Six month limit for northerners?

[trailerbikecamp]

Me and DW were having a conversation the other day about a siz month time limit for Canadians spending time in US. She thinks that Canadians can only spend a max of six months south of the border, then have to come home for six months.

I think that the time outside US does not need to be that long.

This is for Canadians spending the winters down south, not for those working or attending school.

Does anyone out there have accurate info on this? How are these laws worded?

[MudChucker]

MudChucker wrote:
New info for Canadian snow birds. Entry exit agreement

the info I posted came from the page in the link which is Canadian law, I never referenced American IRS bits, there may very well be more that a person can, or must to do.

[pawatt]

PackerBacker is correct, most of our Canadian friends stay 6 months or nearly 6 months. Most have been coming south for years.

[Community Alumni]

moisheh wrote:
Packer backer: Are you confusing the Immigration rules with IRS rules??

Moishehu

No I'm not confusing the two. The IRS is the entity that requires completion of the 8840 form with the three year calculation. They do the determination whether or not you would be subject to US taxation requirements. They also acknowledge that you can be a non-resident alien for up to 182 days per calendar year and not be subject to taxable income if they determine that you do not have a closer connection to the US.

There is a bunch of criteria the must be met to be declared as a closer connection to the US. Things like US income, permanent residences, owning packages of us real estate etc... can all be items that might be considered.

Currently US Immigration ALSO have a 6 month limit to be in the US within a calendar year. They are trying to extend that to 8 months however the IRS are not on broad. The end result perhaps down the road sometime might well be that you can spend 8 months per year in the US but you would likely have to pay income tax for all or a portion of that time.

My last meeting with the folks at US Immigration was in the spring and the above is how it was explained to me.

I used to Iive and work on both sides of the border with a US work visa and so I got to be extremely familiar with the rules and regulations.

... Eric

[John___Angela]

moisheh wrote:
Packer backer: Are you confusing the Immigration rules with IRS rules??

Moishehu

Very, VERY common mistake. IRS doesn't care how long you are in the country and . All they care about are the tax rules. Now the immigration guys...thats a different story. 🙂

[moisheh]

Packer backer: Are you confusing the Immigration rules with IRS rules??

Moishehu

[cruiserjs]

MudChucker wrote:
The commonmisconception is that Canadians regularly travelling to the U.S. for long stays can spend up to 182 days, or six months, in the U.S without being considered a resident for tax purposes. for people travelling to the U.S. for long stays year after year, it's actually 120 days, or four months, averaged using a special formula over a period of three years.

No - read the rules instead poof believing just anyone. File the form 8840 (and rules for that) . If you don't file - then 120 is right (IMHO).

[Community Alumni]

joebedford wrote:

MudChucker wrote:
The commonmisconception is that Canadians regularly travelling to the U.S. for long stays can spend up to 182 days, or six months, in the U.S without being considered a resident for tax purposes. for people travelling to the U.S. for long stays year after year, it's actually 120 days, or four months, averaged using a special formula over a period of three years.

If you average over 120 days, you are required to file a form 8840 to show a closer connection to Canada. Then you are NOT "considered a resident for tax purposes".

Correct. You are actually allowed to be in the US for up to 182 days per calendar year (year after year) provided you have completed the 8840 declaration. There are thousands of snowbirds who are doing this and staying in the US legally for up to 6 months.

[joebedford]

MudChucker wrote:
The commonmisconception is that Canadians regularly travelling to the U.S. for long stays can spend up to 182 days, or six months, in the U.S without being considered a resident for tax purposes. for people travelling to the U.S. for long stays year after year, it's actually 120 days, or four months, averaged using a special formula over a period of three years.

If you average over 120 days, you are required to file a form 8840 to show a closer connection to Canada. Then you are NOT "considered a resident for tax purposes".

[MudChucker]

New info for Canadian snow birds. Entry exit agreement

[MudChucker]

The commonmisconception is that Canadians regularly travelling to the U.S. for long stays can spend up to 182 days, or six months, in the U.S without being considered a resident for tax purposes. for people travelling to the U.S. for long stays year after year, it's actually 120 days, or four months, averaged using a special formula over a period of three years.

[joebedford]

By the way, the reason you may lose your health coverage if you stay out of your province (not necessarily out of the country) too long is because you lose your residency.

Guess what else you lose: your driver's licence.

[luckyd]

As stated above...Form 8840 must be filed every year.

The USA has TWO factions....Homeland Security and Taxation.

Homeland security only allows Canadians into the States for a
max. of 183 days in a calendar year.
If you go to Mexico during that time you need to be out of States for
30 days otherwise the time keeps on counting.
Taxation requires you to fill out 8840 and enter the number of days for
the last three years you spend in the States. This shows a closer tie to Canada.
If you do not fill out this form you can be subjected to only being allowed 120 days per year in the USA.

Each Province has their own regulations about health care. Most now require you to be in your home province for 5 months.
BC allows you to apply for a "two year out of province" once every five years.
You cannot add this to the seven months out. It must be included. This would allow you to travel to other countries. It does not change the 183 day restriction to the USA.

The Canadian Snowbird Assoc. has been trying to get the time increased to
240 days. This would be done under an application for a Canadian Retirement Visa. So far....no luck.


Oh....by the way....US citizens are only allowed in Canada for the 183 days
per year also. This is a reciprocal agreement.

[FULLTIMEWANABE]

Holy guacamole. There is so much misinformation here in this thread. Go to the OFFICIAL government information, print it off, read it and and keep it in your "border crossing file". Above all remember "it is ALWAYS at the discretion of the border agent as to how long you are granted to stay in the USA on any one trip. Also be cognizant of the "substantial presence test' plus "closer connection to Canada", and if you are spending year after year as many do up to the 182/183 days per year complete this form and keep a copy with you as well for all previous years when crossing the USA border to present as additional proof, coupled with bank statements, proof of residency in Canada such as utility bills, title of property or rental agreement as well as the usual vehicle registration documents/insurance etc.

In over 20 years of crossing the border we haven't had any issues whatsoever, but "one day" we may, so we keep these documents to hand in the RV with us.

Folks we strongly advocate you do your own Due Diligence through the official resources that are what really matter. We personally know of folks that overstayed their time in the USA, by just a few days, and took over 10 years to be given permission to be able to enter again. We are also aware of folks that haven't adhered to the rules and ended up completing forms after forms after forms and hiring accountants etc to be able to gain entry again to the USA for "unpaid taxes" = their is a reciprocal arrangement to avoid double taxation in both countries. Like I said do your own DD through officialdom, no other sources!!!

From their website:

Substantial Presence Test

You will be considered a U.S. resident for tax purposes if you meet the substantial presence test for calendar year 2015. To meet this test, you must be physically present in the United States on at least:

31 days during 2015, and

183 days during the 3-year period that includes 2015, 2014, and 2013, counting:

All the days you were present in 2015, and

1/3 of the days you were present in 2014, and

1/6 of the days you were present in 2013.

Example.

You were physically present in the United States on 120 days in each of the years 2013, 2014, and 2015. To determine if you meet the substantial presence test for 2015, count the full 120 days of presence in 2015, 40 days in 2014 (1/3 of 120), and 20 days in 2013 (1/6 of 120). Because the total for the 3-year period is 180 days, you are not considered a resident under the substantial presence test for 2015.

The term United States includes the following areas.

All 50 states and the District of Columbia.

The territorial waters of the United States.

The seabed and subsoil of those submarine areas that are adjacent to U.S. territorial waters and over which the United States has exclusive rights under international law to explore and exploit natural resources.

The term does not include U.S. possessions and territories or U.S. airspace.

Days of Presence in the United States

You are treated as present in the United States on any day you are physically present in the country at any time during the day. However, there are exceptions to this rule. Do not count the following as days of presence in the United States for the substantial presence test.

Days you commute to work in the United States from a residence in Canada or Mexico if you regularly commute from Canada or Mexico.

Days you are in the United States for less than 24 hours when you are in transit between two places outside the United States.

Days you are in the United States as a crew member of a foreign vessel.

Days you are unable to leave the United States because of a medical condition that arose while you are in the United States.

Days you are an exempt individual.

Closer Connection to a Foreign Country

Even if you meet the substantial presence test, you can be treated as a nonresident alien if you:

Are present in the United States for less than 183 days during the year,

Maintain a tax home in a foreign country during the year, and

Have a closer connection during the year to one foreign country in which you have a tax home than to the United States

Personally we now complete Form 8840 and carry a copy with us each year also:

Form 8840. You must attach a fully completed Form 8840 to your income tax return to claim you have a closer connection to a foreign country or countries.

If You Do Not Have To File A Return, send the form to the Department of the Treasury, Internal Revenue Service Center, Austin, TX 73301-0215, by the due date for filing Form 1040NR or Form 1040NR-EZ. The due date for filing is discussed later in chapter 7.

If you do not timely file Form 8840, you cannot claim a closer connection to a foreign country or countries. This does not apply if you can show by clear and convincing evidence that you took reasonable actions to become aware of the filing requirements and significant steps to comply with those requirements.

[Tequila]

If you go south very year its actually a 4 month maximum. I winter in mexico so it does not affect me, but you have to be careful of the US. if you live on the border, every trip across the line for gas, counts as a day

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/british-columbia/canadians-regularly-going-to-u-s-for-long-stays-need-...