Travel Trailer Tow questions

[jawsthemeswimmi]

My wife and I have been thinking about trading in our 2012 Palomino Yearling 4100 popup camper for a travel trailer. We know what floorplan we want in a travel trailer and have been researching various models/manufacturers. Wants:

Around 4000lbs max
Heat
AC
Full bathroom (shower toilet sink)
2 burner stove minimum
Microwave or oven
Kitchen sink
Bunk beds (preferably double bunks)
Queen bed
U shaped dinette or standard dinette and couch on slideout (not required but it'd be nice)
Awning
Electric brakes
Some type of sway control

Any suggestions? I have it narrowed down to a few meeting all or most of these requirements:

KZ Spree Escape e250s
KZ Spree Escape 196s
Gulfstream Amerilite 248bh
Forest River Rockwood Mini Lite 2306
Gulf Breeze Ultra Lite 24RBH
Coachmen Clipper Ultralite 21bh
Primetime RV Tracer Air 205AIR
Forest River Wildwood X Lite 201BHXL
Forest River Flagstaff Microlite 23LB

Our biggest issue/concern is the tow vehicle is a 2014 Grand Cherokee 4x4 with a V6 engine. Max towing on the Grand Cherokee is 6200lbs. Is it unrealistic for me to expect this vehicle to be able to pull the type of trailer we want? If we stay around 4000lbs dry, I can't imagine we'd be over 5000lbs when loaded up. Is someone out there pulling a travel trailer or something similar with a similarly equipped vehicle. I'd love to hear some first hand experience? Suggestions?

Thanks in advance for everyone's input.

[ssthrd]

Thanks drsteve. That's the one I was looking for.

[drsteve]

The tongue weight--all of it--is still part of the truck's cargo, regardless of how you set your WD hitch. Read the excellent sticky in the Towing forum to learn how a WD works, and what it does and does not do. The author is a mechanical engineer, and knows whereof he speaks.


Clicky

[ssthrd]

One more thought here..... It took me awhile to understand how a weight distribution system works because it was quite confusing to my older feeble (at times) brain. I tried to find the article which best explained it, and I will keep looking and post it when I find it.

Basically, the tongue weight does not change after you hook up the weight distribution hitch. All it does is take some of the weight applied by the tongue to the rear axle of the tow vehicle and transfer it to the front wheels of the tow vehicle and back to the trailer axles. The tongue weight is constant, although there is a slight difference because the angle between the trailer frame and the truck frame changes when the weight distribution system levels the combination. If you understand a bit about basic physics and vectors, you will know what that is about.

I have to think of it this way...... If you put a 50 pound backpack on and kneel on the floor upright, then all of that 50 pounds will be supported by the contact points of your knees and your toes. Now bend forward until your hands touch the floor and you have a bit of weight on them. THE BACKPACK STILL WEIGHS 50 POUNDS, but you have effectively removed some of the weight from your knees/toes and transferred it to your hands. The more you lean forward to straighten your back, the more weight you will transfer to your hands, and remove from your knees/toes. Effectively the same thing that the WD system does--level the truck and transfer weight FROM THE AXLE, NOT FROM THE HITCH.

Imagine that you are lying face down and you are being supported only by a narrow bench which is a foot off the floor. Your back is straight, so your hands, head and feet are not touching the floor. Now imagine that someone to put a 100 lb bag of flour across the back of your ankles. Your feet go down and your head goes up. Now get someone to grab your ankles and lift up until you are level again. You still have 100 lbs pushing down on your ankles, but now the person (acting as the weight distribution hitch) has stabilized you and transferred some of the force to himself.

Substitute people parts to truck/trailer parts, and hopefully you will begin to understand what happens Same thing happens with the tow vehicle when you hook up your trailer.

Pretty unscientific analogies, and I am not the best explainer for sure, but it works for me.

Hope this helps.

[ssthrd]

To the OP

To your question, I had a 2009 Toyota Tacoma which was rated for a 6500 # trailer, had 236 horsepower, and 266 lbs-ft of torque. Can't remember the payload number, but I believe it was something just under 1500#. I towed a Springdale 202 which scaled at about 5300 pounds loaded. Tongue weight was close to 600 pounds. I had an 800 pound Husky spring bar hitch with one friction bar for sway control. I used a Tekonsha P3 for brake control which I still have in my current setup. Braking was never an issue even in the mountains.

I would say that the truck itself was adequate for the pull under most conditions. When it became stormy with cross winds, or a semi passed from the rear, the setup deficiencies became obvious. The wind in either case would move the combination around a bit. Sway was not a problem at all, but I became aware of the weight behind me for sure. Never dangerous, but the comfort level while driving definitely decreased. Not a relaxing drive for sure. Having said that, the motor was great on the flatter ground, but when we were in the mountains or driving into a head wind, I was definitely wishing for more power.

I ended up trading the Tacoma for a 2013 Tundra which was like night to day in terms of ability to tow, and comfort while doing so. I should say that I have towed a variety of trailers for 20,000 miles or so, so experience is not an issue. At least some would say! 🙂

In my opinion, the proper setup for a trailer of that weight would include at least a half ton truck and another 100 horsepower. The added weight of the truck is a bonus, and more power is always great but with the poorer gas mileage as a down side.

I would suggest going to a dealer that would allow you to take the trailer that you are interested in for a test spin and go to a truck scale while you have it to get the real weights that you need to make a determination on whether or not you are within specs of your Jeep, and more importantly to get a sense of your comfort level while on the road.

http://auto.howstuffworks.com/auto-parts/towing/equipment/hitches/towing-weight-distribution-systems.htm

Hope this helps.

[blt2ski]

I've corrected some of the android phone auto-incorrections on the post above. My Walaby/Mike has better corrected what I was trying to get across re what a WD will do. You DO NOT want to remove ALL of the HW to the front axel or trailer so you have no HW. You can do this. You want to put back to the FA, what was taken off when loading the trailer on the ball mount. If your Jeep has 500 lbs removed from the front, you need to get this amount back to the front via a WD system. If you only remove say 50-60 lbs like 750 lbs might do on a dually, then a WD is probably not needed from a handling issue.

There is not a simple easy answer to this. Generally speaking, you are probably ok, UNLESS, you have a family of 6 as I do, with now 20 somethings, but 4 teens adult size in stature, that between the 6 of you, you are in the 1200-1300 lbs range, then do to the fact you have generally speaking, NO PAYLOAD for hitch weight, you have no trailer tow capacity. It does not sound like you have this issue.

marty

[Walaby]

Here's a link that might help with your calculations


TT Weight Calculator

[Walaby]

I was having a hard time following blt2ski as well but what I think he was trying to say is the WD hitch will take that 750 lbs and distribute a portion of it to the front axles of the tow vehicle and a portion to the axles of the trailer. It is not necessarily equal distribution. A portion still also remains on the rear axle. The intent of the WD hitch is to put the amount of weight that is lost off the front axle, back onto the front axle, thereby improving stability. Whenever you hook up the trailer, without a WD hitch, weight is removed from the front axle. WD hitch puts it back.. And you set it up to put as much of the lost weigh back on.

Yes, a portion does go to the trailer too. But, you can't know how much, until you actually weigh and have your WD hitch setup. So, you need to assume most, if not all of the tongue weight will be on the Tow Vehicle.. combo of front axle and rear axle.

The sticker should be on drivers door. Sorry bout that...

It's true that vehicles are better today than older ones. But, it is reflected by improved cargo capacities over the older vehicles. But, you still have a limit, and it's important to understand the limits, and make an informed decision whether you want to exceed the limits or not.

You have no way of knowing how much weight gets distributed to the travel trailer axles until you weigh it, fully setup. By then, if you make a miscalculation, you're stuck with your purchase.

Hope it helps

Mike

[jawsthemeswimmi]

I'm not sure I understood all of what you said. Sorry, this is all really new to me. But it sounded like you are saying I should be good with the Jeep and a WDH?

[blt2ski]

A WD in a nutshell, transfers weight off the rear axle back onto the front axle and trailer axles that came off due to the settling of the rear. IE if you put 750 lbs of hw on rear it might gain say 1000 lbs vs empty. Half of the additional 250 lbs might be off of the fa and ta's. A WD will put this extra 250 lbs back to the fa and ta. Reality is, if you try to put too much of the hw to the front or trailer axles, you may over load one or the other. the how much is removed off the fa will depend on many items, IE wheel base, rear suspension capacity, and even the weight on the fa due to a gas vs diesel setup along with how far behind the RA the hitch ball is, shorter overhang is better. 750 lbs on a dually might remove.all of 60 lbs off the fa. Your jeep on the other hand might be 250-500 lbs.
Personally, I.would not worry to much about a 3500-4000 lb dry trailer coming in at 5000 lbs loaded. Rigs Tuesdays are way better than years ago. You probably have more hp than the first bb v8 I drove, which was just under 200 hp.

Marty

[jawsthemeswimmi]

Walaby – Yes, mine is the 4x4 and the max payload is 1320lbs.

I see what you’re saying as far as cargo carrying capacity. However, if I get a 4000lb dry trailer and load it to 5000lbs a 15% tongue weight would be 750lbs (like you said). Wouldn’t a weight distributing hitch help with this? How much weight can I figure the WDH would take off the tongue?

I looked for the sticker on the passenger door and did not see it. Could it be somewhere else or am I just missing it?

Thanks for the advice.



ChooChooMan74 – Thanks and it’s the 8-speed. I’m definitely going to be looking at a weight distributing hitch. I’m just having some issues working out the numbers and making sure my vehicle is properly equipped to tow the max.

[Walaby]

Don't pay attention to max tow capacity. Cargo capacity is what you should be concerned with. I have a 2014 Grand Cherokee (non 4WD)... Not that I tow with it.

According to the stats I've seen, the MAX cargo capacity of any of the 4WD models is 1320 lbs. Some of the models are significantly less.

So, your cargo capacity has to take into consideration all passenger weights, anything else you load in the jeep, the weight of your WD hitch (~100 lbs), and the tongue weight of your trailer. Tongue weight needs to be 13-15 percent of the trailer weight. So, a trailer loaded that weights 5000 lbs, the tongue weight would be between 650 and 750 lbs. Lets say 650. 1320-650 (tongue weight) = 670 lbs

670 - 100 for WD hitch = 570

That's how much you would have left for you, the wife, and I assume 2-4 kids (given you want double bunk beds). And again, that is the MAX cargo capacity of any of the jeep 4wd's.

To get your cargo capacity look on passenger door for the yellow and black sticker. It will say something like max weight of all cargo, including occupants equals xxxx lbs.

Mike

[coolmom42]

Your biggest weight problem is going to be the cargo capacity of your tow vehicle. The tongue weight of the trailer should be 10-15% of the loaded trailer weight. That tongue weight becomes part of your cargo. To that, you will need to add a good weight distributing hitch such as Equal-i-zer (about 60 lb), plus the weight of all passengers and their belongings loaded in the Cherokee.

So find the cargo capacity of your vehicle and start doing the math.

Tow rating is only part of the equation when it comes to selecting a proper vehicle/RV combo.

[ChooChooMan74]

Welcome to the Forum,

1st off, I would like to thank and congratulate you on doing your homework. You're doing good. 2nd, don't underestimate the Pentastar V6. It isn't a Hemi, but it will do the job at an easier pace. Does your JGC have the 8 Speed or 6 Speed transmission? The Car and Driver test shows it has the 8. I have the 8 in my EcoDiesel Ram, and it is awesome.

I was towing with a Jeep Liberty with a 4 cylinder diesel. It got the job done, but it was a handful. Your JGC is a bit more vehicle than my Liberty, and staying small is a good choice, especially for novices. I had many years of towing beforehand when I got back into camping, so towing with the Jeep was OK for me.

One thing I do suggest is a good Weight Distribution Hitch with Sway Control. I will suggest the Equal-i-zer 4 Point system. It is easy to setup for novices and does a great job.