Why Tesla's are bad at towing!

[ShinerBock]

Two words......energy density.

Video - Why Teslas Are Bad At Towing (Today)

Maybe someday, but not today.


Now let the excuses commence......

[Yosemite_Sam1]

Grit dog wrote:
Y’all know what would be awesome is a Christmas Dinner with all the rvnet main players. Shiner, 12V, Kayteg, reidsnder, time2roll, Scooby and our newest kid Rootin Tootin Shootin Yosemite Sam!
Man, that’d be a hoot!

I promise I will come unarmed -- but not alcohol free!:B

And if only this forum will accommodate that many characters in my handle, I would have changed it to Rootin Tootin Shootin Yosemite Sam,

[fj12ryder]

"Rootin Tootin Shootin Yosemite Sam!" LOL

Look up "Keyboard Commando" and you'll see his picture. 🙂

[JRscooby]

ShinerBock wrote:


Who said I sold trucks? I was an assistant fleet management on the consumer side and as an account manager to fleet managers/owners on the dealership side. I was mainly power generation and filtration on the manufacturing side. Now I am a product manager for our 50+ PACCAR dealers.

In my world dealers, no matter how big, sell trucks to, and repair trucks for the people that work trucks, pay fuel tax, and HVUT. I stand by my statement that when it comes to CMVs the road taxes will be paid no matter what power source moves the load.

[Grit_dog]

Y’all know what would be awesome is a Christmas Dinner with all the rvnet main players. Shiner, 12V, Kayteg, reidsnder, time2roll, Scooby and our newest kid Rootin Tootin Shootin Yosemite Sam!
Man, that’d be a hoot!

[time2roll]

Huntindog wrote:
But under your propposal, the EV crowd would still not pay their fair share. Like a true liberal, you want to use more of other peoples money.... Suresales and income taxes will hit more people... But you want to still keep the petrol tax, which you will NOT contribute to at all.

Personally, I see the roads benefiting everyone. So EVERYONE should pay. Doesn't matter whether you drive a car at all. You live in a society that only functions because of roads. food, services, electricity etc. are all possible because roads exist.
So dump the petriol tax, and institute a person tax. Everyone pays a fee for the roads.

Nobody gets a free ride.

My proposal assumes 80%+ moves to electric. Those with special needs to continue with petrol can pay a bit more to mitigate the pollution created, not to pay for roads.

Income tax hits those that can pay more with a higher burden. Sales tax hit virtually everyone just as you suggest.

Fair and equal are not always the same thing.

[ShinerBock]

JRscooby wrote:

ShinerBock wrote:


Yes, over two decades. First on the consumer side for a fleet, then on the manufacturer for both engine and vehicle, and now on the dealership side for the largest class 4-8 truck dealership group in the world(140+ dealerships) I used to work at on the dealership level but currently at the corporate offices. We are also the largest customer of Peterbilt(PACCAR), Navistar, Hino, Isuzu, Ford medium/heavy duty and various other makes.

So selling trucks makes you expert on what taxes the owner and operators of the trucks pay? If I had the money I paid in HVUT, I would be able to buy a new RV.

Who said I sold trucks? I was an assistant fleet management on the consumer side and as an account manager to fleet managers/owners on the dealership side. I was mainly power generation and filtration on the manufacturing side. Now I am a product manager for our 50+ PACCAR dealers.

[JRscooby]

ShinerBock wrote:


Yes, over two decades. First on the consumer side for a fleet, then on the manufacturer for both engine and vehicle, and now on the dealership side for the largest class 4-8 truck dealership group in the world(140+ dealerships) I used to work at on the dealership level but currently at the corporate offices. We are also the largest customer of Peterbilt(PACCAR), Navistar, Hino, Isuzu, Ford medium/heavy duty and various other makes.

So selling trucks makes you expert on what taxes the owner and operators of the trucks pay? If I had the money I paid in HVUT, I would be able to buy a new RV.

[ShinerBock]

JRscooby wrote:

ShinerBock wrote:


As a person who has been in the medium/heavy duty industry for over two decades, I will say that most of this is false.

Over 2 decades?
I don't know what positions you have been in, a lot of them have little, if anything to do with taxes.
I bought, and put to work, my first truck in '71. '73 I was running 3 trucks, 2 trailers and 2 service trucks. At one time I owned and was working 7, but most stayed between 1 and 3. Sold my last truck in '11.

Yes, over two decades. First on the consumer side for a fleet, then on the manufacturer for both engine and vehicle, and now on the dealership side for the largest class 4-8 truck dealership group in the world(140+ dealerships) I used to work at on the dealership level but currently at the corporate offices. We are also the largest customer of Peterbilt(PACCAR), Navistar, Hino, Isuzu, Ford medium/heavy duty and various other makes.

[GeoBoy]

In regards to the road tax for EV’s, every year when your registration comes due an EV vehicle owner pays a road use tax based on average vehicle mileage. Simple.

[JRscooby]

wilber1 wrote:


Just about everything you use in life comes by truck. How do you propose to pay for roads once everyone is using EV's and no longer paying fuel taxes? Right now EV's owners are getting a free ride. That can't continue forever.

When the price of fuel goes up, freight rates go up, but a smaller percentage of the rate goes to the truck. Higher fuel cost are a tax on everybody. Of course most of the increase in the cost of fuel has been driven by oil companies, not fuel tax. That means the "freight rate tax equivalents" have not gone to the government, to benefit the taxpayers, but to oil companies.
As for "fuel" tax on EVs. Could they not use the mileage of like sized cars to set the per mile rate? Every year, when filling out taxes report how many miles you put on your EV, and pay the fuel tax on the gas for a like sized car. I know in my state the odometer reading is reported to the state every time ownership changes, and every couple of years for safety inspection. Compare to the miles reported, tax paid. Make the penalty real stiff for under reporting.

[JRscooby]

ShinerBock wrote:


As a person who has been in the medium/heavy duty industry for over two decades, I will say that most of this is false.

Over 2 decades?
I don't know what positions you have been in, a lot of them have little, if anything to do with taxes.
I bought, and put to work, my first truck in '71. '73 I was running 3 trucks, 2 trailers and 2 service trucks. At one time I owned and was working 7, but most stayed between 1 and 3. Sold my last truck in '11.

Huntindog wrote:

I only speakn English.
The defense dept. sees to it that I do not have to learn another language.

I like our defense dept. You should too.

Sometime, just for snots and grins, print out a list of conflicts the US military has been involved in since you where born. Next, print a list of countries that have invaded US.
I have said for years we aught to move highway maintenance to the defense budget. That would give us unlimited money for highways.

[Huntindog]

time2roll wrote:

Reisender wrote:
What do you propose?

Continue with petrol tax and any shortfall can come from other taxation including income or sales tax.

Road taxes alone are insufficient anyway....

https://www.latimes.com/politics/la-pol-ca-california-gas-tax-increase-road-repairs-20190620-story.h...

So we will need to lean on sales and income taxes anyway.

What do you propose? Ban EVs and double the gas tax? (see article)

But under your propposal, the EV crowd would still not pay their fair share. Like a true liberal, you want to use more of other peoples money.... Suresales and income taxes will hit more people... But you want to still keep the petrol tax, which you will NOT contribute to at all.

Personally, I see the roads benefiting everyone. So EVERYONE should pay. Doesn't matter whether you drive a car at all. You live in a society that only functions because of roads. food, services, electricity etc. are all possible because roads exist.
So dump the petriol tax, and institute a person tax. Everyone pays a fee for the roads.

Nobody gets a free ride.

[valhalla360]

JRscooby wrote:
Many, if not most loads cube out before hit GVW restriction. And many of those loads move plant to plant/terminal to terminal. This is the place for E trucks.
Most folks don't understand that to register a truck for weights over 27 tons IIRC, the owner must pay a extra HVUT. Also, CMVs must keep track of miles driven in each state, the gallons of fuel bought/fuel tax paid. If enough fuel not bought in a state, mail money. It will not be the semis that get away from fuel taxes

Actually, for the same cargo load, a semi will weigh more, so even if they aren't at the 80,000lb limit, it may be 40,000lb for a conventional ICE truck vs 60,000lb for an EV truck.

Since pavement damage increases with the square of weight, that's not a 50% increase in damage but significantly more...all for the same amount of cargo moved.

[valhalla360]

noteven wrote:
What % of fuel taxs collected goes directly to transportation infrastructure?

You can argue how effectively it's spent...but pretty much all gas tax goes to transportation infrastructure. It's one of the rare taxes where almost none is diverted.

[valhalla360]

NJRVer wrote:

So how much does a Tesla wear out and degrade the roads?

Passenger cars do negligible damage to pavement...but they cause the need for additional lanes and other features which eventually need to be renewed due to age as much as wear.

So yes, Teslas create just as much demand for roadways as standard passenger cars.

If you want to discuss passenger car (power plant doesn't matter) vs trucks, that's a different discussion.