changing old 120v wiring in 54 year old trailer

[mark_b_]

I am remodeling a 1964 Chinook towed travel trailer, kind of a rarity.
I want to swap out the old 110-120v wiring for some 10 gauge wiring, but cannot find a good resource for doing this online, YouTube, etc. I am particularly interested in knowing more about what kind of circuit box to put in; whether I can run smaller gauge wiring off of the 10 gauge for specific outlets and appliances, and so-forth.

Anyone able to point me in the direction of a good guide for this rehab issue?

[mark_b_]

I'll start looking at this PD4505 seriously and get that as a first step I think, along with planning out some circuits. THX

[mark_b_]

Wow! Abundance of great responses, and I thank you. The trailer is a 13 footer, currently has some old black covered Romex-type wiring in it that runs through an inside fuse box with a 15 amp fuse in it. This now powers about 3-4 outlets is all. There was a propane/AC fridge I got rid of. I got the idea about the 30 amp service and 10 gauge wire from an electrician who was working on my house and that I curb sided about the air conditioner--I assumed he was on target, but looks like not from these posts. For free advice, you all are golden! The air-conditioner will be nothing fancy, just an inexpensive 5000 btu one-room window AC. Also will want to run some kind of a water heater, a small AC fridge, probably a microwave, and a bunch of plugs. I like the idea of a box with inverter capabilities to charge the battery, to keep the 12v available for use. The AC/DC lamps in the thing are either going to need rewiring or replacement, if they still make such a beast as that, but I expect if they do, there are some awesome ones with LED, etc, for the 12v side.

[Matt_Colie]

Mark B,

Your best bet is to take the advice of time2roll. Do the unit up as any good modern (pick a good name here) manufacturer might do on their top of the line units. Chinook was that at the time. (I remember them.)

Set it up for 30amp source (unless you really want to go with 50amp). Use a dis-connectable 30amp shore cable. Find a good hiding place for the PD4045 and go to it.

If you do all of the internal with marine grade wire, it will not even cost 10% more and the flexibility of the stranded wire will make everything easier. The only downside is that you will have to actually wire the devices (like receptacles and switches) because you can't use the marine wire in the push in devices, that wire has to go under a screwed down binder. Marine wire is both tinned (for corrosion) and stranded for both flexibility and fatigue resistance. Hopefully corrosion will not be an issue, but the other will be.

You need to do some thinking now. Set up for at least two spare circuits on both sides (12 & 120) and when you are done, you will probably wish you had more. You did not say how long the unit is, and Chinook built a lot.

You will want at least one AC circuit for each 8 feet of length with a pair of duplex on each, at least a single duplex for the galley and one dedicated for the Air Conditioner - that should only need to be 15 amp. That might want to be 12AWG, but the rest need only be 14. Have you thought about installing a roof unit? If you do, either get a heat pump unit or one with a heat strip in it.

There should be a least 2 circuits for the interior 12V lighting. You will want a dedicated circuit for the potable pump and another if the heating furnace is fan forced, that should have its own. While you are at it, put some DC mouseholes (like lighter sockets) in strategic places to us car chargers for phones and tablets.

I know I have covered a lot here, but prior to the depression, I did a lot of power upgrades in both old RVs and performance cruisers (those are what retired racing sloops become).

If I have lost you and/or started more questions, I am here a lot. I am happy to answer questions and give explanations where needed. I have learned a lot in my years and a lot of that was because the folks that did know this stuff were willing to share it with the kid (then), and I am doing my best to pay that back.

Matt

[SidecarFlip]

I would imagine with a 54 year old trailer, the wiring is the least of your issues.

[DrewE]

A window AC would generally have a standard 15A plug on it, and so is connected to a 15A or 20A circuit. It's not permissible by code to put a 15/20A receptacle on a circuit that has 30A overcurrent protection; it needs a properly sized breaker (or fuse) for the receptacle rating. You can, of course, have a subpanel fed with a 30A circuit and from it run one or more 15A or 20A circuits, which is basically what you find in a typical RV.

It is permissible per code to use wire that's heavier than the minimum required, but frankly for the distance between the power inlet in the RV and the window it's not of any real benefit to do so.

I think you would want a small 30A RV distribution panel (which may also have a converter and/or 12V distribution as part of the same chassis, depending on the model). There would be a 30A main breaker from the 30A shore power cord. You'd probably want a 15A (min 14 gauge) or 20A (min 12 gauge) circuit dedicated for the air conditioner outlet. You'd need at least one general-purpose 15A (or 20A) circuit for the lights and other outlets. If any of the outlets are near sinks or are on the outside of the RV, there should be a GFCI protecting at least those outlets--either a GFCI breaker, or a GFCI outlet. You might want to think about circuits dedicated to other high-power items, such as a microwave oven, water heater electric element, etc. Obviously some of those details depend on how the trailer is equipped.

The neutral and ground should not be bonded together in the RV panel; it's wired like a subpanel, not like a residential main panel. The electrical ground is tied to the trailer frame (whatever metal parts there may be).

[Roger10378]

OP asks, Can you run smaller wire off of the main wire? Yes, but you must fuse it for the smallest wire so what does that accomplish? A fuse or circuit breaker is there to protect the wire so it has to be sized for the smallest wire. You can always use a bigger wire but never smaller.

[time2roll]

Window A/C that requires 30 amps? Must be a monster.
Most would go 240v before they go above 20 amp circuit.
120v 30a plug would be exceedingly rare.

[D_E_Bishop]

Mark, First off you need to let us know a little bit about your trailer, how long, how many outlets and fixtures, are you adding a weathertite outlet box with a GFCI outlet. What about the fridge? Propane or 120 vac. You mentioned 12 vdc/120 vac fixtures, those are okay but a photo would show if they need rewiring. How many outlets and intended use. You've got the walls open, installing a few extra outlets won't hurt. I'd also look at RV wall switches for the light fixtures, beats the built in switches.

Is there a junction or service box with fuses in the trailer?

Here is a linkto a catalog where you can look up what is available. I think that assuming you'll have batteries and a 120 vac line you can find a nice little distribution panel. Are you going to want a converter/charger or just a charger. Converter/charger will provide 120 volts and 12 volts to charge the batts and light the fixtures.

12 vdc wiring can be stranded and for the most part #14 or #16 for light fixtures. The wires for the window AC will most likely be okay with #12 romex.

All in all it would be an easy job even for a novice.

If you want you can PM me and then we can post what we talk about later so all the guys are included.

[donn0128]

You will want an AC on a dedicated circuit.

[mark_b_]

PS: this looks great....
http://www.bestconverter.com/PD4045-45-Amp-Inteli-Power-Mighty-Mini-Power-Center

[mark_b_]

Hey thanks...good thoughts, but you might be over my head some. I do want to put in a window AC at what would be the end of the circuit, hence the 10 gauge and 30 amps. Siding is off, ha ha, just a 1 by 4 skeleton at this point. There are currently some dual 12v/120v lighting fixtures I am going to try to re-use. So I would need a 30 amp breaker for the AC at the box, and that should be the single breaker for the otherwise not-too-complex circuit that runs through the trailer?

[time2roll]

Assuming you are just going 30 amp service consider a new PD distribution box with built in 12v supply and both 120v breakers and 12v fuses all together.

http://www.bestconverter.com/PD4045-45-Amp-Inteli-Power-Mighty-Mini-Power-Center

Incoming wire from the 30 amp cord should be #10 and branch circuits with 20a breaker need to be #12 and any 15 amp breakers should feed #14 wire. Standard romex style wire is fine for 120 vac. You will have a 30 amp main breaker in the panel to attach the incoming wire from the 30 amp cord.

12v side... insert fuses to match the wire size. I would use stranded marine tinned wire for 12v connections.

https://www.genuinedealz.com

[donn0128]

To do it, your first choir is going to be removing all the siding, either inside or outside, your choice. 12GA romex should be sufficient for everything but maybe the roof AC. Remember not much inside that oldie will be 120VAC. If there are 120VAC fixtures, your best bet is to replace them all with 12VDC fixtures. Same for the gas lights, take them out.