5th wheel weights and trucks to tow?????

[Don2466]

I'm sure i'm about to ask the million $ question, not the question worth a million but the one asked a million times.
Looking at buying a 5th wheel for full timing, narrowed down to mobile suites or lifestyle, their gvwr are around 14000-16000 give or take.
when looking a trucks to buy to pull, i'm looking at 350/3500,crew cab, 4x4, each will be almost the max 5th wheel tow capacity, and will exceed the CGVW.
what confused me is i'm not sure i'm figuring it right to be safe and within the weight limits. i've read alot on the truck weight, the 5th wheel weights, the combined weights, and then you read someone else saying "oh yea you can pull more, i do, never had a problem, the manufactures rate them all low", bla bla bla.
if a 350/3500 diesel cant pull 1700lbs or more then i might as well buy a semi.
any advise

[hone_eagle]

Cummins12V98 wrote:
MDT's and HDT's have their place but the fact is their market share is drying up since the newer 350/3500's are so much more capable right out of the box.

In the last few years I have talked to a few that were wanting to sell their big rigs and were having a hard time getting a good price for them. Most were wanting to buy a new RAM.

This is at full timers parks.

Yup hardly anyone posting there any more ,no new interest at all 🙂

[retispcsi]

Don 2466 See my the fiver and truck in my sig. I don't have my loaded weight yet I am not done loading as we are fulltime. Fiver came from factory dry at 17,235 with 3400 on the pin. We have things like 4-6v batteries, 6500k Gen. Fiberglass roof and some other goodies that add up the weight. The truck will pull it, stop it etc. without problem. I don't know about the GM or Ford products but I know they are getting higher numbers so that is your choice. The guys that drive the HDT's and MDT's well that is what they like. The 2013 + Rams have real number to back up the claim. Been in the Blue Ridge mountains and it did great. Looking forward to the Eisenhower Tunnel later this year. I may even take the cruise control off. Good luck with whatever you decide.,

[NC_Hauler]

RustyJC wrote:
My MS (see signature), as I stated earlier, has a 19,000 GVWR and shipped at 15,855 lbs.

Rusty

Wow:B I owned a 2012 Ram 3500 CC/LB/4X4 with 4:10 and 68RFE..If not mistaken, GCWR was 26,000 or 25,500#? Not sure about RAWR, but GVWR, (though not used), was 12,300# on the 12.

and I know Ron is as heavy....of course with truck he's going to..it's a moot point.

[RustyJC]

The Ram handles it fine. Moving from the 2004 to the 3K heavier (GVWR) 2014.5 MS cost me probably 0.5 MPG fuel mileage, but the new one has the 2" suspension riser, so in addition to the increase in weight, I'm pushing more air with the taller 2014.5. I did add Firestone RideRite air bags to get the headlights out of oncoming drivers' eyes with the new one.

Rusty

[Cummins12V98]

RustyJC wrote:
My MS (see signature), as I stated earlier, has a 19,000 GVWR and shipped at 15,855 lbs.

Rusty

HA my 36SB3 is already at 19K or so! I wonder how much the wife can load the new 39TKSB3. I am guessing it will end up being in the 20-21K range.

I assume you have the same towing experience with your RAM as I do. Literally while towing it feels like I am driving the truck only. Of course pulling a grade you will feel it but in general driving conditions it is great. Just can't imagine a MDT or HDT would benefit someone like me.

[Cummins12V98]

MDT's and HDT's have their place but the fact is their market share is drying up since the newer 350/3500's are so much more capable right out of the box.

In the last few years I have talked to a few that were wanting to sell their big rigs and were having a hard time getting a good price for them. Most were wanting to buy a new RAM.

This is at full timers parks.

[RustyJC]

My MS (see signature), as I stated earlier, has a 19,000 GVWR and shipped at 15,855 lbs.

Rusty

[NC_Hauler]

JIMNLIN wrote:

Looking at buying a 5th wheel for full timing, narrowed down to mobile suites or lifestyle, their gvwr are around 14000-16000 give or take.
when looking a trucks to buy to pull, i'm looking at 350/3500,crew cab, 4x4, each will be almost the max 5th wheel tow capacity, and will exceed the CGVW.

I don't know what your sousre for weights is but this is according to GM/Ford and RAm websites spec pages.

A 14k-16K 5th wheel trailer can equate 20 percent pin weights from 2800 lbs to 3200 lbs.

The F350 DRW and GM 3500 DRW both show around 22k-23k lb tow ratings. They both show those big 9600-9800 lb RAWR for carrying much heavier loads than the above pin weights.

The Ram 3500 DRW crew cab 4x4 has up to a 29k lb tow rating with a 9750 RAWR which also will carry much heavier pin weights.

You sure don't need a HDT size truck for just a 14k-16k trailer.

Agree, and I'm wondering with the weights the OP gave, if they're using "dry" or "empty" weights as opposed to GVWR of the unit....The 5er's OP is talking about have got to be heavier than what he/she is stating...My 5er has a GVW of 16,950#, and the units OP mentioned are normally heavier than my unit.

[NC_Hauler]

Lantley wrote:

NC Hauler wrote:

Dennis M M wrote:
Definitely look into a HDT! Go over to the HDT Forum on Escapees and spend some time reading posts.

For the price, capability and all around safety and comfort the HDT is hard to beat.

As far as day to day travel goes, we carry our smart car on the back of the Volvo. Volvo & smart together cost about half of what you would pay for new diesel dually.

Give it some serious consideration.

Are you absolutely sure on your cost "guesstimate"? Do you know what someone actually paid for their 1 ton crew cab dually? So I'd need a Smart Car, a way to get it on the back of the HDT, then run around in 1/2 a car that, if rear ended could cause major damage and possibly some pretty bad injuries.......??

When a 1 ton crew cab/long bed 4 wheel drive will do all I need and I can park it in my car port and drive it everywhere I need to and it'll tow a quite heavy 5er....believe I'll stay with the pick up, and still have full warranty on the brand new truck...All have their pro's and con's, but climbing up into the cab of a HDT isn't something the wife and I have to do to tow a heavier 5er...

I like how so many know what an individual paid for their truck...if going by MSRP, NOBODY pays that...It may cost a little more brand new but I have a full warranty..,

Do they throw in a Smart car for free, or does one only pay a couple hundred dollars for one of those...Everyone I've ever seen has been a bit over priced in my way of looking at it, but guess we don't figure that in the cost?

-
I think you both have valid points. HDT"s are a viable option. HDT's are not as expensive as many think. I priced HDT conversion in the 25K-35K range. You cannot get a new fully equipped dually pick up for that. If you can I'll take 2.
The new dually pick ups are way more capable than prior years. AS NC Hauler point out. His truck has a 37500 GCWR which is huge.
2015 GM Duramax dually has a impressive 7K payload rating.
HDT are way more capable in terms of stability, power and braking than a dually. HDT are not for everyone. While some guys use them,HDT's are a bit large to use as a daily driver.

To the OP. You will need at a minimum a very late model diesel dually pick up to tow a large DRV fiver and remain within all of your towing parameters.

I've got about 18K more in my, at the time, brand new truck than your upper end of $35,000, and have full warranty for 7 yrs, 100,000 miles, whichever comes first with zero deductible..How much will the Smart car cost me? Going to lower that spread....As stated also, my rear axle weight rating, with the right tires has an AAM rating of 11,800#, which would add another 2,000# in payload, but I won't go that route...don't need to... I have a pin weight near 3500# and am well under my trucks GVWR..not near my trucks RAWR...

Other than stating the obvious that a HDT is more stable, has more power and better braking....IF the 1 ton crew cab, long bed dually's of today didn't have the ratings they do, I could understand needing one...In fact for 5er's over the 23,000# mark, it may be more viable...but even a 23,000# loaded 5er with possibly a pin weight of 4600# or more would still have me under my trucks RAWR and still about 5,000# under my trucks GCWR.

Agree though with most of your post.....Also agree that OP, IF getting 5er they are talking about, could tow it with one of today's 1 ton dually's.

Bottom line guess it depends on how often you're going to tow and how convenient or inconvenient it will be to run around in the HDH if camping somewhere for a week or two and wanting to do some sightseeing.

[JIMNLIN]

Looking at buying a 5th wheel for full timing, narrowed down to mobile suites or lifestyle, their gvwr are around 14000-16000 give or take.
when looking a trucks to buy to pull, i'm looking at 350/3500,crew cab, 4x4, each will be almost the max 5th wheel tow capacity, and will exceed the CGVW.

I don't know what your sousre for weights is but this is according to GM/Ford and RAm websites spec pages.

A 14k-16K 5th wheel trailer can equate 20 percent pin weights from 2800 lbs to 3200 lbs.

The F350 DRW and GM 3500 DRW both show around 22k-23k lb tow ratings. They both show those big 9600-9800 lb RAWR for carrying much heavier loads than the above pin weights.

The Ram 3500 DRW crew cab 4x4 has up to a 29k lb tow rating with a 9750 RAWR which also will carry much heavier pin weights.

You sure don't need a HDT size truck for just a 14k-16k trailer.

[laknox]

NC Hauler, just for #hits and giggles, I jumped on the GM web site and started building a new 3500HD D'max. I stopped when I was still selecting options and the MSRP was nearly $66,000. For that kind of dough, I can rebuild my '02 D'max into a totally custom truck that would serve me a whole lot better than a Volvo. 🙂 Drop my '02 2500 body on a '15 3500 SRW frame, smooth and paint it and redo the interior, eliminate the pollution control garbage, register it as an '02 2500 and have my "perfect" truck. 🙂

Lyle

[Lantley]

NC Hauler wrote:

Dennis M M wrote:
Definitely look into a HDT! Go over to the HDT Forum on Escapees and spend some time reading posts.

For the price, capability and all around safety and comfort the HDT is hard to beat.

As far as day to day travel goes, we carry our smart car on the back of the Volvo. Volvo & smart together cost about half of what you would pay for new diesel dually.

Give it some serious consideration.

Are you absolutely sure on your cost "guesstimate"? Do you know what someone actually paid for their 1 ton crew cab dually? So I'd need a Smart Car, a way to get it on the back of the HDT, then run around in 1/2 a car that, if rear ended could cause major damage and possibly some pretty bad injuries.......??

When a 1 ton crew cab/long bed 4 wheel drive will do all I need and I can park it in my car port and drive it everywhere I need to and it'll tow a quite heavy 5er....believe I'll stay with the pick up, and still have full warranty on the brand new truck...All have their pro's and con's, but climbing up into the cab of a HDT isn't something the wife and I have to do to tow a heavier 5er...

I like how so many know what an individual paid for their truck...if going by MSRP, NOBODY pays that...It may cost a little more brand new but I have a full warranty..,

Do they throw in a Smart car for free, or does one only pay a couple hundred dollars for one of those...Everyone I've ever seen has been a bit over priced in my way of looking at it, but guess we don't figure that in the cost?

-
I think you both have valid points. HDT"s are a viable option. HDT's are not as expensive as many think. I priced HDT conversion in the 25K-35K range. You cannot get a new fully equipped dually pick up for that. If you can I'll take 2.
The new dually pick ups are way more capable than prior years. AS NC Hauler point out. His truck has a 37500 GCWR which is huge.
2015 GM Duramax dually has a impressive 7K payload rating.
HDT are way more capable in terms of stability, power and braking than a dually. HDT are not for everyone. While some guys use them,HDT's are a bit large to use as a daily driver.

To the OP. You will need at a minimum a very late model diesel dually pick up to tow a large DRV fiver and remain within all of your towing parameters.

[Cummins12V98]

I call them "Not Very" SMART cars. But hey if I have to hit someone on the road I know who will win if it's a Not Very SMART Car.

Our Dually is our Daily driver. Wife even drives it!

[NC_Hauler]

Dennis M M wrote:
Definitely look into a HDT! Go over to the HDT Forum on Escapees and spend some time reading posts.

For the price, capability and all around safety and comfort the HDT is hard to beat.

As far as day to day travel goes, we carry our smart car on the back of the Volvo. Volvo & smart together cost about half of what you would pay for new diesel dually.

Give it some serious consideration.

Are you absolutely sure on your cost "guesstimate"? Do you know what someone actually paid for their 1 ton crew cab dually? So I'd need a Smart Car, a way to get it on the back of the HDT, then run around in 1/2 a car that, if rear ended could cause major damage and possibly some pretty bad injuries.......??

When a 1 ton crew cab/long bed 4 wheel drive will do all I need and I can park it in my car port and drive it everywhere I need to and it'll tow a quite heavy 5er....believe I'll stay with the pick up, and still have full warranty on the brand new truck...All have their pro's and con's, but climbing up into the cab of a HDT isn't something the wife and I have to do to tow a heavier 5er...

I like how so many know what an individual paid for their truck...if going by MSRP, NOBODY pays that...It may cost a little more brand new but I have a full warranty..,

Do they throw in a Smart car for free, or does one only pay a couple hundred dollars for one of those...Everyone I've ever seen has been a bit over priced in my way of looking at it, but guess we don't figure that in the cost?