What would you do?

[bwlyon]

Well, I have a dilemma on my hands. After buying a 2017 XD Titan last year only to find out I severely underestimated my research as to actual payload capacity of the truck. I decided I’d do even more research this time, then find a truck with lots of actual payload capacity! Voila, I found a Ram 3500 Mega Cab, SRW, 4x4 with an actual capacity of 4069 lbs, traded in Nissan and bought the truck! Then the search was on for a camper to put on it. After much consternation, I decided to buy a used 2012 Ascent S85RS with lots of bells and whistles from truck camper warehouse! While not perfect, everything worked, it had everything we wanted, with a good floor plan for our needs, and was half the price of a new Arctic Fox 811 and listed listed wet weight was 3200lbs. I figured water and propane and did the best I could to get a ready to travel weight figured out, and came up with roughly 4200 lb travel weight. Long story short, I drive 1400 miles to New Hampshire start driving home and get to the 1st Cat Scale only to find this hulk weighs 4000lbs dry with full propane! OUCH. Anyway, in dismay, I drive Home without incident. Then me and the fiance fill it full of water, groceries and gear jump in the truck and head to the scales to see just how fat this pig can get! Truck and camper fully wet and ready for travel, 13,100lb Gross weight with a truck that's rated for 11400, with 8,700 on the rear axle that's only rated to 7000 YIKES!The Camper with an advertised wet weight of 3200 is actually an elephant at 5000lbs ready to go! And that’s with the spare tire on a front mounted carrier. Well it was worrisome to say the least. We safely made a 5700 mile trip to California and back home this Summer with a bone stock Truck with the factory air suspension then did a 500 mile stretch last month. Which leads to my question what would you do? With that in mind we do boon-dock a lot as we can carry 50 gallons of fresh water and have an Onan Generator on board, so there’s really no weight to cut. Would you go to 19.5 wheels and call it good? Would you bite the bullet and get a dually with 6000lbs of payload capacity 9750 lb rear axle capacity? Would you get mad and torch it (kidding)! The thing that worries me most is blowouts (tires rated for 3600 each)followed by bending the axle housing! Love my set up but question it’s ability to hold up over time. What say you?

[bwlyon]

HMS Beagle wrote:
All RVs should carry a consumer warning sticker on the door which says, "CAUTION: The weights claimed in any of the manufacturer's literature are unreliable, and actual weights are likely to se substantially higher."

This has been true of every RV I have purchased.

When you think about it, the whole truck camper industry would vanish like a fart in a fan factory if they actually had to physically weigh every camper they produced dry/wet. Once weighed post the actual weights on the sticker they have to put on their campers. I'm not a weight COP by any stretch of the imagination, but if you go by the numbers many campers would require a minimum of a 1 ton SRW Truck.

[bwlyon]

12V Cummins wrote:
Don't the RAM 3500s have a AAM 10.5 rear axle that is rated for a little over 10k rating? Also he said he had the factory rear air suspension which is the exact same suspension you get in a DRW if you order it. So basically same rear suspension as a dually with the air and plenty of axle rating rated by the axle mfg. I'd look for some 19.5s.

There is at least one difference, the 3500 DRW set up has and that is 3 full length springs in the spring pack and one half length spring with the factory air system, the SRW has two full length springs and 2 half springs with its air system.

[bwlyon]

Grit dog wrote:
^ If the camper is actually 5klbs plus, then, ya she's a porker. Can't imagine the camper itself is much heavier than any of the other big 9' slidout campers though. Maybe see of the previous owner filled the cabinets with lead or something. Maybe you can drop a few pounds out of it, or check your weight again.
Otherwise, a new 3500 anything will haul a 4000-4500lb camper easily. It's not really a thing.

Oh she’s a porker alright, got the CAT SCALE tickets to prove it. Make Miss Piggy look like svelt bikini model! But when you look at other Campers in its class and with the same goodies installed it’s within the same weight range. While the camper is advertised as an 8’ 11” camper my tape measure reads 9’ 5” which explains some of the extra weight. All in all though, we love our pig! 🙂

[Grit_dog]

^ If the camper is actually 5klbs plus, then, ya she's a porker. Can't imagine the camper itself is much heavier than any of the other big 9' slidout campers though. Maybe see of the previous owner filled the cabinets with lead or something. Maybe you can drop a few pounds out of it, or check your weight again.
Otherwise, a new 3500 anything will haul a 4000-4500lb camper easily. It's not really a thing.

[whizbang]

OP --- As soon as you started your story, I knew where you where going. I went there myself and have seen it 100 times on this forum.

Your options are 1) smaller camper or 2) larger truck.

Good luck.

[ticki2]

d3500ram wrote:
Adapters, while an easy change-over to create a pseudo-dually, I have heard opinion that there could be other or different wear factors because the axle tube dimension (track/ width) is longer on the dually where as the SRW has a narrower width.

IIRC it had something to do with axle bearing placement relative to the outer edge: a longer moment is created on the bearings by the fact the force (CL of wheels) is further away when compared to the factory dually axle track.

Any opinion on that? I had thought briefly of doing the conversion on my SRW 3500 until that thesis was presented to me.

A Few years back I looked into this as I was thinking of going the other way , DRW to SRW for beach travel . Never went further as DRW are now allowed on most beaches . Bare in mind this is for '01 - '10 GMC . Other brand and years may differ . A DRW pickup axle is 4" wider than a SRW pickup , the frame width is the same . A DRW cab/chassis has a 4" narrower frame and the same width axle as a SRW . So I would conclude that GM is using the same axle for SRW and a DRW cc except for spring perches . To convert you would also need the front wheel spacers . I have not checked the pn for the bearings but I bet they are the same . The centerline for the load on the bearing whether drw or srw are almost the same. The problem with the bearings with a conversion is now you need extra spacers for the rear for the inner wheel to clear the springs because you have the wide frame and the narrow axle . This configuration will put extra load on the bearings . To do it right you need the longer axle from a drw pickup

[d3500ram]

Adapters, while an easy change-over to create a pseudo-dually, I have heard opinion that there could be other or different wear factors because the axle tube dimension (track/ width) is longer on the dually where as the SRW has a narrower width.

IIRC it had something to do with axle bearing placement relative to the outer edge: a longer moment is created on the bearings by the fact the force (CL of wheels) is further away when compared to the factory dually axle track.

Any opinion on that? I had thought briefly of doing the conversion on my SRW 3500 until that thesis was presented to me.

[KD4UPL]

You likely already have the same axle as a dually truck. That should be easy to verify. Then, all you need are some adapters to put the second set of wheels and tires on your existing axle and you have a dually. You can make anything into a dually, I've seen vans and Suburbans with dualls in the rear. You will need to add some fender flares to cover the outside tires, or swap the bed to one with the dually fenders.
Or, just put 19.5" wheels and tires on what you have.

[Grit_dog]

d3500ram wrote:

12V Cummins wrote:
Don't the RAM 3500s have a AAM 10.5 rear axle that is rated for a little over 10k rating? Also he said he had the factory rear air suspension which is the exact same suspension you get in a DRW if you order it. So basically same rear suspension as a dually with the air and plenty of axle rating rated by the axle mfg. I'd look for some 19.5s.

I know that to be true up though the 3G models, but after that I am not sure since DC (or whatever the parent company is now) is changing around their supposedly "heavy duty" pick-up line.

12V, yes you’re referring to the 11.50” axle and yes 10klbs which is the same 2500/3500/dually axle GM and Ram have both used for about 15 years now. Except ram upped the newer 4th gen dually to an 11.8” ring gear.
Yes suspension is the same for air assist as well between srw and dually. Literally the only difference is 2 tires and a wider rear track width.
That’s why these discussions become so inane, because the weight cops refuse to acknowledge these types of things.

[d3500ram]

12V Cummins wrote:
Don't the RAM 3500s have a AAM 10.5 rear axle that is rated for a little over 10k rating? Also he said he had the factory rear air suspension which is the exact same suspension you get in a DRW if you order it. So basically same rear suspension as a dually with the air and plenty of axle rating rated by the axle mfg. I'd look for some 19.5s.

I know that to be true up though the 3G models, but after that I am not sure since DC (or whatever the parent company is now) is changing around their supposedly "heavy duty" pick-up line.

[engine_2]

Had the same problem when I bought my Bigfoot (2500/10.4), ended up buying a 2006 F350 DRW, even then you have to be careful, not all DRW are created equal, check the GVW on the door frame sticker, I needed one with the 13,000 lb gvw, (the heaviest one available that series I think) took some searching, but eventually found what I needed.
Even with the dually I'm right at the max when fully loaded for long trips. The truck tares at ~8200, with two adults, full fuel, water, food, Honda 2000, and other assorted "stuff" we scale out at 12,900 lbs. a friggin' tank, but I don't have to worry about a trailer.

[12V_Cummins]

Don't the RAM 3500s have a AAM 10.5 rear axle that is rated for a little over 10k rating? Also he said he had the factory rear air suspension which is the exact same suspension you get in a DRW if you order it. So basically same rear suspension as a dually with the air and plenty of axle rating rated by the axle mfg. I'd look for some 19.5s.

[deltabravo]

What would I do? Sell it all and buy a dually and an AF.

When I was window shopping for a different rig back in 2009, which was before I sold my 2500HD and Desert Fox, I pretty much had my mind set on an AF811.

In 2008 my brother had bought a new truck, a 3500HD Dually Silverado. He said his reason for buying a dually is because you pretty much wouldn't have to worry about being undersized on the truck for hauling a camper.

The logic made sense to me, so I followed suit and bought a dually when I sold everything that summer (of 2009).

For some, A dually isn't a viable option due to he other duties the truck is used for (commuting, etc).
I've daily driven mine, but not on a tightly packed freeway such as highway 176 in Puyallup/Auburn/Kent or I-5 in Tacoma / Seattle.
It was mostly suburban commute, which was fine.

I live in Spokane now, and have daily driven it some - similar type of driving - suburban, not downtown Spokane.
It's a nuisance to park at the sites I visit during the work day, but I accepted that as a fact of owning a dually.

[Grit_dog]

valhalla360 wrote:

Optimistic Paranoid wrote:

I nevertheless get a bit nervous whenever somebody in a forum offers an opinion that appears to contradict logic and the laws of physics, at least in so far as I think I understand them.

If you are running with rear COG personally, do you have with and without scale readings on your setup?

While having it slightly ahead of the rear axle is better...the laws of physics say it's not really a big deal unless it gets extreme.

Let's take a 4000lb camper on a 16ft wheel base:
- 0.5 ft ahead of the axle: 125lb will be added to the front axle and 3875 will be added to the rear axle.
- 0.5 ft behind the axle: It will remove 125lb from the front axle and add 4125lb to the rear axle.

Taking 125lb off a 3500lb front axle shouldn't impact steering. In fact going from diesel to gas will remove as much or more weight from the front axle.

Adding 250lb to the rear axle is only an issue if it pushes you over the rear axle rating.

By comparison, a 4000lb trailer (no WDH) 4 ft behind the rear axle and 15% tongue weight (600lb)...will take 150lb off the front axle (more than the truck camper). It does only add 750lb to the rear axle.

Don't be breakin out no mathematics and common sense now...
Moment diagrams are not proven, lol, they're the devil Billy Busche! (Adam Sandler)
CoG behind the center of rear axle is pretty much a foregone traffic accident!!