Ford's answers to the NHTSA 6.7 Investigation

[ricatic]

There was a request for a link to Ford's answer's to the NHTSA investigation posted on a previous thread, since closed. Here is the link:

Ford's NHTSA Answers to the 6.7 investigation

This PDF is over 20 pages long. There are some interesting statements contained in the documents. My favorite is the one where Ford says they buy the pump from Bosch as a "black box" and do no testing of the component. It is closely followed by the tantamount admission that the pump will not provide a long service life when exposed to the poor lubricity fuel found in the US. You will have to do the math using the sales versus failure tables for the US and Canadian trucks. Eye opening difference to say the least...

Regards

[OldGreaser]

Ricatic, was your 50 gallon Titan tank an issue during the warranty denial? Just curious, as I am running a 65 gallon Titan. Thanks for your time.

[NewsW]

W4RLR wrote:
You cite the very reasons why, with the exception of a coolant filter, my truck with a 6.0 liter engine is bone stock.

The blue spring (factory mod kit) to raise fuel pressure is proven.

Another proven trick is to not turn off the engine right away after a long hard pull on a hot day, but to wait 1 or 2 minutes for the turbo and so on to cool down a bit.

Turbo drain back tube (improved via factory) is another good thing.

STC fitting mod (factory) is a good thing if you need it or your fitting shows signs of failure.

Update the flash is good.

If you haven't had the EGR valve cleaned since 2009, do so.

Never let biodiesel near it.

Have fun.

[W4RLR]

NewsW wrote:



The same bunch that promote:

- EGR delete
- "hot" FICM
- Tuners
- CCV vent to atmosphere

And many utterly useless at best, or damaging mods.

There is no connection in their mind between deleting the EGR and raising combustion temperature, which in turn, raises the cooling system load (not even talking of NOx), which in turn had to be corrected by the ECM by derating the engine (mild limp) which then cripples mileage and performance, that in turn, have to be "corrected" by a tuner which then spoofs the motor into power output way beyond the reliability zone (and legal emission zone), and in turn, more stresses on the cooling system, head gaskets, etc. which in turn need to be fixed by ARPs, which in turn has to be fixed by...

You cite the very reasons why, with the exception of a coolant filter, my truck with a 6.0 liter engine is bone stock.

[45Ricochet]

The rope is now replaced by kite string Turtle. Faster death falling. (except for the stubborn ones) And we all know dead men tell no tales :R
Oh yeah I forgot to mention "BUMP"

[jody_h]

All i have to say is at Ford Quality Is Job 1:B

[Flashman]

Turtle n Peeps wrote:

gmcsmoke wrote:

NewsW wrote:



First.

There is no cause for alarm.

The failure rate is in the low single digits (AFAIK) and there is no reason to think it is more --- until proven otherwise.

Funny two weeks and 2,000 posts ago the sky was falling, Bosch was going to drag Ford GM and Audi down with it and anyone was crazy if they even thought of buying something with a CP4. Now it's no big deal.

I was thinking the same thing? :h

NewsW wrote:
Sometimes, the wheels of honor take a long time to come around.

Has it ever came around for the owners of the 6.0 or 6.4? A lot of those owners are still twisting in the wind on the end of a Ford made rope. Seem to me 7,8,9 years is enough waiting.

NewsW - the ultimate Ford fanboy.

[Turtle_n_Peeps]

gmcsmoke wrote:

NewsW wrote:



First.

There is no cause for alarm.

The failure rate is in the low single digits (AFAIK) and there is no reason to think it is more --- until proven otherwise.

Funny two weeks and 2,000 posts ago the sky was falling, Bosch was going to drag Ford GM and Audi down with it and anyone was crazy if they even thought of buying something with a CP4. Now it's no big deal.

I was thinking the same thing? :h

NewsW wrote:
Sometimes, the wheels of honor take a long time to come around.

Has it ever came around for the owners of the 6.0 or 6.4? A lot of those owners are still twisting in the wind on the end of a Ford made rope. Seem to me 7,8,9 years is enough waiting.

[NewsW]

gmcsmoke wrote:

NewsW wrote:



First.

There is no cause for alarm.

The failure rate is in the low single digits (AFAIK) and there is no reason to think it is more --- until proven otherwise.

Funny two weeks and 2,000 posts ago the sky was falling, Bosch was going to drag Ford GM and Audi down with it and anyone was crazy if they even thought of buying something with a CP4. Now it's no big deal.

Show me a single post where I said anything beside what I am saying now?

All along I have made clear it is a problem affecting very small number of cases, amounting to low single digit percentage of the units in the field.

[gmcsmoke]

NewsW wrote:



First.

There is no cause for alarm.

The failure rate is in the low single digits (AFAIK) and there is no reason to think it is more --- until proven otherwise.

Funny two weeks and 2,000 posts ago the sky was falling, Bosch was going to drag Ford GM and Audi down with it and anyone was crazy if they even thought of buying something with a CP4. Now it's no big deal.

[NewsW]

Flashman wrote:


Does your coffee mug have a blue oval on it?

Actually, it has this bird on it with one leg holding some branches and the other holding some arrows.


Patience comes from a life long acquaintance with bureaucratic processes and how long it takes to do something, no matter how common sense it might seem.

Owners in this case ought to feel lucky they even got their 3 seconds of fame when other real pressing issues, like the 737 rudder problem took 2 crashes in the mid 1990s to late 2008 to resolve.

To this day, the manufacturer denied there was / is a problem.... but the suspect part did get redesigned.

[Flashman]

NewsW wrote:

ricatic wrote:


I am not as sure that Ford is honorable and willing to do the right thing. My personal interaction with them has shown them to be callous and disregarding of their customers $50,000 investment...and in our case...59 years of Ford loyalty

Regards

Sometimes, the wheels of honor take a long time to come around.

It was years before Ford figured out the Cruise Control Deact Switch Fires, and years more before they recalled the whole lot.

It doesn't do much for you left holding the bag in the mean time... but give it time.

Does your coffee mug have a blue oval on it?

[NewsW]

ricatic wrote:


I am not as sure that Ford is honorable and willing to do the right thing. My personal interaction with them has shown them to be callous and disregarding of their customers $50,000 investment...and in our case...59 years of Ford loyalty

Regards

Sometimes, the wheels of honor take a long time to come around.

It was years before Ford figured out the Cruise Control Deact Switch Fires, and years more before they recalled the whole lot.

It doesn't do much for you left holding the bag in the mean time... but give it time.

[ricatic]

OldGreaser wrote:
Hi Ricatic,

I just heard about this issue and have browsed through to page 44. Forgive me if you've already answered this, but how many miles were on your truck when the pump failed? Was there any warning? Also, do you happen to know the build date?

Full disclosure: I own a 2011 F350 6.7 and am towing a 5er. Mine has about 31k on it. I don't mind the perceived impact on my truck's value by your complaints-hollerin-vendetta-whatever. I appreciate what you are doing. Thank You!

As of today I will begin saving my fuel receipts. Do you have any other suggestions? Proactively service the filters perhaps?

OK, back to page 44 for me.....

35000 miles

1200 hours

No warning...just stopped like the key was switched off

I use the Ford PM22A fuel additive

I am not as sure that Ford is honorable and willing to do the right thing. My personal interaction with them has shown them to be callous and disregarding of their customers $50,000 investment...and in our case...59 years of Ford loyalty

Regards

[NewsW]

OldGreaser wrote:
Hi Ricatic,

I just heard about this issue and have browsed through to page 44. Forgive me if you've already answered this, but how many miles were on your truck when the pump failed? Was there any warning? Also, do you happen to know the build date?

Full disclosure: I own a 2011 F350 6.7 and am towing a 5er. Mine has about 31k on it. I don't mind the perceived impact on my truck's value by your complaints-hollerin-vendetta-whatever. I appreciate what you are doing. Thank You!

As of today I will begin saving my fuel receipts. Do you have any other suggestions? Proactively service the filters perhaps?

OK, back to page 44 for me.....

First.

There is no cause for alarm.

The failure rate is in the low single digits (AFAIK) and there is no reason to think it is more --- until proven otherwise.

We are auditing a set of cases that claim higher --- but it is not proven.


Rick will answer his direct experience --- but failures in other makes have come in at 30,000 mile range.



Suggestions:


- Definitely save all fuel receipts. Only buy branded fuel from branded retailers that WILL stand behind their diesel.

- Must have Comprehensive Insurance Coverage with modest deductible (e.g. $500)

- All maintenance MUST be up to date and only done with Ford OEM filters and oil and so on.

- Ford spec Diesel grade lubricating oil must be used.

- Update flash to latest version (that record Water in Fuel light activation).

- If Water in Fuel warning comes on, don't ignore it --- stop ASAP and drain water.

And immediately note who sold you fuel last.


- Do not buy / use Biodiesel. Or buy the lowest possible blend ratio if you have no choice.

- Use no additives EXCEPT FORD Branded additives Specifically approved for the 6.7


Otherwise, you are as good as anyone else --- don't lose sleep on the issue while we figure it out.


Ford is an honorable company, and when it is understood and can be plausibly confirmed that it is not customers fault, they will come around and do the right thing.

Hang in there.

There is no reason not to buy a brand new Ford or GM with this pump as long as the above precautions are taken.

However, I would be real careful of used ones -- especially ones who may have run unapproved fuel without anyone knowing.

[OldGreaser]

Hi Ricatic,

I just heard about this issue and have browsed through to page 44. Forgive me if you've already answered this, but how many miles were on your truck when the pump failed? Was there any warning? Also, do you happen to know the build date?

Full disclosure: I own a 2011 F350 6.7 and am towing a 5er. Mine has about 31k on it. I don't mind the perceived impact on my truck's value by your complaints-hollerin-vendetta-whatever. I appreciate what you are doing. Thank You!

As of today I will begin saving my fuel receipts. Do you have any other suggestions? Proactively service the filters perhaps?

OK, back to page 44 for me.....