Some questions on National Park sites

[Acei]

My DW and I would like to start full-timing in the future. We expect to do lots of hiking during the day and some work during the evening/night. We MUCH prefer to camp in less open spaces that feature its own picnic tables and fire pits. We are not really interested in RV parks in an open area full of RVs that look like parking lots. My DW loves burning firewood in private sites. Our plan is to visit all National Parks and sleep within the parks, even if there are no hookups. I do understand that most of the sites are built long time ago and are not RV friendly.

I went to the top 10 most popular National Park websites and found out that they have certain thresh holds on the RV lengths - at 25ft, 30ft, 35ft then 40ft+. Hence, I am making an assumption that by staying below 25ft, I'm opening myself with many options.

Given this, which setup would be most friendly for our desired plan?

- 1T SRW truck pulling a 25ft FW
- 25ft B+ pulling a 20ft trailer
- 35ft Class A MH pulling a crossover vehicle

Remember, privacy is high up on our priority list. Do they let any of the above setup camp on sites that are designed for tent camping with decent privacy?

Your feedback are much appreciated from those who are experienced in camping at National Parks!

[doxiemom11]

The national forest website also list many dispersed camping sites. As an example there are around 50 such sites in MS and they have photos of about 9 of them online. The ones shown are private and very large. A motorhome of any size with a tow would fit easily, so it all depends on the area I guess. In some forest areas, you can camp anywhere that there is not an established campground, such as in the Talladega National Forest in Alabama. Many of those forest roads you would want a pickup camper to navigate and if it's rained, you may want a 4X4 at that.

[rexlion]

Sometimes there's room in a campsite to park a vehicle next to a trailer, and sometimes not.

When I started camping, my mental picture was of a campsite with a screen of foliage on 3 sides plus across the road. Rarely are campsites truly like this, and at first it really bothered me. I felt like I'd left the city only to find myself in another (transient) city of RVers. Over time my discomfort lessened and I can relax and enjoy nature along with people-watching and even a bit of socializing with my new 'neighbors'.

If you really want to get away from it all and have true privacy, dispersed camping (boondocking) is for you. You can find some really quiet, lonesome places to stay. But for that, 4 wheel drive can be mighty handy. A good 4WD pickup will do the trick, or in the motor home arena take a look at the Tiger 4x4.

Be aware that with a motor home or class B, you'll have to put away everything you have out on the counters and unplug from any utilities every time you want to go anywhere -- a trip into town for supplies, a short sightseeing jaunt, anything. With a trailer or truck camper, your 'home' can stay put while you zip around in your truck. Also, if a MH or B needs mechanical work, you may be out of house and home while it's in the shop; if a pickup needs work, your 5'er or TC can still be lived in while the truck's in the shop.

About length: my first TT was a 23' with slideout. Since then I keep getting smaller and smaller trailers because (a) I've learned how little stuff I need to have along, and (b) there were some rustic CGs I wanted to stay in but couldn't fit the 23' TT into. Just some thoughts.

[fanrgs]

Just to provide a little more help for you, I went on "recreation.gov" and looked up "Glacier National Park" and "St. Mary's Campground" in Montana. I found a number of sites that said the maximum length RV was 35 feet, but the overall driveway length was considerably more. Just as one example, here are the data for the first site I clicked on in the "site list"--Site C154:

•Site Type: STANDARD NONELECTRIC
•Site Reserve Type: Site-Specific
•Site Access: Drive-In
•Type of Use: Overnight
•Max Num of People: 8
•Pets Allowed: Domestic
•Max Num of Vehicles: 2
•Driveway Surface: Gravel
•Driveway Entry: Pull-Through
•Driveway Length: 55
•Max Vehicle Length: 35
•Site Length: 22
•Site Width: 40
•Capacity/Size Rating: Single
•Fire Pit: Y

The site listing has two photos attached and looks to have vegetation between it and the sites on both sides, plus some shade from trees. Combined with the 40-foot site width, the vegetation should provide some privacy. And this site has a 55-foot long driveway, i.e., it can easily accommodate a 30-foot fifth wheel trailer and a 3/4-ton pickup.

You can do this same search yourself in a matter of minutes for any US National Park you are interested in visiting.

We have a 21'9" travel trailer and have camped in it for a total of 7 months over the past 2.5 years. It got very small in the latter stages of our 3-month trip to Alaska in 2013, so we are currently selling it and ordering a 27-foot fifth wheel. We limited the length of the fifth wheel so that the total length of our truck and new trailer would be little more than with our current trailer. That way we can still fit into most of the shorter (40-foot driveway length), back-in RV sites that we have preferred with our current trailer.

BTW, back-in sites sometimes have more privacy than pull-thrus. That's why most long-term and seasonal residents of many of the RV parks we have visited fill up all the back-in spaces first. So, if you have to have maximum privacy, you want to buy an RV that you can easily back into RV spaces.

[monkey44]

I've full-timed for nearly three years in a Truck camper, alone. Then another year with my S/O ... and we now have a TH base home we're selling, and will go back on the road again with the TC.

We both "work" on the road, but are free-lance, not an employer. We still have enough room to carry out "stuff", computers etc. And we switch off between sites with HU and sites with NO HU ... we carry our own Hotspot, so do not depend on WIFI in campgrounds.

We have no need to a double-rig, that is truck and trailer, or a MH towing ... we drop the TC when we need just the truck. It works very well for us and we've done the state parks / national parks / COE plenty of times. And we do not carry a generator. We get enough HU sites that we can charge all, and a TC charging systems that charges our computer and cells, etc...

About once a month, we treat ourselves to a Hotel, looooooong shower, a movie and out to dinner.

[tonyandkaren]

We love fulltiming in our 25' class C. Because it's small we fit in almost any campsite and it easy to drive on narrow rural roads. We rarely stay in RV parks or have any type of hookups. It's perfect for our style of RVing but many other fulltimers would hate it so I'd suggest visiting a dealer, looking at all of the choices and seeing how small you can go without being cramped and uncomfortable.

As other posters have stated national park campgrounds are not very private but given a choice we always stay in them. They're still much better than parking lot RV parks and the scenery in usually gorgeous.

National forest campground are usually fairly private. State parks may be private too but there are no hard and fast rules so some are private, some not.

Check these sites for national forest info:

http://www.forestcamping.com/

http://www.fs.fed.us/locatormap/

[jmtandem]

My DW and I would like to start full-timing in the future. We expect to do lots of hiking during the day and some work during the evening/night. We MUCH prefer to camp in less open spaces that feature its own picnic tables and fire pits.

Fulltiming is not the same as recreational camping. You will have all your life with you, no home to go back to, need to work perhaps, and will want to stay longer in places than the typical recreational RVer. That said if your priority is to be able to put the RV in the most maneuverable places, tightest spaces, etc. then get the one ton and get a cabover camper or a B van. You will be giving up interior space for maneuverability. If, however, you want to have space inside then the trade-off is size and resulting manueverability. Most national parks in the US have limits on stay. Most RV parks have monthly rates that are very favorable compared to national park daily rates. Most full timers like the amenities of being able to hook up the sewer, water and electricity. Most national parks might have a shared water spigot and none of the other items. In a national park you will be camping next to recreational campers and in some ways it is a release for them from their daily city lives. That means some crowding, noise, lots of activity, pets, etc. Most RV parks that cater to full timers are typically less busy. Some folks absolutley have to camp inside the park or they are missing out on the park's ambiance. Many national parks still require a drive or bus trip to see all the features. So, camping outside a park in a less busy and possibly larger campground that requires driving to the park a few miles away is not all that different than staying inside if 'inside' is not the absolute requirement for camping for you. You still can do all the hiking and biking you want or could do inside the park, just doing it from a different base camp. If your part time work requires internet, that might be an issue in some national parks as well.

[kohldad]

A quick question - aren't sites designed to hold a tent or two plus a car? I was expecting them to accommodate a trailer and the tow vehicle side by side...

A lot of tent only sites have room to park a vehicle only. The spot for the tent is separate from the parking location, usually a few feet away, sometime a couple hundred feet away.

Boondocking is really the way to go for complete isolation. Some place like this boondock spot in Francis Marion NF in SC where the closest other person camping or living was several miles away?



or maybe like this mountain top near Cumberland Gap NP in the Wilderness Off Road Park where I couldn't see a single street light at night and the closest other person was over a mile away?



And once you get west of the rockies, it gets so much easier to sneak away from it all.

[fanrgs]

Just go to the "Recreation.gov" Website to view campsite lengths for any National Park campgrounds you might be interested in visiting. That will give you a feel for how many sites in each campground can take a 25-foot vs. a 30-foot RV of any kind.

At many campgrounds, the Website will also give you photos of each site so that you can see how much vegetation is around the site and about how much privacy you can expect to find. And the site descriptions may also say "shade", "partial shade", "limited privacy", or some other hints at what you will encounter.

You can also check out the "Reserve America" Website to look at descriptions, lengths, and photos of State Park campgrounds for many states. However, not all states are on it, as some have their own Websites and do not want to pay a fee to use Reserve America.

[jmtandem]

I'm not familiar with NF and other places mentioned above. Do they offer larger sites with some privacy? Can they accommodate say, 30ft FW more reasonably?

There are a few old campgrounds in the western portion of the United States that might not be able to easily accommodate a 30 foot fifthwheel. And as others have indicated outside the structured national parks the campsites are often larger. For full timing interior size may not be everything but it certainly is a huge consideration. Every place I have been will let you in if you can get the trailer or fifth into the site even though it might say size limited to 30 feet or so. I have not been to every place but so far have not found one that would not let me camp based on a number on the side of the RV.

[Acei]

Thanks for more info, guys.

I'm not familiar with NF and other places mentioned above. Do they offer larger sites with some privacy? Can they accommodate say, 30ft FW more reasonably?

[dewey02]

I just want to reinforce what some others have said.
I do not believe you will find privacy or relatively uncrowded conditions at most national parks. Many of the campgrounds I have seen tend to have the camping spur or pull through very close to the campground loop road, with really not a lot of vegetation in between sites. And unless you camp in the very edges of the shoulder seasons (real early in spring, or real late in fall) you can expect crowds of campers that sometimes are not too considerate of anyone but themselves.

That said, here is the good news. Many National Parks are surrounded by other federal and state lands. National Forest, BLM, National Grasslands, State Parks, etc. Often, they have campgrounds that are fairly near the national park and their campgrounds offer much more solitude - more vegetation, far fewer crowds, etc. That may be your best choice for privacy and solitude, with day trips into the national park. And yes, the shorter you are, the more places you can fit into.

[jmtandem]

My vote......get the one ton truck and a 30 foot fifth wheel. Five feet or so of the fifth is over the truck bed so the overall length of the truck and fifth should be more than manageable in virtually every place you want to go and inside you will have a little more room.

[Acei]

dahkota wrote:
With a 25' fw, you will need at least a 25' space. With a 25' B +20' trailer, you will need at least a 45' space. With a 35' A, you will need at least a 35' space.

As a general rule, the space in NPs are larger than the space in private campgrounds. But, there are exceptions. Even larger than most national parks are sites in State Parks, COEs, and Forest Service and BLM sites. But, it is not always the case. There are too many variations to answer you easily.

As a example, last week we spent a week in Smoky Mountain National Park. We were parked in two different sites within the same campground. Our first site was smaller than our second but had a lot more privacy due to trees and bushes. Our second site, larger in square footage, was open on all sides to other sites near us. Both sites were about 6X larger than the private campground site we stayed at immediately after. We are now in a state park with extremely large sites (20X a private campground site) but only semi-private due to the lack of bushes on the road side. But, there are only about 10 other campers here in an 80 site campground. Our 34' class A fit in all the spaces with no problem.

If you want to look at photos of actual campsites just to get an idea, try campsitephotos.com. They have hundreds of campgrounds, many national parks, forest service sites, state parks, etc.

Thanks for the info, will look into them.

A quick question - aren't sites designed to hold a tent or two plus a car? I was expecting them to accommodate a trailer and the tow vehicle side by side...

[dahkota]

With a 25' fw, you will need at least a 25' space. With a 25' B +20' trailer, you will need at least a 45' space. With a 35' A, you will need at least a 35' space.

As a general rule, the space in NPs are larger than the space in private campgrounds. But, there are exceptions. Even larger than most national parks are sites in State Parks, COEs, and Forest Service and BLM sites. But, it is not always the case. There are too many variations to answer you easily.

As a example, last week we spent a week in Smoky Mountain National Park. We were parked in two different sites within the same campground. Our first site was smaller than our second but had a lot more privacy due to trees and bushes. Our second site, larger in square footage, was open on all sides to other sites near us. Both sites were about 6X larger than the private campground site we stayed at immediately after. We are now in a state park with extremely large sites (20X a private campground site) but only semi-private due to the lack of bushes on the road side. But, there are only about 10 other campers here in an 80 site campground. Our 34' class A fit in all the spaces with no problem.

If you want to look at photos of actual campsites just to get an idea, try campsitephotos.com. They have hundreds of campgrounds, many national parks, forest service sites, state parks, etc.