trailor qaulity

[ziffell]

In the grand scheme of things, where does the Keystone Springdale fit in the "quality level". Good, bad, or otherwise, Considering one. Thanks Ziffell

[rbtglove]

I agree with Bluestreak, quality can't be inspected in, many things can't be inspected after the work is done, too expensive to have two pepole do every job, and 100% inspection/testing won't find every problem. Workers must must be proberly trained, have the right procedures, tools and proper additude. These things have to come from the management and starts with good design.

[Bluestreak]

Sorry Seattle Lion, it's not a Quality Assurance problem to fix. Finding the problems after the event has taken place is not the way to fix the problem. Your bad crimp issue is a classic case of a simple tool failure that caused a huge problem for the end user. Bad crimps in a water system or bad connector crimps in an electrical system are nearly impossible to "inspect" after the fact. You found that out and hopefuly Kodiak did so too and learned something. Designing highly capable crimp processes, process control, destructive testing and constant monitoring are the way to control this kind of issue. NASA, The car guys and the medical device industry all know this. The crimper is just the visible part, but there is work that goes into supporting such a tool and process. QA is part of the solution, but inspection is not fix. It can be done at a reasonable cost, but it takes engineering, training and management to achieve.

[Seattle_Lion]

It seems to me that the real issue is not so much build quality as quality control. Testing and inspection appear to be hit or miss across the industry. Based on my very limited experience and lots of reading here and elsewhere, it appears that the engineering and material handling technology is pretty good across the board. There are lots of different ways to build a trailer and each way has its fans and haters. However, there are a lot of happy customers for all of them.

My trailer is a very good case in point. The Kodiak has a floor plan I love and the construction is lightweight and sturdy (aluminum, foam, some luan ,fiberglass). Our trailer developed more than four serious leaks in the water supply (PEX) pipes. One leak was so serious the dealer had to cut the belly pan (was rubber) to let out hundreds of gallons. They finally had to replace all of the PEX. The problem was poor crimps on the fittings. The quality of the pipe and fittings was fine. Apparently a bad crimper at the factory failed to make good connection.

I spoke to the head of quality control at the Kodiak factory. He opened up the screen with my trailer's inspection reports. He said that the plumbing was pressure tested. He was surprised it failed. Obviously, the pressure test was inadequate to uncover a problem that occurred the first time city water went into the trailer. The dealer found and fixed the first leak in the pre-delivery inspection. The other leaks occured a few days later. There were other problems too, but they were minor and cosmetic in nature (bad cabinet gluing, broken handle on the TV antenna). All of the problems would have been discovered in a good inspection program.

This is exactly like computer software. No matter how good the engineering and coding, without really good testing bugs will emerge in the product. Detroit learned this lesson from Japan where quality is an obsession. Indiana needs to visit Detroit.

I wondered how this shoddy Quality Assurance (QA) could continue. After all, the manufacturer has to pay the dealer to fix all warranty issues. It turns out that the RV industry has a practice of paying dealers nowhere near the real cost of fixing warranty problems. This is the big reason why it is hard to find any dealer to fix your TT if he didn't sell it to you. Warranty repairs is a money loser for dealers, and a pretty small expense for manufacturers. My dealer's service manager told me that replacing the belly pan for my trailer took his technicians 2 1/2 days to do. They had to drill out hundreds of rivets, remove the pan, then reattach the new one. The factory only allowed 3 hours for this job. If the dealer had been fairly compensated, the work on my trailer (new plumbing and belly pan) would have sucked all of the profit out of the sale.

If low quality removes the profit for a trailer, there is an incentive to at least, look into adding better QA. QA isn't free. It takes time and people. As long as the cost of fixing QA misses is cheaper than discovering issues in the factory, the quality of RV's will continue to be poor.

It seems to me that every brand name TT is engineered well and has good quality components. If each TT were carefully inspected and issues fixed before sending to the dealer, we would all be a lot happier. Moreover, if the manufacturers compensated dealers fairly for warranty work, we would be able to go to any dealer that sells our brand and get fixes when needed instead of traveling to the dealer who made the sale.

End of rant.

[Andymon]

We have an 08 Springdale 266 and (knock on wood) have not had any issues. Everything actually seems to be built pretty good. My only complaint so far is that i wish the drawers in the kitchen and bath were of better quality and had better guides. I will probably work on those sometime this year. We bought it because it had the layout we wanted and the color scheme we liked. We looked at a lot of TT over two years and kept coming back to this one.

[rbtglove]

You might try this site - http://www.myrvguide.com/RV/manufacturers/survey/rate_your_rv_results.html Having spent many years in the QA business I agree with most of the what has been said. RVs are not like autos which are mass produced. Many link grade with fit and finish but they are different. You can get a lemon with any brand. To me a quality RV is one that meets my needs at a cost I am willing to pay and the manufacturer stands behind what they sell.

[Bluestreak]

I wish I knew what RV quality was. It’s an elusive thing and it changes often. Its factory dependent, shift dependent and time of year dependent. There are materials, appliances, technology, production methods, engineering, supervision, training, schedule, philosophy and environment all to consider. Leaks happen in entry level trailers and high-end coaches. Screws miss the mark, the glue does not hold, the weld was bad and the supervisor was having a bad day. As someone mentioned, the same model made a week apart could have a serious problem and the other could be perfect. A lot depends on the level of engineering, the maturity of the design and the training and supervision of the assemblers. I am about to buy my 5th trailer in 18 years. It will be a two axle travel trailer. It may be new, it may be used. It may have any sort of wall construction and siding configuration. It will be between 26 and 30 feet long and it will have a slide. I have looked at 50+ trailers just in the last 2 months, new and used. There is a LOT of variability in quality and condition. Whatever I buy will be checked and inspected in great detail to determine just what kind of shape the unit is in before I hand over my money. My advice? Decide how much you can spend, find a dealer you can work with and trust, find a floor plan you like, look at multiple brands that have the same or similar plan and see how each company does it differently, write down what you see, what you like and don't like. If you have kids, buy a used trailer. If this is your first RV, buy a used trailer. If you have not towed before, find out from the manufacturer the tow rating of your van, SUV or truck. Don’t trust the RV sales person to know. Go to an RV show and talk to the factory reps that will be there. Ask questions, it’s always a good idea! As you look at rigs, take pictures, talk about it with friends that have some experience (if you don't) and then try and make a deal. Then inspect or pay a 3rd party to do a full inspection, then do a walk through, have the dealer fix the problems now (or negotiate with the seller for a lower price) and then and only then sign the paperwork and hand over your money. Sounds like a lot of work, I know, but it will pay off! Good Luck.

[tatest]

Sprindale and Sprinter are the cheapest lines the Keystone makes. One is "traditional" constructuction, the other "modern" laminated panel construction introduced in the 1970s.

[krobbe]

The first thing I looked for is the structural materials used in construction.
I prefer welded aluminum framing for strength and no rot, a molded front cap that won't delaminate, and siding that is smooth and easy to clean.
After that it comes down to layout, fit and finish, and convenience items.

[old_guy]

building a RV is not rocket science. and the TT you are looking at is entry level TT. on the other side of the scale, a guy I know bought a $300K Monaco and it fell apart the first day he had it and since he bought it in Wyoming and they don't have the three day buyers remorse law, he is rebuilding it for the last four months. So that proves that no matter what you buy, go through it with a fine tooth comb and try every thing. and by the way, the guy with the Monaco, it couldn't have happened to a nicer guy. I know him you don't.

[doxiluvr]

Since most travel trailers are pretty much built similar in all brands, to me it boils down to what you can afford (without taking a 10 year loan) and how much you are going to use it. For example, Thor Industries own Airstream, Crossroads, Dutchmen, Heartland, Keystone and Livin Lite. I would say their quality control would be the same for all these brands depending on price. I think a lot of the quality boils down to how well you maintain and take care of the trailer regardless of the brand. Our Keystone Sprinter is 7 years old and in excellent condition and we have basically had no quality issues with it. We also do not mistreat it and remember it is not a stick built house and it is not going to be of the same quality which would make it too heavy to pull. To me it boils down to finding a model you can pull with your TV; a floorplan that fits your needs; appliances and HVAC systems that are reliable; furniture and cabinetry that you like; and it is comfortable for you. I like the comforts of having a bathroom; a good mattress; enough closet and cabinet space; and has two slideouts for roominess and is easy to take care of. I prefer not to have to take too much time to straighten it up and/or clean it and I enjoy being out enjoying the outdoors, sightseeing, and good restaurants. 🙂

[colliehauler]

ford truck guy wrote:
As stated already... ALMOST every RV manufacturer and several lines (price points)... This way they have a shot at every category of buyer... entry level , midrange , upgraded , luxury ... ect...Does not mean that they are built any worse then the others,, just that they went left while the rest went right while on the assembly line. May have a Hisense TV standard instead of a Samsung.. and so on

X 2 I have had no problem with entry level trailers as long as I maintained them. If you don't maintain them you will have problems.

[ford_truck_guy]

As stated already... ALMOST every RV manufacturer and several lines (price points)... This way they have a shot at every category of buyer... entry level , midrange , upgraded , luxury ... ect...Does not mean that they are built any worse then the others,, just that they went left while the rest went right while on the assembly line. May have a Hisense TV standard instead of a Samsung.. and so on

[B_O__Plenty]

Springdale is an entry level trailer. No better or worse or any others in the same price categories. In reality they're all junk and you wonder how they stay together going down the road, but somehow they do. All the brands use pretty much the same construction methods, components and appliances. The people that built Springdales may have been building Jayco last month. They go where the work is. Buy the floorplan you like it won't matter much what brand it is..

B.O.

[goducks10]

Springdale's are on the low end of Keystones lineup. Doesn't mean they're built cheaply, just means the components may not be a nice as their mid and upper level units.