Niagara Falls--over the border or toll roads

[j_sgypsybuggy]

Planning a trip from Minnesota to Niagara Falls. Good Sam routes us through Michigan, into Canada and then back into the U.S. Our concern is crossing the border with our trailer stocked full of food etc that we will need for our trip. The other route takes us through Indiana, Ohio, etc into New York from the south. That takes us on several toll roads. We've heard nightmares about them. We will be continuing onto Acadia National Park and Cape Breton Island so we will eventually have to cross the border. Any advice out there? Should we cross the border or shake things up on the toll roads? Any suggestions would be appreciated. Always appreciate your input.

[campigloo]

MAN. Visiting Canada, the east & west coasts, has been a life long dream of mine. We are planning a trip to Niagra, cross into Canada there, and reenter the US in Detroit. After these posts I am seriously reconsidering. With all the rules, special equipment required, foreign vehicle fees, multiple fines for the same things, it seems the Canadian government is actually hostile toward foreigners. Is this right or am I just reading too much into it?

[relaxin]

Sea Dog wrote:
Why do you not cross at Niagara or Buffalo
and visit one of the multitude of beautiful parks
available within a couple of hours drive?

I have never understood why anyone subjects
themselves to the weekend north bound madness!

most of the time I go west along 3 or up 6, I would never go north on a friday or return on a sunday, "death race" was a movie to watch but I have no intention of actually living in it.
I have found the best times to travel north is either at night (except friday or sunday) the 407 is so bare you would think its closed at between 2 and 4 am, and its the lowest rates, or after 9 am before 2 pm monday to thursday its not bare but traffic is lite and moves quick.
others may say different, but out of the dozen times I have used it (the ETR) those have been the best times that I have travelled it

[Sea_Dog]

Why do you not cross at Niagara or Buffalo
and visit one of the multitude of beautiful parks
available within a couple of hours drive?

I have never understood why anyone subjects
themselves to the weekend north bound madness!

[relaxin]

ShapeShifter wrote:

relaxin wrote:
if my recollection is correct I got charged about $20 to go from the QEW to the 400 with a trailer and no transponder. they initially tried to charge me a commercial rate of about $90, but a quick phone call got that lowered and a new bill sent.

What's your weight? I'm over 18,000 kg, which is well over the 5,000 kg limit for heavy vehicles that require a transponder. I fear I might have a harder time talking them down.

its actually under a buck a mile, was being sarcastic, (60 or 70 cents).

That's still pretty expensive! More than 10 times the cost of the local toll road.

as for the value for the dollar,,,,, if you ever been on a "401 camp out" thats where the stop and go is "stopped" far more than "go" and top speed at that is 20MPH( for maybe 500 feet at a time) and it takes an hour to travel a mere 6 or 7 miles,,,, the ETR is a small price for my sanity

Yes, I have "enjoyed" that camping experience once or twice in the couple dozen times I've taken it. :M To me, your $20 is questionable whether it's worth it to avoid that. But if it really does come down to $125, then no it's clearly not worth it, I'll go camping on the 401. 😉

Different strokes for different folks, good thing there's more than one route to choose from. :C

I have often said and prayed for someone to make an english channel version of a tunnel under lake ontario, from st catharines to somewhere around whitby and oshawa I would without hesitation cough up $200 to $300 to take that ride, it would turn 3 hours drive (in good traffic)into just over an hour ride. nice and relaxing take a nap maybe, save $50 worth of fuel or more, not worn down by the grotesque excuse for a city and the careless, reckless, inconsiderate drivers within by having to drive near it. (can you tell I dislike Toronto)
from there it would be easy to head north, another 1 to 3 hours can put me in any of a multitude of beautiful parks instead of 6 or 7 hours of driving

[super_camper]

j'sgypsybuggy wrote:
Planning a trip from Minnesota to Niagara Falls. Good Sam routes us through Michigan, into Canada and then back into the U.S. Our concern is crossing the border with our trailer stocked full of food etc that we will need for our trip. The other route takes us through Indiana, Ohio, etc into New York from the south. That takes us on several toll roads. We've heard nightmares about them. We will be continuing onto Acadia National Park and Cape Breton Island so we will eventually have to cross the border. Any advice out there? Should we cross the border or shake things up on the toll roads? Any suggestions would be appreciated. Always appreciate your input.

I cross the border a lot with the RV and will say the advice from some posters about food not being a problem is not good advice at all.

There are two issues I see with the Canadian route.

The first is the restrictions on alcohol, tobacco, and food (incl dog food) are usually enforced although not equally at the various crossings.

The second issue is the time to cross, unless you time it perfectly you may have a lengthy wait - I crossed at Queenston/Lewiston a few weeks ago and planned on a Sunday morning entry into the US - it took 2.5 hours to cross.

There is no way I would add two border crossings to avoid tolls. BTW, I90 thru Ohio&NY is a nice drive during the day, I would avoid it at night with the number of deer I see on the side of the road.

[atreis]

loulou57 wrote:

Atreis...you are right about the drive across the top it is beautiful. I am proud to say Ontario, especially going north is one of the most beautiful places in North America

x2, but let's not overstate it ... Too many people would spoil it!

[loulou57]

All the talk about our 407 rates or any rates, actual time saved is a huge factor as well as the conditions of the roads.

We use the 407 quite often and have no issues paying the fee.

It doesn't matter what side of the border you are on road conditions can be deadly at times on your vehicle. I agree with an earlier post that the roads through Detroit are in tough shape. There has been quite a bit of construction on the QEW but road conditions here are very good.

Atreis...you are right about the drive across the top it is beautiful. I am proud to say Ontario, especially going north is one of the most beautiful places in North America

[atreis]

Personally, I'd go over the border - there are few large cities north of Lake Erie, where the same can't be said for south of it. It'd make for a more pleasant drive.

Better yet - it'd make the drive a bit longer, but cross at Sault Saint Marie and go above Lake Huron, then down. VERY pretty drive.

In terms of the ETR - the OP doesn't mention how heavy their trailer is. My rig escapes the high fees - they might too, depending on what they have.

[ShapeShifter]

relaxin wrote:
if my recollection is correct I got charged about $20 to go from the QEW to the 400 with a trailer and no transponder. they initially tried to charge me a commercial rate of about $90, but a quick phone call got that lowered and a new bill sent.

What's your weight? I'm over 18,000 kg, which is well over the 5,000 kg limit for heavy vehicles that require a transponder. I fear I might have a harder time talking them down.

its actually under a buck a mile, was being sarcastic, (60 or 70 cents).

That's still pretty expensive! More than 10 times the cost of the local toll road.

as for the value for the dollar,,,,, if you ever been on a "401 camp out" thats where the stop and go is "stopped" far more than "go" and top speed at that is 20MPH( for maybe 500 feet at a time) and it takes an hour to travel a mere 6 or 7 miles,,,, the ETR is a small price for my sanity

Yes, I have "enjoyed" that camping experience once or twice in the couple dozen times I've taken it. :M To me, your $20 is questionable whether it's worth it to avoid that. But if it really does come down to $125, then no it's clearly not worth it, I'll go camping on the 401. 😉

Different strokes for different folks, good thing there's more than one route to choose from. :C

[relaxin]

ShapeShifter wrote:

relaxin wrote:
what,,, ours ain't that high at about a buck a mile its charged by distance traveled.

You don't think a buck a mile is expensive? :?

I thought I-90 through NY was expensive, and it works out to a bit less than 5 cents per mile for the section I take most often.

I just double checked the ETR rates, and I guess my recollection was off by an order of magnitude:



So $125 over 107 km works out to about $1.88 per mile. No thanks, I'll take my chances with the traffic on the 401.

And there is a caveat on the website:

IMPORTANT: Heavy vehicles (over 5,000 kg) must be equipped with a valid transponder.
If you choose to use 407 ETR without a valid transponder, you will be subject to video toll charge plus tolls per trip and you may be stopped by the Ontario Provincial Police and/or Ministry of Transportation Enforcement Officers, and fined.

I'm not about to pay for a transponder for the VERY limited use I would have for the road, so I wonder what that fine could potentially be? And in the past I thought I saw an extra fee for foreign vehicles.

Normally, while I try to skip toll roads when practical, I'm not adverse to using them where they are advantageous (for example, while I-86 might be shorter for me to get to some destinations, there's no way I'll take that road again; I'll go the extra distance to I-90 and pay the toll.) But, at least for foreigners, there simply isn't enough of an advantage for me to consider taking the ETR.

its actually under a buck a mile, was being sarcastic, (60 or 70 cents). if my recollection is correct I got charged about $20 to go from the QEW to the 400 with a trailer and no transponder. they initially tried to charge me a commercial rate of about $90, but a quick phone call got that lowered and a new bill sent.
I have no need for a transponder either traveling it twice in a year maybe, apparently if you call ahead and give your vehicle plate # they enter it in the system somehow so as not to mistakenly over charge, I had my old truck plates in the system and was correctly charged each time, but with a new truck came new plates and it was not in the system as a passenger or recreational vehicle

as for the value for the dollar,,,,, if you ever been on a "401 camp out" thats where the stop and go is "stopped" far more than "go" and top speed at that is 20MPH( for maybe 500 feet at a time) and it takes an hour to travel a mere 6 or 7 miles,,,, the ETR is a small price for my sanity, with all the ,,,,,, to use a nice word,,, very lousy drivers in the GTA, inconsiderate texting phone chatting not watching got to get there first J offs there's a reason its known as one of the deadliest hwys in north america

[jmckelvy]

ShapeShifter wrote:
....In NY, US 20 parallels I-90 for much of the way. It can be a pleasant drive through the country in many spots, but be prepared for lots of small towns, reduced speed limits, and some areas of congestion. I would not recommend I-86 to anyone, especially an RVer.

Agreed.

Last year we visited Nova Scotia. On our way up we visited relatives in Erie, PA. When we left Erie we followed US 20 thru NY to the Niagara Falls area. Really enjoyed the drive. We try to stay off interstates and particularly those with tolls. The only tolls we paid were at a couple of bridges in the Niagara area, which were very reasonable.

[ShapeShifter]

jmckelvy wrote:
So don't take any toll roads. There are other roads.

In NY, US 20 parallels I-90 for much of the way. It can be a pleasant drive through the country in many spots, but be prepared for lots of small towns, reduced speed limits, and some areas of congestion. I would not recommend I-86 to anyone, especially an RVer.

[ShapeShifter]

relaxin wrote:
what,,, ours ain't that high at about a buck a mile its charged by distance traveled.

You don't think a buck a mile is expensive? :?

I thought I-90 through NY was expensive, and it works out to a bit less than 5 cents per mile for the section I take most often.

I just double checked the ETR rates, and I guess my recollection was off by an order of magnitude:



So $125 over 107 km works out to about $1.88 per mile. No thanks, I'll take my chances with the traffic on the 401.

And there is a caveat on the website:

IMPORTANT: Heavy vehicles (over 5,000 kg) must be equipped with a valid transponder.
If you choose to use 407 ETR without a valid transponder, you will be subject to video toll charge plus tolls per trip and you may be stopped by the Ontario Provincial Police and/or Ministry of Transportation Enforcement Officers, and fined.

I'm not about to pay for a transponder for the VERY limited use I would have for the road, so I wonder what that fine could potentially be? And in the past I thought I saw an extra fee for foreign vehicles.

Normally, while I try to skip toll roads when practical, I'm not adverse to using them where they are advantageous (for example, while I-86 might be shorter for me to get to some destinations, there's no way I'll take that road again; I'll go the extra distance to I-90 and pay the toll.) But, at least for foreigners, there simply isn't enough of an advantage for me to consider taking the ETR.

[dieharder]

You're going to face tolls when you cross the border too. Some of the foods you carry might face scrutiny when crossing the border. Best read up on some of the restrictions, or just travel with the minimum you can and buy what you need as you get closer to the destination. There are grocery stores everywhere.

Some will ask the pointed question about citrus and the like, where you'd have to answer YES if you have any. Some will just ask the general "Do you have anything to declare?" which you will be responsible to know ahead of time what items you'll need to declare, like citrus if you have any.

Also, if you have alcohol, smokes and/or other items which face restrictions on the amount you can cross the border with, don't assume that they'll take your word that you're just passing through to return to the US. If you're bringing in more than what's allowed, they'll probably ding you for it.

[jmckelvy]

j'sgypsybuggy wrote:
.....The concern is with crossing the border loaded with food, alcohol etc or taking toll roads which sound terrible. We've never driven on toll roads so really don't know how bad they are.

So don't take any toll roads. There are other roads.