State Parks

[flathead92]

So BC ( before Covid) we didnt have to much of an issue getting res at AZ state parks. Now there like 6-8 months out. When we do get a res, and are there we see open spots everywhere, lots with names on posts BUT peeps never show. I SAY SCAM

[goducks10]

Lantley wrote:

austinjenna wrote:
One of the things that the Ohio state parks did in regards to people booking the entire week and then going in to modify their reservation just to get the weekend, was that they no longer allow any reservation changes. If you cancel the reservation it cancels the entire reservation. You cant go in to modify your reservation and cherry pick a few days out of it. After you cancel you need to wait until you can try to rebook it. In the meantime others can sign up for email alerts if a site becomes available in that campground. So the original person who made/cancelled the reservation stand a good chance that someone else already booked it.

At least here there are no more days of just packing up your camping gear and going to find a site that day. Everything in our state parks is by reservation. Even if you pull up and the CG is half empty you still need to go on the reservation system and reserve a site. They don't allow walk ins.

The days of not planning out your trips ahead of time for summer and making reservations thinking that you will just pull up and get a site are virtually non existent anymore, at least in summer at the popular campgrounds.

As far as what others suggested, that if they didn't show up on time the site should be re-opened. Who makes that determining factor as the 'why' they didn't show to see if a site should be reopened? What if someone was called into work, truck issue, trailer issue, kid broke arm..but they still intend on coming for the rest of the reservation..is it the 17yr old kid at the check in?

As far as who determines a no show is not rocket science. You have 24 hours to show or call CG with explanation otherwise you are penalized.
My grandmother died or the dog hid the RV keys is not a valid excuse.
Either you call to say I broke down but I am now on my way or you face the penalty.
Yes some innocents will become collateral damage but the no shows will cease.

That don't work out here in Oregon. Sorry

[troubledwaters]

I hope you never have some one die while you're camping. It sure would suck to be you if you lost all your camping fees because of an unfortunate circumstance like your grandmother dying or an accident (not your fault) that totals your truck and trailer. Fortunately, when my brother in law died, more reasonable people were in charge, I only lost one day's fee instead of a whole week's fees, plus a ownerous cancellation fee to boot. Stuff beyond our control happens.

[Lantley]

austinjenna wrote:
One of the things that the Ohio state parks did in regards to people booking the entire week and then going in to modify their reservation just to get the weekend, was that they no longer allow any reservation changes. If you cancel the reservation it cancels the entire reservation. You cant go in to modify your reservation and cherry pick a few days out of it. After you cancel you need to wait until you can try to rebook it. In the meantime others can sign up for email alerts if a site becomes available in that campground. So the original person who made/cancelled the reservation stand a good chance that someone else already booked it.

At least here there are no more days of just packing up your camping gear and going to find a site that day. Everything in our state parks is by reservation. Even if you pull up and the CG is half empty you still need to go on the reservation system and reserve a site. They don't allow walk ins.

The days of not planning out your trips ahead of time for summer and making reservations thinking that you will just pull up and get a site are virtually non existent anymore, at least in summer at the popular campgrounds.

As far as what others suggested, that if they didn't show up on time the site should be re-opened. Who makes that determining factor as the 'why' they didn't show to see if a site should be reopened? What if someone was called into work, truck issue, trailer issue, kid broke arm..but they still intend on coming for the rest of the reservation..is it the 17yr old kid at the check in?

As far as who determines a no show is not rocket science. You have 24 hours to show or call CG with explanation otherwise you are penalized.
My grandmother died or the dog hid the RV keys is not a valid excuse.
Either you call to say I broke down but I am now on my way or you face the penalty.
Yes some innocents will become collateral damage but the no shows will cease.

[austinjenna]

One of the things that the Ohio state parks did in regards to people booking the entire week and then going in to modify their reservation just to get the weekend, was that they no longer allow any reservation changes. If you cancel the reservation it cancels the entire reservation. You cant go in to modify your reservation and cherry pick a few days out of it. After you cancel you need to wait until you can try to rebook it. In the meantime others can sign up for email alerts if a site becomes available in that campground. So the original person who made/cancelled the reservation stand a good chance that someone else already booked it.

At least here there are no more days of just packing up your camping gear and going to find a site that day. Everything in our state parks is by reservation. Even if you pull up and the CG is half empty you still need to go on the reservation system and reserve a site. They don't allow walk ins.

The days of not planning out your trips ahead of time for summer and making reservations thinking that you will just pull up and get a site are virtually non existent anymore, at least in summer at the popular campgrounds.

As far as what others suggested, that if they didn't show up on time the site should be re-opened. Who makes that determining factor as the 'why' they didn't show to see if a site should be reopened? What if someone was called into work, truck issue, trailer issue, kid broke arm..but they still intend on coming for the rest of the reservation..is it the 17yr old kid at the check in?

[ferndaleflyer]

austinjenna people with that attitude are the problem.

[Veebyes]

Strange how people will complain bitterly about the cost of camping yet they will book, & pay for, multiple days that they have no intention of using.

As an extended time traveller, rather than a weekend warrior, I seldom know exactly when & where I will be, unless I am making an event somewhere.

I like the policy of if you have not shown up before your the checkout time of your first day reserved, without some sort of communication why, you lose the entire reservation with a penalty.

Discourage the selfish campers with money to burn.

[austinjenna]

goducks10 wrote:


Just so someone else can have the spot?


Absolutely. Why should everyone else be denied the use of the campsite because of one selfish person.

Because they paid for it, period. Its not up to you to decide 'how' they use it. If they book for a week and are there just for the weekend then so be it and its there choice.

[toedtoes]

goducks10 wrote:

If the reserver doesn't show they lose all their camp fees. Why should they have an additional fee charged?

Because, apparently that isn't enough of a deterrent for people who repeatedly book and don't show. Adding a penalty may have them decide that their money is better spent on reservations they actually plan on keeping.

goducks10 wrote:

Just so someone else can have the spot?

Absolutely. Why should everyone else be denied the use of the campsite because of one selfish person.

goducks10 wrote:

And how would anyone know that someone didn't show up for the spot they wanted?

Most all campgrounds with policies regarding no shows allow for walk ins. So someone traveling through, or a local willing to drive out, can see that the site is unoccupied and have a place to stay.

In addition, you can call the ranger station and ask if there is any last minute opening for the campground.

goducks10 wrote:

Most all the spots I camp at in Oregon state that if you don't show by the checkout time the next day you forfeit the site. So one days wasted. Then what process would have to be in place for someone to get that spot?

The reason for this rule is because otherwise people would book the site from Wednesday the 1st thru Wednesday the 15th and only use it for the two Friday thru Sundays. Leaving the site locked up for the weekdays. So folks who want to camp Monday the 6th thru Friday the 10th can't get a campsite even though there's one sitting unused the entire time.

As for what process for someone to get that spot, there are three:

1. Again, folks can drive up on the chance that there was a no show or last minute cancellation;

2. Call the ranger station and ask;

3. In most cases, that site is re-released online starting on the 3rd (2nd day after the no show). So for that fourteen day reservation, the campsite is available for online reservations for the 3rd thru the 15th.

And yes, I have done just that. Had a campground book up solid months in advance and then had a site come available two days prior to my time off. So I was able to go camping after all.

[goducks10]

Lantley wrote:

goducks10 wrote:
CG's have budgets based on occupancy expectations. If the budget is based on say 50% filled for the whole callander year with summer peaking at 100% and winter and 0%-? then it's of no issue if they have no shows. No shows are not cancellations. More times than not a cancellation can be put back into the system and rebooked. Every rebooking makes $8-$10 or abouts for fees. So thats bonus money if the site gets rebooked.
No shows are simply part of the original perceived budget.

It would be hard to deal with no shows depending on how each CG is set up with the computer system. !st off a no show isn't noticed until the next day or latter. Then someone has to notify someone else that there's a no show and that person has to start the process of trying to get it back in the system. Problem with that is it may only be a res for 3 nights. So by the time the 3rd night rolls around the sites back in the system but the 4th night is booked by someone else.
It's just too much work to deal with no shows. There's only so much that can be done before the Cg starts to lose money. How much time and how many more people on the payroll would it take to make a few extra $ to help someone get a site for 1-2 nights after a no show?

On occasion we've booked a site that was #2-3 on our preference list hoping that when we show up our 1st choice was still open. It's worked more times than not.
No one lost money on that transaction. We just tell the host we moved to a different spot and they change the tags. Easy peasy.

Fines and penalties will cover any administrative cost associated with dealing with the offender. The idea is once in place the policy will be a deterrent. Hand out a few fines and the no shows will cease.
Imagine how many people would abuse handicapped parking if there were no fine. In my area its $350.00 fine to park in an ADA spot.
It was not always $350.00 but it was increased until they got results.
Same with passing a school bus. All buses now have cameras $300.00 fine if you pass the bus when its' red lights are on.
The fines pay for the cameras, staff and then some.

If the reserver doesn't show they lose all their camp fees. Why should they have an additional fee charged? Just so someone else can have the spot? And how would anyone know that someone didn't show up for the spot they wanted?
Most all the spots I camp at in Oregon state that if you don't show by the checkout time the next day you forfeit the site. So one days wasted. Then what process would have to be in place for someone to get that spot?

[toedtoes]

As the OP is speaking of Arizona State Parks specifically...

This is their mission statement:

Managing and conserving Arizona's natural, cultural and recreational resources for the benefit of the people, both in our parks and through our partners.



If the campsites sit unoccupied, paid for or not, they are NOT for "the benefit of the people".

This argument that "as long as they get the money who cares" is only valid if were private property. It's not. It's government land held for all people to enjoy.

[Lantley]

goducks10 wrote:
CG's have budgets based on occupancy expectations. If the budget is based on say 50% filled for the whole callander year with summer peaking at 100% and winter and 0%-? then it's of no issue if they have no shows. No shows are not cancellations. More times than not a cancellation can be put back into the system and rebooked. Every rebooking makes $8-$10 or abouts for fees. So thats bonus money if the site gets rebooked.
No shows are simply part of the original perceived budget.

It would be hard to deal with no shows depending on how each CG is set up with the computer system. !st off a no show isn't noticed until the next day or latter. Then someone has to notify someone else that there's a no show and that person has to start the process of trying to get it back in the system. Problem with that is it may only be a res for 3 nights. So by the time the 3rd night rolls around the sites back in the system but the 4th night is booked by someone else.
It's just too much work to deal with no shows. There's only so much that can be done before the Cg starts to lose money. How much time and how many more people on the payroll would it take to make a few extra $ to help someone get a site for 1-2 nights after a no show?

On occasion we've booked a site that was #2-3 on our preference list hoping that when we show up our 1st choice was still open. It's worked more times than not.
No one lost money on that transaction. We just tell the host we moved to a different spot and they change the tags. Easy peasy.

Fines and penalties will cover any administrative cost associated with dealing with the offender. The idea is once in place the policy will be a deterrent. Hand out a few fines and the no shows will cease.
Imagine how many people would abuse handicapped parking if there were no fine. In my area its $350.00 fine to park in an ADA spot.
It was not always $350.00 but it was increased until they got results.
Same with passing a school bus. All buses now have cameras $300.00 fine if you pass the bus when its' red lights are on.
The fines pay for the cameras, staff and then some.

[goducks10]

CG's have budgets based on occupancy expectations. If the budget is based on say 50% filled for the whole callander year with summer peaking at 100% and winter and 0%-? then it's of no issue if they have no shows. No shows are not cancellations. More times than not a cancellation can be put back into the system and rebooked. Every rebooking makes $8-$10 or abouts for fees. So thats bonus money if the site gets rebooked.
No shows are simply part of the original perceived budget.

It would be hard to deal with no shows depending on how each CG is set up with the computer system. !st off a no show isn't noticed until the next day or latter. Then someone has to notify someone else that there's a no show and that person has to start the process of trying to get it back in the system. Problem with that is it may only be a res for 3 nights. So by the time the 3rd night rolls around the sites back in the system but the 4th night is booked by someone else.
It's just too much work to deal with no shows. There's only so much that can be done before the Cg starts to lose money. How much time and how many more people on the payroll would it take to make a few extra $ to help someone get a site for 1-2 nights after a no show?

On occasion we've booked a site that was #2-3 on our preference list hoping that when we show up our 1st choice was still open. It's worked more times than not.
No one lost money on that transaction. We just tell the host we moved to a different spot and they change the tags. Easy peasy.

[Lantley]

austinjenna wrote:

This may work well for many on this forum. A young couple that wants to take their kids camping would probably not go without a reservation as they have to schedule vacation time from their jobs and make numerous preparations. Driving 4 hours to find no sites would be a hardship. That is why it is such a shame to see the sites in state parks go empty because people are gaming the reservation systems. Nothing will change until not showing up the first night hits the gamers really, really hard in the wallet.

The issue is you think the CG's really care and they don't. They have the money from the site so it makes no difference to them if the site is occupied or not. It actually works out in their favor because there is no cleanup from the site, less people using the bathrooms, showers, swimming pools etc..

In todays world you need to make reservations in advance - at least here in Ohio for the state parks as there are no walk ins allowed and all sites must be booked online.

I agree the CG's aren't very concerned about the vacancies, but the public (other campers) need to create pressure to change their thinking and force them to become aware of the issue.

[austinjenna]

This may work well for many on this forum. A young couple that wants to take their kids camping would probably not go without a reservation as they have to schedule vacation time from their jobs and make numerous preparations. Driving 4 hours to find no sites would be a hardship. That is why it is such a shame to see the sites in state parks go empty because people are gaming the reservation systems. Nothing will change until not showing up the first night hits the gamers really, really hard in the wallet.

The issue is you think the CG's really care and they don't. They have the money from the site so it makes no difference to them if the site is occupied or not. It actually works out in their favor because there is no cleanup from the site, less people using the bathrooms, showers, swimming pools etc..

In todays world you need to make reservations in advance - at least here in Ohio for the state parks as there are no walk ins allowed and all sites must be booked online.

[Durb]

bigred1cav wrote:
If I pay in advance and am unable to show, why is it an offense. They have my money and no maintenance fir my empty site

Durb wrote:

ferndaleflyer wrote:
only let them book a week or so in advance. First come first served.

This may work well for many on this forum. A young couple that wants to take their kids camping would probably not go without a reservation as they have to schedule vacation time from their jobs and make numerous preparations. Driving 4 hours to find no sites would be a hardship. That is why it is such a shame to see the sites in state parks go empty because people are gaming the reservation systems. Nothing will change until not showing up the first night hits the gamers really, really hard in the wallet.

Seriously? You justify locking up empty sites at state parks because you paid for them? Therein lies the problem.