This is a reason why Pop Ups aren't selling......

[Mike_Up]

as well as they use to. It's because of how expensive they are now especially compared to travel trailers.



2015 Jay Series 1209SC

The options for this floorplan are listed below.

Customer Value Package (Mandatory) $817.00

Bath/shower with hard walls $2,129.00

(2) Bed mat heaters $262.00

Stereo w/ outside speakers $187.00

Powered roof vent $210.00

16,000-BTU furnace w/ auto ignition $397.00

$17,608 MSRP

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2015 Jay Flight SLX 184BH

The options for this floorplan are listed below.

Customer Value Package (Mandatory) $1,199.00

Roof-mounted 13,500-BTU A/C $412.00

$14,647 MSRP
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264BHW | 2015 JAY FLIGHT SLX

The options for this floorplan are listed below.

Customer Value Package (Mandatory) $1,199.00

Spare tire $180.00

$18,463 MSRP
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[PAThwacker]

Modern Day 8 ft Popup
GVWR 2336 lbs.
Hitch Weight 176 lbs.
UVW 1937 lbs.
CCC 399 lbs.

GVWR (Gross Vehicle Weight Rating) – is the maximum permissible weight of the unit when fully loaded. It includes all weights, inclusive of all fluids, cargo, optional equipment and accessories. For safety and product performance do NOT exceed the GVWR.

Typical camping weekend would eat up the 399 lbs CCC.

Vans and lessor 3500lb rated CUV would be lugging 2336 lbs and 300 lbs tongue weight.

[temccarthy1]

My first camper was a 1982 Coleman 12 ft Sun Valley PUP. Paid only $2995 for it in 1983 from dealer where it was used as a demo for 1 year. He fixed up anything that was not perfect and we used it for 30 years! And had NO problems with it mechanically except a couple blown tires along the way. It weighed only 1000 lbs and I pulled it with a 79 Toyota Celica fastback.. amazing! The PUP roof folded was higher than the Celica! Just strapped on a couple big mirrors! Our 2 boys grew up camping all over the country in that rig! Opened up to 19 ft long! Had an electric heater, ac/dc fridge, dinette, 2 burner stovetop, running water and sink,cabinets and 2 full size pull out beds. no toilet or shower... that's what campgrounds are for! We had a blast in that thing-- 5 years ago, the cable finally snapped one day and now she sits under my deck waiting for me to give it away on Craigs list. Anyone out there want it? Just come get it! Now I have a 32 ft 2014 Bullet 285RLS TT which is pure luxury... but I still miss camping in the PUP.. It was still "camping" We used to sit around the campfire with our 2 young sons and kid about the people in the "big rigs" near us who just stayed inside with their televisions, stereos and power jacks.... Now I'm one of them! Coleman made the best PUPS out there!.. And they were not expensive or heavy back in the day... I miss it!

[manualman]

Glad I don't let you guys tell my old Odyssey that then. She's got almost 215k miles on the full original powertrain and suspension in spite of having towed our 12' Sun Valley pup for about 25k of those miles, including to Glacier NP, RMNP, Telluride, Smokies, Black Hills and more.

FWD unibody vehicles are plenty able to tow medium popups reliably and safely, though I surely admit that the manufacturers don't make it plugNplay easy like they do with trucks and frame SUVs. We usually have to wire our own brake controllers and charge lines and often improve ATF cooling. Worth it though.

You do also have to do your homework before buying. Not sure if it's still true, but Forest River made stupid heavy tongue weight popups when we were shopping and some makes had frames not able to take wdh.

No, it's not changes in tow vehicles killing popup sales. It's changes in demographics. Pups once sold big to families in 1,800SF homes. People today in that category think they need a bigger house more than they need a popup, then they can't afford anything but the house, leaving RV buying to be a pastime of the rich only. Precious few wealthy folks want to crank up their tent trailer and squat to pee in a portipotti. Their loss.

[Mike_Up]

PAThwacker wrote:
The pups died out as recession continues on. As for comments about lesser tow vehicles you still need at least 5000lb rated tow vehicles. That eliminated many Cuv leaving you with mid to full size vehicles,

If you do camp you know that it requires many peripheral equipment, toys, boats , grills and that's payload robbing weight.
Right back to half ton pickups to 3/4.

Exactly, my two 12' box, none slide, pop ups had heavy tongue weights that maxed or exceeded most crossover's low tongue weight rating. Plus with all the gear loaded into the vehicle, along with people, would exceed most crossover's payload and RGAWR.

So you really needed a truck based midsize SUV at a minimum, to tow these medium sized Pop Ups.

[PAThwacker]

The pups died out as recession continues on. As for comments about lesser tow vehicles you still need at least 5000lb rated tow vehicles. That eliminated many Cuv leaving you with mid to full size vehicles,

If you do camp you know that it requires many peripheral equipment, toys, boats , grills and that's payload robbing weight.
Right back to half ton pickups to 3/4.

[manualman]

retiredtraveler wrote:
You can get a decent little hard sided trailer for not much more weight for the same price or sometimes less.

Yes. But keep in mind, towing is not simply about weight. It's also drag. There is a huge difference between towing a pup that is lower than the roof of your TV and a trailer that is higher.

Yup. I have a family member who recently bought a T@G teardrop trailer to pull behind their Subie Forester (non-turbo). They were appalled to find they only get 15-16mpg towing this 1,000# dry trailer with their 4 banger wagon/ute. In contrast, I get 18mpg pulling my pup that weighs twice as much dry with our big honkin' "minivan" and its 250hp V6 engine. And I can STAND in my camper. That's how much difference wind resistance makes and it's why anybody with a full height TT is real happy to break double digits for towing mpg and need a pickup to do it.

MikeUp has a way of sounding smug that some posters respond badly to (guilty at times myself), but I think he's really just trying to explain actual sales trends. Local observations at campgrounds don't negate those sales realities.

But sales trends don't necessarily demonstrate reason or logic in the purchase decisions being made. There are LOTS of societal trends these days that are irrational and incomprehensible to me. Folks choosing a TT over a pup is not in the top ten list, either.... People are weird. Who can fathom 'em?

[retiredtravele1]

You can get a decent little hard sided trailer for not much more weight for the same price or sometimes less.

Yes. But keep in mind, towing is not simply about weight. It's also drag. There is a huge difference between towing a pup that is lower than the roof of your TV and a trailer that is higher.

[wbwood]

Tlauden wrote:
Yea, but you can still use a smaller tow vehicle, isn't that one advantage?

Not always. The weight of pop ups have gone up also. The one we had back in 2000 weighed between 1600-1700 lbs. Didn't have a bathroom but was a decent size and had lots of room. GVWR now can go as twice the amount. You can get a decent little hard sided trailer for not much more weight for the same price or sometimes less.

[rickm]

A few years back .... we had a 24' Eagle Travel Trailer. We were sitting under the awning, on a drizzling Labor day Saturday, we were discussing about how little we use the inside of the trailer ....just to sleep literally. Why pull something that u rarely use, so went home, found a StarCraft Ar-One Hybrid for sale at a local dealer and bought it, brought it home and within one week, had my Eagle sold. Problem with the AR-One, as great a trailer as it is, the pull - out bunk end was too short, again, that's all we used it for was to sleep. Well, when we discovered jayco had jumped onto the A-Frame bandwagon, I began to search the net for one, and yes, very hard to find ..... had to go 4 hours to get one. Maybe dealers don't stock because of price, not sure. It's small, easy to tow, quite comfortable inside, and this winter it will be nice n cozy in the garage. We too are bikers and hikers, not sure I'd call ourselves hard-core though. We virtually only use it for sleeping .... we have even stopped bringing a TV with us. I like the Coleman Stove thing .... funny, we were selling off lots of stuff from my parent's house this summer because they moved into a retirement home. The one item I staked claim on was the Coleman Lantern ....that uses the Coleman fuel, not the propane tank type. Took it last weekend with us.... the sound of it burning brought back some great memories of my dad hanging it in a tree, so it would light up the entire site....and the sound it made. That's what camping is all about .... memories, not the size of your unit! (lol)

[retiredtravele1]

"....Not everyone needs a big trailer, or wants a big trailer. If i choose to pay big bucks for a pop-up, thats my choice...... like i said in one of your other pop-up threads, i've owned 'em all, and i work for Chevrolet, so i can drive the biggest baddest pick-ups..... i choose not to......".

I'm seconding that. I realize that pups are high priced compared to trailers. I can afford, within reason, to purchase any kind of car/truck/camper I want. But I simply don't want to pull a trailer and I like the pups for the room. As all of us that have pups know, once you open the bed ends, you have a large space! We take a lot of gear when we camp and use the bed-ends for clothes storage. Not enough storage, for us, in a small trailer. We're also 'hard core' hikers and bikers. So, we're gone all day doing something rather than 'living' in the trailer for most of the day. I still cook with the old-fashioned, white gas/hand pump, coleman two-stove burner, plus charcoal grill. Don't need, or want, a big kitchen or microwave. I like camping, not having something like my house.
To each his own...........

[Mike_Up]

sbstryker wrote:
I kind of see your point. We finally made the transition to a PUP a month ago and we are (hopefully) using it for the first time this upcoming Thanksgiving weekend (if our Jeep gets out of the shop in time).

We've been camping since we were toddlers. We're in our early 30s now. We had it with tents. We looked at new PUPs and we found the prices were crazy in comparison to travel trailers. But it's all about demand. It seems like PUPs are more popular than travel trailers because they're lighter therefore you don't need as big as a vehicle to pull the larger trailers.

If we had a big truck (it's not practical living in Toronto) we'd still probably get a PUP over a travel trailer. Well, either a PUP or an A liner. I like how easy they are to store and the airiness that they offer and they're easier to use across the provincial parks. We're very simple campers as well and don't bring a lot of stuff with us so to us, the PUPs are better suited to our lifestyle.

That said, we found the prices for new PUPs to be crazy, so we bought an old one that we're renovating to be exactly what we want. We got a 1983 Lionel for $1,500 and we've put $1,000 into it to make it modern and awesome.

Our 2 local dealers have stopped selling new pop ups. They mainly sell used pop ups that they have took in trade. One dealer had 2 new pop ups but they were the lowest models with 8' boxes, no a/c, and no options. They were also 2014 models.

They have started selling a lot more travel trailer floorplans that are in the same weight range and price points that their previous mid level pop ups use to sell at.

Post some pics of the camper when you get done. The old ones were really cool in their creativity to be functional yet simple. This is my favorite.This is my favorite.

[sbstryker]

I kind of see your point. We finally made the transition to a PUP a month ago and we are (hopefully) using it for the first time this upcoming Thanksgiving weekend (if our Jeep gets out of the shop in time).

We've been camping since we were toddlers. We're in our early 30s now. We had it with tents. We looked at new PUPs and we found the prices were crazy in comparison to travel trailers. But it's all about demand. It seems like PUPs are more popular than travel trailers because they're lighter therefore you don't need as big as a vehicle to pull the larger trailers.

If we had a big truck (it's not practical living in Toronto) we'd still probably get a PUP over a travel trailer. Well, either a PUP or an A liner. I like how easy they are to store and the airiness that they offer and they're easier to use across the provincial parks. We're very simple campers as well and don't bring a lot of stuff with us so to us, the PUPs are better suited to our lifestyle.

That said, we found the prices for new PUPs to be crazy, so we bought an old one that we're renovating to be exactly what we want. We got a 1983 Lionel for $1,500 and we've put $1,000 into it to make it modern and awesome.

[rickm]

We enjoyed last weekend of camping at our local Provincial Park..... the wonderful weather here in Sw Ontario was just to good to pass up. What we did notice was the amount of pop-ups that were there..... yes, they did out number the travel trailers by quite a bit. Why would that be Mike? Maybe it was just my imagination also, but it just seemed like a more friendly, more camping is fun type of crowd. You see Mike, i understand your original thread, but it got off base. No, not everyone has a big truck, or needs a big truck. Not everyone needs a big trailer, or wants a big trailer. If i choose to pay big bucks for a pop-up, thats my choice...... like i said in one of your other pop-up threads, i've owned 'em all, and i work for Chevrolet, so i can drive the biggest baddest pick-ups..... i choose not to, and the majority of the campers last weekend choose not to either. So, if u feel pop-ups are too much money, thats cool, but to the guy that owns one, we really don't care what u think..... we love 'em fot all the right reasons! BTW, my new Jayco Hardside was the most popular trailer in the park this weekend, we had more people stop and comment on it!

[Keel]

I'm not 100% sure but I'd say there is many reasons they are not selling
1)economy is still not that great
2)many bought campers with cash out of home,not no more
3) there are tons of used ones to pick from

And you can't compare the pricing of a pop up to a tt
that's like comparing the pricing of the small trucks and full size

comparing a new tt price to a new pop up isn't the reason.
compare the new pop up to the used market is..

[wbwood]

Tlauden wrote:
Yea, but you can still use a smaller tow vehicle,

Not necessarily....They are getting heavier and heavier