New NPS campground planning doc. Comments called for.

[agesilaus]

(I posted this on a couple for different forums for max visibility)

NPS is about to adopt a new campground design document. They are asking for comments by campers. It is 150 pages long but is written in plain english for the most part and you can skip a lot of sections that do not apply to your camping style. I went thru it in maybe 30 minutes. The one issue I noted was that they show truck length as 10 feet in one place and that they inconsistently show desired campsite depth as 45 ft in one place but a better 75 ft in another. And they have parking lot depth as 20 ft which is a bit short for my 23 ft truck. But basically it looks reasonable.

The comment period ends DECEMBER FOURTH so don't delay. This is your chance to comment tho so take a look: Park Planning

[agesilaus]

One issue I brought up was putting a campsite in the inside of a curve whaich can make getting into it tough. And placing campsites directly across the road from each other. I'm surre we've all seen those campsites with three big p/u and a couple of boats on trailers lining the road outside some guys site.

[agesilaus]

My experience is when the government calls for comments the issue is already decided and they are just fulfilling a statutory requirement,

That's probably true a lot of times especially if there is an opposition NIMBY group which folks think are just trying to stop some development that most people support.

But this is different, they are asking for suggestions to improve the plan not oppose it. So maybe they will take these comments into account.

[wapiticountry]

My experience is when the government calls for comments the issue is already decided and they are just fulfilling a statutory requirement, not actually looking for input. I have gone to a few public comment meetings where there was a followup presentation a couple of weeks later. The summary results given at the followup meetings had no resemblance to the questions and comments at the earlier meetings. It was as if the first comment session never happened. The train is already on the tracks and up to speed when public comments are requested. Your comments won't change where those tracks go.

[RoyF]

OK, I measured the turning radius for my F350 long-bed crew-cab. In the document, the turning radius of a curve was shown as the inside radius, so I looked at the inside track of the front tires with steering at full lock. The radius was 24 feet. The track of the rear tires followed a tighter curve, 4.5 feet inside the track of the front tires.

That means it is possible for my truck to follow a curve having a radius of 24 feet provided there is an additional 4.5 feet of pavement on the inside at mid-curve for the rear tires.

The trailer tires will track further inside, but I don't have any numbers.

So it seems that a curve of radius 50 feet is actually not so tight. For that curve, my truck's rear tires will track closer to the front tires -- maybe about 1 foot inside? I still would like to know how much additional pavement is needed inside the front tire's track to handle the trailer tires.

That is something we have to guess at every time we make a tight turn at a street intersection and try to miss the curb with our trailer tires.

[agesilaus]

RoyF wrote:
Thank you for calling this to our attention.

The 10-foot truck-length refers (I think) to how far the truck extends beyond the trailer. For my crew-cab long bed, that length is 17 feet. (I just checked.) The question is: what is the turning radius? The document uses 50 feet for the turning radius of a fifth-wheel/truck with (combined) length of 50 feet. That figure applies to curves on access roads.

I have never measured my turning radius, but I am going to do so.

Turning radius is even worse for TT than a fiver.

[profdant139]

Thanks for posting this -- well done!

[Lwiddis]

Thank you for posting.

“While iron rangers have a long tradition of use in parks, shifting away from the use of iron rangers and towards digital methods of fee collection is superior.” I’ll miss these guys! lol

[RoyF]

Thank you for calling this to our attention.

The 10-foot truck-length refers (I think) to how far the truck extends beyond the trailer. For my crew-cab long bed, that length is 17 feet. (I just checked.) The question is: what is the turning radius? The document uses 50 feet for the turning radius of a fifth-wheel/truck with (combined) length of 50 feet. That figure applies to curves on access roads.

I have never measured my turning radius, but I am going to do so.