Towing capacity vs max cargo weight rating

[ognend]

Hello all!

Can someone clarify something for me? If a truck's max gooseneck trailer loaded weight is 15,100 lbs (as per manufacturer towing guide - it is a Ford) - how can the max cargo weight rating be 1792 lbs?

If I understand correctly, the max cargo weight rating is all the weight that can be put into/onto the truck (passengers, their things) PLUS the, for example, weight of the gooseneck pin of the loaded, 15,100 lbs trailer.

Ford's towing guide says: "Cargo Weight Rating shown in chart is maximum allowable, assuming weight of a base vehicle with required camper option content and a 150-lb. passenger at each available seating position".

Does this mean the allowed payload is AFTER 5 passengers? if I removed 3 passengers, does that add 450 lbs to payload capacity (max allowed cargo weight as per Ford)?

In addition, what gooseneck trailer weighs 15,100 lbs (max loaded trailer weight spec as per Ford) but only 1792 on the hitch (as per max allowed cargo weight)? This would imply that only 12% of the loaded trailer weight is on the hitch. Does this sound right?
I know this is not the case for my loaded horse trailer with living quarters (but then horse trailers with living quarters tend to be front heavy).

Am I understanding this right?

Thanks!

[Grit_dog]

RoyJ wrote:
There's one tire size (other than 19.5s) that can get us close to the DRW axle capacity:

https://www.tirerack.com/tires/tires.jsp?tireMake=Continental&tireModel=VanContact+A%2FS&partnum=865...

4300 lbs / tire, or 8600 lbs GAWR. Factor in the SRW bed is a bit lighter, and we have one less set of tires / wheels, that probably puts us within 500 lbs of a dually.

And it’s only offered in a 16” size, while although I’ve never seen these before, won’t fit on basically any HD truck built in the last 15 or so years.
And you’d have to find a 16” wheel, theoretically, that is rated that high.

[Cummins12V98]

RoyJ wrote:
There's one tire size (other than 19.5s) that can get us close to the DRW axle capacity:

https://www.tirerack.com/tires/tires.jsp?tireMake=Continental&tireModel=VanContact+A%2FS&partnum=865...

4300 lbs / tire, or 8600 lbs GAWR. Factor in the SRW bed is a bit lighter, and we have one less set of tires / wheels, that probably puts us within 500 lbs of a dually.

My RAWR is 9,750# but my stock 4 rear tires have a lot more capacity if I want to carry more weight. 65# in my tires is all I need out of 80 to carry the RAWR.

Wider stance gets much more stability.

[RoyJ]

There's one tire size (other than 19.5s) that can get us close to the DRW axle capacity:

https://www.tirerack.com/tires/tires.jsp?tireMake=Continental&tireModel=VanContact+A%2FS&partnum=865...

4300 lbs / tire, or 8600 lbs GAWR. Factor in the SRW bed is a bit lighter, and we have one less set of tires / wheels, that probably puts us within 500 lbs of a dually.

[ognend]

Cummins12V98 wrote:

MikeRP wrote:
So moving on to the next thought. Let’s say I put 4080 lb tires on the Ram. Which is 880 lbs more payload in the rear, Theoretically. So 880 plus 4156 equals 5036.

Not far off a 3500 dually payload rating. Lol.

You can call those 295/70R18 tires super singles.

NOT even close. My DRW has 9,750# RAWR, I have a 6k pin that puts me at the RAWR.

These numbers make me dizzy 🙂

[ognend]

MFL wrote:


Yes, correct, and this post and a few others you have made, tells me that you are much more knowledgeable, concerning the subject of your thread, than you were saying. Still makes a good discussion, and may help others understand why some TVs are more robust, than stickers are telling.

Jerry

I wish I was more knowledgeable. For example, I did not know that passenger weight was not included in the payload numbers - all this time I was thinking that the number assumes 6 people x 150 lbs = 900 lbs and that since there is only two of us, I magically gain 600 lbs of payload ;). I do understand (now) that RAWR/curb weight is what really matters. I did learn about the wheels accidentally when on a previous truck I went shopping for wheels and noticed a weight rating on them (before I bought - thank God).

Thanks!

[Cummins12V98]

MikeRP wrote:
So moving on to the next thought. Let’s say I put 4080 lb tires on the Ram. Which is 880 lbs more payload in the rear, Theoretically. So 880 plus 4156 equals 5036.

Not far off a 3500 dually payload rating. Lol.

You can call those 295/70R18 tires super singles.

NOT even close. My DRW has 9,750# RAWR, I have a 6k pin that puts me at the RAWR.

[MFL]

ognend wrote:

MikeRP wrote:
So moving on to the next thought. Let’s say I put 4080 lb tires on the Ram. Which is 880 lbs more payload in the rear, Theoretically. So 880 plus 4156 equals 5036.

Not far off a 3500 dually payload rating. Lol.

You can call those 295/70R18 tires super singles.

This is assuming your wheels are rated for the same pressures/weights, correct?

Yes, correct, and this post and a few others you have made, tells me that you are much more knowledgeable, concerning the subject of your thread, than you were saying. Still makes a good discussion, and may help others understand why some TVs are more robust, than stickers are telling.

Jerry

[ognend]

MikeRP wrote:
So moving on to the next thought. Let’s say I put 4080 lb tires on the Ram. Which is 880 lbs more payload in the rear, Theoretically. So 880 plus 4156 equals 5036.

Not far off a 3500 dually payload rating. Lol.

You can call those 295/70R18 tires super singles.

This is assuming your wheels are rated for the same pressures/weights, correct?

[MikeRP]

So moving on to the next thought. Let’s say I put 4080 lb tires on the Ram. Which is 880 lbs more payload in the rear, Theoretically. So 880 plus 4156 equals 5036.

Not far off a 3500 dually payload rating. Lol.

You can call those 295/70R18 tires super singles.

[MikeRP]

MikeRP wrote:
Interestingly his tires are Continental with a 3415 lb rating per tire which is 225 lbs per tire less. Am that would get you to 450 lbs of the difference between 4156 and 3415. So that would get you to 3865. Another 140 lbs in the diesel tank differences. That would get you to 4005. Maybe there is little difference afterall!!!

Well frick you live and learn!

And to me this just proves mods either way can affect they payload up and to the axle/ tire ratings.

I told my friend to get the 3640 lbs tires when the Continentals are worn out.
You have to think that Ford may lose some sales over this difference. When in truth the trucks are essentially equal.

Peace

[MikeRP]

Interestingly his tires are Continental with a 3415 lb rating per tire which is 225 lbs per tire less. Am that would get you to 450 lbs of the difference between 4156 and 3415. So that would get you to 3865. Another 140 lbs in the diesel tank differences. That would get you to 4005. Maybe there is little difference afterall!!!

Well frick you live and learn!

[MikeRP]

ognend wrote:

MikeRP wrote:
The first F 350 platinum edition I pull up on Autotrader has this GVWR problem.

So go to Herb Chambers Ford of Westborough.

Look for a black F350 platinum edition. 10,000 lb GVWR with 6000 front axle rating and. 7000 lb rear axle rating.

The last pic on auto trader is this sticker. They don’t have the payload sticker up.

Fascinating. The window sticker on that truck even has a line that says "PAYLOAD DOWNGRADE PACKAGE -- no charge". I can also see that a 2021 F-250 equivalent to my 2016 F-250 has only 240 lbs more on the RAWR. Good to know. The F-250 does not have the note about the payload being downgraded, however.

Yeah this just makes the point. I my opinion, the manufacturer is going to take the position that we must follow there guidelines. They have no clue what folks will do to a truck after it’s purchased. To me the stickers are good for when purchased, and any changes after that can certainly modify the payload in a negative or positive manner.

So they assume we are all idiots. And many would say we are haha, including my wifey.

But we know this f350 is severely under its capability. But when you do buy a new truck, you can make sure at that time you get the payload capability you need. I just purchased a long bed 2020 3500 Ram Longhorn w 4156lbs payload. Which is 400 lbs better than my old truck and it has the adaptive cruise. I have a friend w a new 2019 Ford, Longbed, F350 Looks almost like mine and it has 3412 lbs payload.

Nuts!!!!! We have nearly the same truck, same nearly the same axle ratings and 18 inch tires. I still have to check his tires but you know they are not 400 lbs each lighter.

But his tow capability is nearly the same just the payload.

Go figure.

[Grit_dog]

So OP, 12 pages later you tossed a set of super springs on it 4 years ago when new and have been happily loading it heavy with no issue, but didn’t really divulge that until the “discussion” died down?
Or am I missing something?

[RoyJ]

ognend wrote:
Hello, OP here. I guess I was concerned with the legalities of things first and foremost. We did use our truck to pull a 12,500 lbs horse trailer around the West for months, camping with our two horses full-time (it weighed about 2800 lbs on the hitch). The truck _appeared_ (!) perfectly capable to tow this trailer and stop it - I am not the kind to fly about with a trailer with livestock attached in the back anyway, my self-imposed limit is 65mph when I tow. Now, with that said, we bought the truck brand new in 2016 (F-250 4x4 diesel, crew cab, short bed) and it squatted something awful when we put the trailer on. I had to go the next day and get a set of "super springs" installed on the back, to level the truck under load. We traded in a 2006 GMC 2500 diesel 4x4 crew cab to get the new Ford and interestingly enough, the 10 years older GMC did not squat much with the same trailer (it too appeared perfectly capable to tow the trailer) - this tells me that personal anecdotes mean little in these discussions as sometimes all they are is "ignorance is bliss" kind of approach 🙂

Thanks! 🙂

That's why legality and safety can be 2 separate things!

Every State and Province have their own weight laws. I live in a rare place (BC) that does enforce GVW. However, unless you're visibly overloaded, you'd never get pulled into a commercial scale.

So ironically, an older truck with stiffer springs is less likely to get questioned than a newer sagging one.

But safety it's a lot more than just springs. My old 2500's chassis is worn out, and components are not that stiff by modern standards. With 5000 lbs in the bed, the steering is so poor it truly feels like a boat. A modern F250 / 2500, may technically have less payload, but will handle MUCH better with a set of helper springs.

[ognend]

MikeRP wrote:
The first F 350 platinum edition I pull up on Autotrader has this GVWR problem.

So go to Herb Chambers Ford of Westborough.

Look for a black F350 platinum edition. 10,000 lb GVWR with 6000 front axle rating and. 7000 lb rear axle rating.

The last pic on auto trader is this sticker. They don’t have the payload sticker up.

Fascinating. The window sticker on that truck even has a line that says "PAYLOAD DOWNGRADE PACKAGE -- no charge". I can also see that a 2021 F-250 equivalent to my 2016 F-250 has only 240 lbs more on the RAWR. Good to know. The F-250 does not have the note about the payload being downgraded, however.