Avion truck campers - Hundreds of photos

[67avion]

Without going into too much painful detail, we had a mishap several week-ends ago. While working with sand bag crews on the Mississippi River, the truck and camper fell into the flood waters as a road collapsed. Because of a number of issues dealing with the wrecker truck, we had to release the camper as the truck was reeled up over the bank. The good news is that the truck is as good as new after a thorough rinsing, inspection of brakes, etc. The bad news is that the camper was thoroughly drowned. A lot of people had far worse trouble than we did, so we consider ourselves lucky. The floods are ongoing as I write.

Our planned trip to Montana in June is called off. heh.

However, I have now convinced my dear Jane that its time to really update the TC. After drying for several days we pulled out the interior. Amazingly the Zolatone paint that I had applied last year is good as new after a cleaning.



Without burdening the TC family overmuch, I'd like to ask some advice other than don't park too near a flood :-).

My DW was overjoyed that I had a plan for the bathroom: a composting toilet developed by Nature's Head http://www.natureshead.net/. Our holding tank was practically unusable and there was no real grey water tank on the 67 Avion. Our plan is to rip out the bathroom and install one of these and converting the blackwater to a greywater tank. Any experience with this?

Finally, the roof. I admit that I have not really done the work I should have. Now, I need to remove the various sealants on the roof and repair it. We are also setting up for a solar installation. Any advice as to this?



Here's hoping I have posted the pictures correctly. And many thanks in advance for your advice.

[BlackFlagForge]

The quality of foam and it's application varies it seems from observing different users photos. The foam in the nose of my unit seems like it was poorly mixed or the end of the tanks. It's gritty and had smaller particles/formations. I'll snag some photos today.

[ticki2]

flyte63 wrote:
Thanks tickie and D1, it’s good to hear some verified weights. We’ve been using 3000lbs as our estimated ready to camp weight and it sounds like it might be fairly valid max working number for our C-10.

With the mention of old brochures I hunted through a 1965 one that came with our C-10, it states 1769lbs for the C-10 and 1640 for the 8 1/2 (unicorn). Our camper is an early one (#000045) with fiberglass insulation and not the foam insulation that is in most which may explain the slightly lower weight in the early brochure.

The idea that foam insulation can gain significant weight from leaks is pretty real. I used to race small one design sailboats with similar foam inside their hulls. We found that hulls could weigh between 120lbs and 180lbs, a 60lb difference in 14’ boats that came out of the same mold - and yes the heavy ones were always damp inside.

Well I learned something new . I thought all Avion TC' s had foam insulation . After some searching apparently in only started in the 66 model year for all Avions including trailers . There have been some question in the past by owners trying to determine whether there unit was a 65 or a 66 . It seems the type of insulation would answer the question . After 50 years I found the foam insulation in good condition , I would not hesitate to use it instead of fiber glass . What was used was reportedly urethane foam witch should not hold water ( closed cell ) .

[BlackFlagForge]

I'm curious how the old skin and walls held up without foam. I noticed so much more rigidity before I started cleaning mine out.

Never knew about the 8.5 AVION, very cool.

[flyte63]

Thanks tickie and D1, it’s good to hear some verified weights. We’ve been using 3000lbs as our estimated ready to camp weight and it sounds like it might be fairly valid max working number for our C-10.

With the mention of old brochures I hunted through a 1965 one that came with our C-10, it states 1769lbs for the C-10 and 1640 for the 8 1/2 (unicorn). Our camper is an early one (#000045) with fiberglass insulation and not the foam insulation that is in most which may explain the slightly lower weight in the early brochure.

The idea that foam insulation can gain significant weight from leaks is pretty real. I used to race small one design sailboats with similar foam inside their hulls. We found that hulls could weigh between 120lbs and 180lbs, a 60lb difference in 14’ boats that came out of the same mold - and yes the heavy ones were always damp inside.

[BlackFlagForge]

I've noticed my foam is holding water too! It's not a ton but as I remove different areas that had leaks I notice the seepage. Everything is weight creeping in. Hoping that modern closed cell wont be as prone to this issue.

[D1trout]

Flyte63, Argo, the all aluminum camper, which started life as a stock C-11, weighs 2000 pounds completely built out. This is a verified number from a truck scale near the shop.
The exterior shell, with the new aluminum frame completed, weighed 1000 pounds.
Then the completed interior, with all the cooking, living, electrics, bath, tanks, and so forth added another 1000 pounds. This is with a full propane tank at 9 gallons/30 pounds, but without the water tanks - 40+ gallons - full.
You can see pics of this rig in earlier posts. I believe it has come out very close to the original Avion weight. Wet plywood gets really heavy!
Hope this helps.

[BlackFlagForge]

Thanks Ticki, glad you're still around.

I think this is somehow my first post after registering in 2012 lol. Been following this thread for a long time and after 8 years of procrastination my 69 C11 rebuild is well underway. I'm just a mile or so from a Loves but my rig is empty at the moment. As soon as I've got things rebuilt I'll update a C11 dry weight with rebuilt woodwork: floor, wings and bed. I decided to go 1/2" all around ply/foam/ply so I'll be over standard weight for sure.

I'll start an imgur album in a bit and start trying to remember to upload.

[ticki2]

I have never weighed my C 11 for dry weight . My wet weight ready to camp includes 20 gal fresh water tank plus 14 gals in containers , 2 T125 6v batteries , Honda 2000ie , 3 camp chairs , equipment tub with extension cords ,hoses, etc. etc . , full fridge , other food , cloths , bedding , small hand tool box , 12v compressor plus personal items . Ready to camp weight is 3300# . The brochures I have list the dry weights of C 10 = 1800# , C11 = 2200#

[flyte63]

Have any of you fellow Avion C-10 or C-11 owners had your campers on scale to get an actual weight? Looking around the internet I see numbers ranging from 1800lbs to 3000lbs but it’s hard to know what’s real. Obviously there will differences between the 10’s and 11’s and dry vs. loaded with full tanks, but any verified numbers?

[ticki2]

D1trout , thanks for the info . Interestingly the schematic shows the ground to frame in the area you mentioned but only on the road side . I don't think I will be tearing the bathroom apart to find it LOL.

[flyte63]

I have not taken any interior skin off of ours either, have only pulled it back in the original 12v fuse box area. I have seen the ground stud for the 110v system. I replaced the 110v 30 amp Inlet and that stud was accessible when the old inlet was removed. I don’t believe that there was a 12v ground also wired to that same stud as Joe mentioned, but it’s possible.

[D1trout]

Ticki2, on Argo, there were two frame ground attachments, one on each side of the camper, bolted through the last rib of the shell, just before the final curved rear panel.
Each consisted of a bolt, perhaps 1/4” diameter, bolted thru the rib fore and aft, about 12” to 14” above the base of the rib at the floor. To this was attached a flat braided wire of the sort commonly seen on grounds. The end of that wire fed into the original wiring harness on both sides of the camper. When I replaced the wiring, I kept those frame grounds on each side, feeding my ground wire to the braided wire. I don’t recall how I attached those wires together. I also grounded the panels of breakers to the frame in the electrical control cabinet by attaching those wires to the aluminum frame of the cabinet. Plus I grounded the batteries at the main breaker. Remember that I’m an all aluminum frame so the ground is throughout the rig.
Hope this helps. If a pic would help, let me know. I’m away from my photo stash at the moment but might be able to get one next week.
Dick

[ticki2]

flyte63 wrote:
Hi ticki, I have not found a place where the outer skin or aluminum frame is specifically bonded to the 12v ground. However on my ‘65 the Ground Wire of the pigtail coming from the truck is wired to the 12v house White negative line inside the front wall below the old screw-in fuse box. While I was in there I added a new ground stud (bolt) to the aluminum frame next to where the pigtail comes in so that I have someplace good to ground to. I also added switch plate sized access panel In that area so I don’t have to pull the inside skin off to get at that area next time.

That's probably a smart idea . Since I couldn't find the original I added one . I was just curious where the
original was . I didn't have to take my Avion completely apart because it was in good condition , but I know others have had theirs stripped .

[JoeChiOhki]

Bedlam wrote:
I did not deal with any RV's that were metal framed with metal skin. All of mine had ground runs to a central point. Even the ones that had aluminum siding over wood did not attempt to use the skin as a return path. So your exterior is the only return path? I am sure you can fashion additional ground leads to the skin, but have taken a resistance reading between the skin and the negative side of the battery yet?

A number of brands in the mid-early 70s did the skin ground method of the clearance lights and tail lights (KIT, Dynacruiser, Conestoga to name a few lines I've helped folks diagnose ground issues on that all stemmed from that grounding link breaking or working loose over time).

Usually, there's a clamp block that a bare aluminum conductor connects into fastened to the skin and then tied into the ground wire bundle running inside the camper that connects back into the camper's pigtail connection.

Amerigo even did this, using the aluminum screw strip that ran around the perimeter of the roof to ground the clearance lights into, with a wire that ran back to the main loom.

It was a cost savings measure as it was all low voltage, and saved on the amount of wire needed to wire up a camper.

On several, they also tied that big ground connection into the 110volt safety ground to ensure that the RV's skin was earth grounded when the unit was plugged into shore power.

[Bedlam]

I did not deal with any RV's that were metal framed with metal skin. All of mine had ground runs to a central point. Even the ones that had aluminum siding over wood did not attempt to use the skin as a return path. So your exterior is the only return path? I am sure you can fashion additional ground leads to the skin, but have taken a resistance reading between the skin and the negative side of the battery yet?