind of fridge. They are becoming much more popular for so many reasons as long as you figure in more electrical capacity(batteries, solar) if you don't want to run your genny.

I have a 6 cuft absorption fridge in my TT which came with the new unit. If it gives up the ghost down the line, a 9 cuft NovaKool will fit exactly in the same opening and as I already have plenty of solar and 4 6V GC-2 batteries and more room for extra solar, this is the route I will go.

Dave

That does sound like an efficient 12v fridge. My concern as a boon docker is I hate.........did I say hate?.... Generators. I'll do most anything not to use a generator. And I like camping year round. That include weather that gets down in the teens. I'd need enough battery to run my furnace to heat the the belly of the coach to keep the tanks warm enough. I can keep up with my furnace pretty easily with my solar, but I think if you tagged another fairly high draw unit on the 4-6v's it'd get critical. Bottom line is you really have to prioritize your usage choice. I want a furnace, a C-pap, no genny and winter. Prolly nixes the 12v fridge...for my boon docking needs.

Howdy, to another Creekside owner. Another neat plus for compressor fridges is that they can be operational without problems out of level for long periods of time.( Again, think of yachts).
No question, the NovaKool was the largest single draw of battery power bar none.So if you had to choose, get rid of the OEM heater fan and put in a Cat heater. I have no experience with these but some say they work well.
My absorption fridge works fine but I would replace it in a heart beat if it quit.

Dave

Problem with the CAT heater will not heat the belly in real cold weather. I personally am big fan of propane fridges. I don't see any reason to use anything different. I've also found, as I get older, that there are an alarming number of people that really don't care what my opinion is! Everyone will use what they need that fits their use needs.

[time2roll]

+1 for just a voltmeter. That monitor money can be spent on more battery capacity or solar charging to make life off-grid easier.

[bpounds]

GravelRider wrote:
...Anyone have experience with the Renogy/AiLi?

https://www.amazon.com/AiLi-Programmable-10V-120V-Compatible-Batteries/dp/B081SXH9TK/ref=psdc_14244451_t3_B07RP5B5P7

Never needed more than a volt meter, and now the solar CC monitor adds info. Some guys here are in love with their gadgets, but you don't really need that complexity to call yourself a boondocker. The gadgets lie to you too as they wander out of calibration.

If you've already got something, just stick with it.

[time2roll]

These fridges make charging voltage and capacity critical during off-grid camping. These features are really designed to be used when you have utility power.

Think four batteries, new converter and 500+ watts solar.

[GravelRider]

crosscheck wrote:

GravelRider wrote:

ajriding wrote:
No, no, no... This Furrion given in links above is not a Danfoss-style compressor, it is not efficient. It draws 15 amps, the real camping-style compressor fridges draw 3-5 amps max and do not need a spike of electricity to get the compressor started either. There would be no point to put that in an RV unless you are always plugged in.

I have one of these ICECO Compressor Fridgehttps://www.wayfair.com/appliances/pdp/iceco-211-cuft-frost-free-chest-freezer-ieco1002.html Though you will have to search another site to find specs...
I have 2 GC batts and could easily go 3 days without use of solar charging. With solar this will run indefinately

5 amps draw is the max any compressor DC powered fridge should pull, typically 3-4 is normal, and they run a few minutes only before shutting off, having reached the cold temp. As I said... 8-10 mins per hour total of run time seems normal. You can insulate the sides and top to make it more efficient, but I have not needed to do this yeat.
Also see ARB and Dometic for other more popular models.

The one you link is a 2 C.F. that is listed at 7.5 amps. The Furrion is 10 C.F. and is listed at 15 amps. I'd assume a larger fridge would use a larger compressor, and thus more amps. I'm not an expert by any means, but the Furrion appears to be far more efficient than yours, if you take into account energy use per volume.

I never measured, but I'd imagine mine runs about fifteen minutes every hour, but I keep it about 3/4 the way toward the cold side. I'd imagine if I put it in the middle, it'd run about ten minutes an hour.

Just looked up a 9 cuft NovaKool fridge/freezer on their website. Althought slightly smaller than your unit, it draws 5.2 amps which is in line with our 7.5 unit which draws 4.4 as per tester. That's almost 3 times more than the NovaKool unit.

Dave

Yikes! I guess mine is a bit power hungry...

[crosscheck]

GravelRider wrote:

ajriding wrote:
No, no, no... This Furrion given in links above is not a Danfoss-style compressor, it is not efficient. It draws 15 amps, the real camping-style compressor fridges draw 3-5 amps max and do not need a spike of electricity to get the compressor started either. There would be no point to put that in an RV unless you are always plugged in.

I have one of these ICECO Compressor Fridgehttps://www.wayfair.com/appliances/pdp/iceco-211-cuft-frost-free-chest-freezer-ieco1002.html Though you will have to search another site to find specs...
I have 2 GC batts and could easily go 3 days without use of solar charging. With solar this will run indefinately

5 amps draw is the max any compressor DC powered fridge should pull, typically 3-4 is normal, and they run a few minutes only before shutting off, having reached the cold temp. As I said... 8-10 mins per hour total of run time seems normal. You can insulate the sides and top to make it more efficient, but I have not needed to do this yeat.
Also see ARB and Dometic for other more popular models.

The one you link is a 2 C.F. that is listed at 7.5 amps. The Furrion is 10 C.F. and is listed at 15 amps. I'd assume a larger fridge would use a larger compressor, and thus more amps. I'm not an expert by any means, but the Furrion appears to be far more efficient than yours, if you take into account energy use per volume.

I never measured, but I'd imagine mine runs about fifteen minutes every hour, but I keep it about 3/4 the way toward the cold side. I'd imagine if I put it in the middle, it'd run about ten minutes an hour.

Just looked up a 9 cuft NovaKool fridge/freezer on their website. Althought slightly smaller than your unit, it draws 5.2 amps which is in line with our 7.5 unit which draws 4.4 as per tester. That's almost 3 times more than the NovaKool unit.

Dave

[crosscheck]

pianotuna wrote:

crosscheck wrote:

My absorption fridge works fine but I would replace it in a heart beat if it quit.

Dave

Hi Dave,

There is a firm that will retrofit a compressor to your existing Fridge. That is what I will do when the end of days takes my absorption fridge down.

Don,
Thanks for that info.As I mentioned earlier, a 9 cuft NovaKool would fit into the same spot as the 6cuft Norcold.Right now we would like the extra space.

Dave

[GravelRider]

ajriding wrote:
No, no, no... This Furrion given in links above is not a Danfoss-style compressor, it is not efficient. It draws 15 amps, the real camping-style compressor fridges draw 3-5 amps max and do not need a spike of electricity to get the compressor started either. There would be no point to put that in an RV unless you are always plugged in.

I have one of these ICECO Compressor Fridgehttps://www.wayfair.com/appliances/pdp/iceco-211-cuft-frost-free-chest-freezer-ieco1002.html Though you will have to search another site to find specs...
I have 2 GC batts and could easily go 3 days without use of solar charging. With solar this will run indefinately

5 amps draw is the max any compressor DC powered fridge should pull, typically 3-4 is normal, and they run a few minutes only before shutting off, having reached the cold temp. As I said... 8-10 mins per hour total of run time seems normal. You can insulate the sides and top to make it more efficient, but I have not needed to do this yeat.
Also see ARB and Dometic for other more popular models.

The one you link is a 2 C.F. that is listed at 7.5 amps. The Furrion is 10 C.F. and is listed at 15 amps. I'd assume a larger fridge would use a larger compressor, and thus more amps. I'm not an expert by any means, but the Furrion appears to be far more efficient than yours, if you take into account energy use per volume.

I never measured, but I'd imagine mine runs about fifteen minutes every hour, but I keep it about 3/4 the way toward the cold side. I'd imagine if I put it in the middle, it'd run about ten minutes an hour.

[GravelRider]

I picked up two GC2 batteries from Sam's Club yesterday. I'll install them over the weekend if the battery boxes come in in time.

I'm definitely going to go with a better battery monitor than the one that came with the trailer. I like the Victron, in that it appears to be very well made and has good reviews... But I like the Renogy display far and away better (IOW, it displays all the useful stats at once without having to cycle through buttons), but the reviews are so-so. The AiLi looks to be the exact same as the Renogy, but at a 20% discount. I believe this will be the way direction I'll go...

Anyone have experience with the Renogy/AiLi?

https://www.amazon.com/AiLi-Programmable-10V-120V-Compatible-Batteries/dp/B081SXH9TK/ref=psdc_14244451_t3_B07RP5B5P7

[ajriding]

No, no, no... This Furrion given in links above is not a Danfoss-style compressor, it is not efficient. It draws 15 amps, the real camping-style compressor fridges draw 3-5 amps max and do not need a spike of electricity to get the compressor started either. There would be no point to put that in an RV unless you are always plugged in.

I have one of these ICECO Compressor Fridgehttps://www.wayfair.com/appliances/pdp/iceco-211-cuft-frost-free-chest-freezer-ieco1002.html Though you will have to search another site to find specs...
I have 2 GC batts and could easily go 3 days without use of solar charging. With solar this will run indefinately

5 amps draw is the max any compressor DC powered fridge should pull, typically 3-4 is normal, and they run a few minutes only before shutting off, having reached the cold temp. As I said... 8-10 mins per hour total of run time seems normal. You can insulate the sides and top to make it more efficient, but I have not needed to do this yeat.
Also see ARB and Dometic for other more popular models.