What would you do?

[bwlyon]

Well, I have a dilemma on my hands. After buying a 2017 XD Titan last year only to find out I severely underestimated my research as to actual payload capacity of the truck. I decided I’d do even more research this time, then find a truck with lots of actual payload capacity! Voila, I found a Ram 3500 Mega Cab, SRW, 4x4 with an actual capacity of 4069 lbs, traded in Nissan and bought the truck! Then the search was on for a camper to put on it. After much consternation, I decided to buy a used 2012 Ascent S85RS with lots of bells and whistles from truck camper warehouse! While not perfect, everything worked, it had everything we wanted, with a good floor plan for our needs, and was half the price of a new Arctic Fox 811 and listed listed wet weight was 3200lbs. I figured water and propane and did the best I could to get a ready to travel weight figured out, and came up with roughly 4200 lb travel weight. Long story short, I drive 1400 miles to New Hampshire start driving home and get to the 1st Cat Scale only to find this hulk weighs 4000lbs dry with full propane! OUCH. Anyway, in dismay, I drive Home without incident. Then me and the fiance fill it full of water, groceries and gear jump in the truck and head to the scales to see just how fat this pig can get! Truck and camper fully wet and ready for travel, 13,100lb Gross weight with a truck that's rated for 11400, with 8,700 on the rear axle that's only rated to 7000 YIKES!The Camper with an advertised wet weight of 3200 is actually an elephant at 5000lbs ready to go! And that’s with the spare tire on a front mounted carrier. Well it was worrisome to say the least. We safely made a 5700 mile trip to California and back home this Summer with a bone stock Truck with the factory air suspension then did a 500 mile stretch last month. Which leads to my question what would you do? With that in mind we do boon-dock a lot as we can carry 50 gallons of fresh water and have an Onan Generator on board, so there’s really no weight to cut. Would you go to 19.5 wheels and call it good? Would you bite the bullet and get a dually with 6000lbs of payload capacity 9750 lb rear axle capacity? Would you get mad and torch it (kidding)! The thing that worries me most is blowouts (tires rated for 3600 each)followed by bending the axle housing! Love my set up but question it’s ability to hold up over time. What say you?

[billtex]

Something ‘ain’t right. Our HEAVY Eagle cap 850 doesn’t put that much weight on rear axle.
Not even close.
You should re-visit the scales.

[Kayteg1]

HMS Beagle wrote:
All RVs should carry a consumer warning sticker on the door which says, "CAUTION: The weights claimed in any of the manufacturer's literature are unreliable, and actual weights are likely to se substantially higher."

This has been true of every RV I have purchased.

The only exception I had was Prevost conversion.
It was estimated at 20 tons and when I scaled it, it turn out to be only 16 tons.
When I was selling it and pull all the junk I was carrying in storage bays, the stuff filled up double garage floor.

[HMS_Beagle]

All RVs should carry a consumer warning sticker on the door which says, "CAUTION: The weights claimed in any of the manufacturer's literature are unreliable, and actual weights are likely to se substantially higher."

This has been true of every RV I have purchased.

[wnjj]

bwlyon wrote:
https://www.rv.net/forum/index.cfm/fuseaction/thread/tid/24853750/print/true.cfm

Here is a link to the literature on my Camper I pulled from another thread in the forum. Mine is the S85R. To bad it is way more of a beast than the lit actually states that it is. With that said, I believe it is one of the best laid out floor plans for a short bed truck. The only real draw back is the dining area is cramped, or I need to lose 50 lbs. It's probably the later. The thing we love about it is we can use the bathroom anytime and the whole camper for that matter, without pushing the slide out. It has tons of storage for things you buy while on vacation too.

It looks like we are going to be hunting for a new truck!

If you get rid of the "/print/true.cfm", the thread will come up "normal":

https://www.rv.net/forum/index.cfm/fuseaction/thread/tid/24853750

[bwlyon]

https://www.rv.net/forum/index.cfm/fuseaction/thread/tid/24853750/print/true.cfm

Here is a link to the literature on my Camper I pulled from another thread in the forum. Mine is the S85R. To bad it is way more of a beast than the lit actually states that it is. With that said, I believe it is one of the best laid out floor plans for a short bed truck. The only real draw back is the dining area is cramped, or I need to lose 50 lbs. It's probably the later. The thing we love about it is we can use the bathroom anytime and the whole camper for that matter, without pushing the slide out. It has tons of storage for things you buy while on vacation too.

It looks like we are going to be hunting for a new truck!

[valhalla360]

Optimistic Paranoid wrote:

I nevertheless get a bit nervous whenever somebody in a forum offers an opinion that appears to contradict logic and the laws of physics, at least in so far as I think I understand them.

If you are running with rear COG personally, do you have with and without scale readings on your setup?

While having it slightly ahead of the rear axle is better...the laws of physics say it's not really a big deal unless it gets extreme.

Let's take a 4000lb camper on a 16ft wheel base:
- 0.5 ft ahead of the axle: 125lb will be added to the front axle and 3875 will be added to the rear axle.
- 0.5 ft behind the axle: It will remove 125lb from the front axle and add 4125lb to the rear axle.

Taking 125lb off a 3500lb front axle shouldn't impact steering. In fact going from diesel to gas will remove as much or more weight from the front axle.

Adding 250lb to the rear axle is only an issue if it pushes you over the rear axle rating.

By comparison, a 4000lb trailer (no WDH) 4 ft behind the rear axle and 15% tongue weight (600lb)...will take 150lb off the front axle (more than the truck camper). It does only add 750lb to the rear axle.

[Grit_dog]

free radical wrote:
To add my 2 sense in..
Dont know where the OP drives,but isnt it illegal to be thousand pounds overloaded?
Here in Ontario truck enforcement safety cops are very strict and do pull over and check many trucks to see if youre overweight..

Too many accidents due to truckers not giving a sh**t about rules.
Dont come this way plz if youre overloaded.

Actually US cops don’t give a _______.

[bwlyon]

DutchmenSport wrote:

bwlyon wrote:

valhalla360 wrote:

Getting rid of camper is a definite no. ... I'm seriously considering a new Ram 3500 long bed dually, and building a wooden bulkhead/platform to sit in front of camper to stop foward movement. ...Our plan is maybe in the next 5 years or so to move up to a Lance 1062 or Arctic Fox 990 and would need a long bed truck.

I think you have just answered your own question. I think this is the wisest choice. I'm positive, you'll be much happier with the dually carrying that weight! (But my opinion is biased anyway).

Do one thing though, compare the 3 big manufacturers and get the truck that has the most payload capacity for the dually. You won't regret it.

I won't buy a Chevy or Ford HD truck because I'm partial to Ram. I imagine Ford would be the lightest. I can get into the upper 5000 lb range maybe a bit over 6000 lb for cargo capacity with the Ram. Taking the weight of my truck and figuring a generous 500 lbs extra for the dual wheels, longer bed and frame, should be right at 6000 lbs of capacity as I won't be getting a diesel.

[bwlyon]

Optimistic Paranoid wrote:
The problem with putting a short bed camper on a long bed truck is that you might be shifting the camper's center of gravity back too far. The camper's center of gravity MUST be forward of - or at worst, directly above - the truck's rear axle.

If it falls BEHIND the rear axle, the rear axle acts like the center of one of those playground teeter-totters and actually takes weight OFF the front axle, which can cause steering and handling safety issues.

***Link Removed***

Fortunately, the COG is dead center over the axle with no water on board, and actually foward of center when full of water, so the the steer axle actually stays the same with no water, or when full of water it get heavier.
Actually my statement is incorrect, I lose 400 lbs off the front axle with no water and then when full of water COG is directly over center of rear axle as the steer axle weight is the same when with camper off truck and when camper is fully wet.

[mbloof]

My $0.02 is if cost is not a issue, toss a bigger truck at it.

PS: There is no shame in upgrading to 19.5 wheels/tires. Many SRW's have the same rear end as the DRW models, only missing two rim's and tires.

[wnjj]

Optimistic Paranoid wrote:

wnjj wrote:
Putting a short bed camper on a long bed truck is perfectly OK. So is having the COG behind the rear axle, despite the RVrumormill.net opinion.

I have no personal experience with running a truck/camper combo with the center of gravity behind the rear axle.

I nevertheless get a bit nervous whenever somebody in a forum offers an opinion that appears to contradict logic and the laws of physics, at least in so far as I think I understand them.

If you are running with rear COG personally, do you have with and without scale readings on your setup?

I don't have personal experience as mine is slightly forward (at least until I add the trailer) but according to publications from GM, my camper COG can be anywhere in the bed so long as the percentage of total weight carried by the front axle meets a certain minimum.

COG of a truck plus the camper is all the axles see. They don't care one bit whether it's weight from the truck or its cargo. When empty, the rear axle weighs less than the front. When loaded with a camper the rear weighs close to 2x the front. How can a few hundreds pounds one way or the other make any measurable difference?

[Charley67]

For about 15 years I had two different 2500 diesel trucks and I never felt unsafe, though I probably was. I now have a 3500, and while I don’t like parking it in tight places as much, I sure love the way it handles with a truck camper on it or a 5th wheel behind it. I agree with the thinking that you will not have a COG issue with a long bed, and you’ll love that extra storage space.

[free_radical]

To add my 2 sense in..
Dont know where the OP drives,but isnt it illegal to be thousand pounds overloaded?
Here in Ontario truck enforcement safety cops are very strict and do pull over and check many trucks to see if youre overweight..

Too many accidents due to truckers not giving a sh**t about rules.
Dont come this way plz if youre overloaded.

[zcookiemonstar]

Well you could always get a small cargo trailer and move some of the weight to the trailer. It will not solve your problem but get you into a safer zone.

[Optimistic_Para]

burningman wrote:
To all you people who think the sky will fall if you have your camper COG slightly behind the rear axle - what do you think happens when you hitch a heavy trailer at the rear bumper, four feet behind the rear axle?
And how about the guys who add four more feet with a hitch extension?

Not to beat this subject to death . . .

You are comparing apples to oranges. Put a 4,000 lb. camper on the back of a truck and the truck's rear suspension has to carry all 4,000 lbs. Hitch a 4,000 lb. trailer up and you're only adding 400 lbs. of tongue weight.

If you're pulling a really heavy trailer, you're required to use a Weight Distributing Hitch, which makes the front end carry a lot of the load.

And as for hitch extensions, IIRC, the hitch manufacturers require you to DERATE the receiver and carry LESS tongue Weight when using a hitch extension.

(The Torklift Super Truss being a special case.)