Another "am I overloaded" thread

[tim1970]

Wife and I found a 5er we really like. Keystone Hideout 315RDTS. I would like to hear some real world examples from people who tow something similar to this with the same type of TV as mine. Any issues towing, did you do any upgrades such as air bags? This would probably put me a little over on Tow vehicle GVWR, but under on GCWR and axle ratings.

RV specs:
empty weight - 9450
GVWR - 11855
empty pin weight - 1695

Tow vehicle - 2016 Ford f250 crew cab 4X4 diesel, short bed
GVWR - 10,000
Front GAWR - 5200
Rear GAWR - 6100
Tire weight rating - 3750 each
Truck empty weight - ???? I have heard anywhere from 6800 - 8000 lbs but I have not had a chance to stop at any scales yet.

[MFL]

tim1970 wrote:

MFL wrote:

Something to consider, besides getting the floor plan you like, is FW trailer axle size. Many of the 10k GVWR trailers have light axles. They will be rated 4,400 lbs, and will have smaller brakes. If you get 5,200 lb axles, you will get the better/larger 12" brake drums.


Jerry

Yes, I have already been thinking about this. In fact, I was looking at some smaller 5W that are not considered "Xtra Light" or "1/2 ton towable" One of the ones I was looking at was a Keystone Cougar with a raised den in the back. Because of the raised den there is aTON of storage available in the back. Since there is so much storage available in the back, can I assume that the trailer is designed to carry a lot of weight in the back (like a toy hauler) without affecting the towing ability because there is not enough weight on the hitch?

Normally, a FW toy hauler will have a heavier dry pin wt, such as 25 percent, to offset the heavy toys hauled in the rear. You will have to figure the dry percentage, pin vrs dry trailer wt, on the trailer you are looking at. I'm sure by now, you know most pin wts will be about 20 percent. With RV manufacturers, anything is possible, so hard to make any assumption.

I would rather tow with a heavy pin wt, than to be under 20, or especially close to 15 percent. Chucking/handling issues can surface from light pin.

Jerry

[laknox]

Tim1970, look at the KZ Durango 1500 FWs. They have very similar floorplans to the Eagle HT line. They gross 650 lbs more, though, but I think that a lot of that is because they have larger holding tanks (especially black) and that has to be taken into account, just in case you have to tow with full tanks. The smaller black tank on the Jaycos is what makes them #2 on my short list.

Lyle

[tim1970]

MFL wrote:

Something to consider, besides getting the floor plan you like, is FW trailer axle size. Many of the 10k GVWR trailers have light axles. They will be rated 4,400 lbs, and will have smaller brakes. If you get 5,200 lb axles, you will get the better/larger 12" brake drums.


Jerry

Yes, I have already been thinking about this. In fact, I was looking at some smaller 5W that are not considered "Xtra Light" or "1/2 ton towable" One of the ones I was looking at was a Keystone Cougar with a raised den in the back. Because of the raised den there is aTON of storage available in the back. Since there is so much storage available in the back, can I assume that the trailer is designed to carry a lot of weight in the back (like a toy hauler) without affecting the towing ability because there is not enough weight on the hitch?

[rhagfo]

justafordguy wrote:


Sure did, for about a year, it towed great. The scaled weight of my Gateway fully loaded is 14,215. The loaded pin is 2350 which made the total weight of the truck 10015. I scaled the rig several time during the first year just to be sure. It was always well under all other mfg limits. I have the truck registered for 14k gvw and have 7500lbs of rear tire capacity so it's totally legal.

Well I was close with the 15% pin calculates out to 16.5%, I am impressed you could keep the pin that light.

[justafordguy]

rhagfo wrote:

justafordguy wrote:
OP, your truck is perfect for a 5th wheel that size. You will be under on all Manufacturers limits (and it will pull it like a train). My 5th wheel is a good bit heavier than yours and my old F250 was under all Manufacturers limits except 15lb over the 3/4 ton truck 10k GVWR limit.

:h

This is where I get so confused!!
This is your sig;
2015 Heartland Gateway 3650BH
2012 F350 CC FX4 DRW
2005 F250 CC FX4

Fordguy, are you saying you towed the Heartland in your signature with a F250, and were only 15# over the 10,000# TV GVWR???
That rig has a 12,999 dry weight, and 15,500# GVWR.

You must either have 15% pin weight, or travel with both the TV and 5er empty.

I think Old-Biscuit thinks I am crazy, but it is what it is only exceed GVWR, and tows, carries, and drives like a dream.

Sure did, for about a year, it towed great. The scaled weight of my Gateway fully loaded is 14,215. The loaded pin is 2350 which made the total weight of the truck 10015. I scaled the rig several time during the first year just to be sure. It was always well under all other mfg limits. I have the truck registered for 14k gvw and have 7500lbs of rear tire capacity so it's totally legal.

[Old-Biscuit]

Me Again wrote:

Old-Biscuit wrote:



'rhagfo'
Don't know where you get the idea I think you are crazy.
I have never stated your set up was out of bounds or way overloaded :H

Read the forth post in the thread again. Then someone got all crazy with really light weights about the TV.

I posted.

"Other than being over the TV 10K GVWR by around 1,000, you should be fine. With a hitch and a few other things your truck will be over 8500 lbs ready to tow. Our SRW RAM 3500 is in the 8700-8900 range ready to tow with a manual slider. You will be close to the 6100 RGAWR." Chris

I posted 'CURB' weights on OPs truck and MY truck
Only 218# difference
OPs GVWR is 10,000# and Mine is 10,100#
Only 100# difference
OPs scaled weight 8180# and MY scaled weight is 7980#
Only 200# difference

No way OPs truck will be 1000# over trucks GVWR with a 12K 5th wheel
A few hundred lbs...YES but no where near 1000#
6100# RAWR...with the 12K trailer fully loaded will be close but with 3750# tires no where near their ratings

Like I posted ...no big deal

[rhagfo]

tim1970 wrote:
Thanks for all the input. I stopped by a CAT scale today and weighed my truck. With the fuel tank as full as I could possibly get it, and with my daughter in the back seat my truck had the following weight:

Front: 4920
Rear: 3260
Total: 8180

Unfortunately I can't weigh my truck and RV until after I purchase the RV. I figure the 5th wheel hitch will add another 200, the only other passenger will be my wife and should only add 75lbs (just in case she reads this. 🙂 ) I really don't expect much more gear in the truck except for maybe a blanket and pillow for the passengers, so figure at most another 50lbs. I will also figure 100 lbs of additional stuff in the bed of the truck, which brings my weight to 8605 (+ or - a few lbs on the passenger weight 🙂 )

So, going by the 10K GVWR sticker on my truck I am left with just under 1400lbs for pin weight. Or, if I go by the RAWR of 6100, I figure to have about 2400 for pin weight after passengers, hitch, and cargo.

While I do not plan to get a 5th wheel with a 2400 lb pin weight when loaded, I am starting to feel comfortable exceeding the 10K limit. The main reasons are because I have the same axle as the F350 SRW, along with 20" rims with tires rated at 3750 each, and I can always use air bags to level my truck if needed. (Yes, I know air bags do not increase payload)

Am I way off in my thinking? Here are the 2 trailers we are looking at

Jayco Eagle HT 29.5FBDS
unloaded weight: 8195
unloaded hitch weight : 1590
GVWR: 9950
This is advertised as a 1/2 ton towable, yet I am technically unable to tow it with my 3/4 ton :?

Keystone Hideout 315RDTS
unloaded weight: 9450
unloaded hitch weight: 1695
GVWR: 11855

Are these ok? Without being able to hitch up and weigh and trailer fully loaded, what parameters should I look at for 5th wheels? GVWR under 12K? under 10K???

If you made it this far, thanks for reading

Tim1970, your TV weights are about what I expected, just a tad fatter than my 2001.

Based on scale weights, you have 2,840# to play with for pin and hitch. you will still be fine on your rear axle.

Our 5er has a Dry weight of 9,620# and a GVWR of 12,360# we have it loaded to about 11,000# +/- some. I think you would be happy with either of those 5er's.

Yep, the curse of the 250/2500 over the GVWR. That works for me and my rig, you need to decide for yourself.

ON EDIT FYI: When we got the Copper Canyon, I knew we would be well over the Ram's 8,800# GVWR, so I stated that I needed to hook up the 5er to my TV BEFORE signing the papers. Once it was connected and the landing gear raised, and it didn't drop any more than with our older 28' 5er, we promptly signed.

[Me_Again]

Old-Biscuit wrote:
The Jayco GVWR 9950# using 20% would have a wet pin weight of 1990#

The Keystone GVWR 11855 using 20% would have a wet pin weight of 2371#

*****IF they were loaded to full GVWRs

Either will be OK


'rhagfo'
Don't know where you get the idea I think you are crazy.
I have never stated your set up was out of bounds or way overloaded :H
You have a 2001 2500 (8800 GVWR) and are towing a 10,000# trailer. No big deal.

OP has a 2016 250 (10,000 GVWR) and is considering a 12,000# trailer...again no big deal

I have a 2007 3500 (10,100 GVWR) and tow a 14,000# trailer....no big deal

ALL of us are within RAWR, rear tire load ratings and GCVWR

Seems good to me

Read the forth post in the thread again. Then someone got all crazy with really light weights about the TV.

I posted.

"Other than being over the TV 10K GVWR by around 1,000, you should be fine. With a hitch and a few other things your truck will be over 8500 lbs ready to tow. Our SRW RAM 3500 is in the 8700-8900 range ready to tow with a manual slider. You will be close to the 6100 RGAWR." Chris

[MFL]

Tim, you are good to go with either of those trailers.

Something to consider, besides getting the floor plan you like, is FW trailer axle size. Many of the 10k GVWR trailers have light axles. They will be rated 4,400 lbs, and will have smaller brakes. If you get 5,200 lb axles, you will get the better/larger 12" brake drums.

Be aware, your truck is tall, and will affect how level your trailer tows. If you buy a smaller FW, your next thread may be, how do I get my FW to tow level. You have seen many FWs going down the road, tail dragging, nose to the sky, not the best setup. Do some measuring BEFORE purchase. If your truck squats a little, it may be a good thing.

Jerry

[Old-Biscuit]

The Jayco GVWR 9950# using 20% would have a wet pin weight of 1990#

The Keystone GVWR 11855 using 20% would have a wet pin weight of 2371#

*****IF they were loaded to full GVWRs

Either will be OK


'rhagfo'
Don't know where you get the idea I think you are crazy.
I have never stated your set up was out of bounds or way overloaded :H
You have a 2001 2500 (8800 GVWR) and are towing a 10,000# trailer. No big deal.

OP has a 2016 250 (10,000 GVWR) and is considering a 12,000# trailer...again no big deal

I have a 2007 3500 (10,100 GVWR) and tow a 14,000# trailer....no big deal

ALL of us are within RAWR, rear tire load ratings and GCVWR

Seems good to me

[tim1970]

Thanks for all the input. I stopped by a CAT scale today and weighed my truck. With the fuel tank as full as I could possibly get it, and with my daughter in the back seat my truck had the following weight:

Front: 4920
Rear: 3260
Total: 8180

Unfortunately I can't weigh my truck and RV until after I purchase the RV. I figure the 5th wheel hitch will add another 200, the only other passenger will be my wife and should only add 75lbs (just in case she reads this. 🙂 ) I really don't expect much more gear in the truck except for maybe a blanket and pillow for the passengers, so figure at most another 50lbs. I will also figure 100 lbs of additional stuff in the bed of the truck, which brings my weight to 8605 (+ or - a few lbs on the passenger weight 🙂 )

So, going by the 10K GVWR sticker on my truck I am left with just under 1400lbs for pin weight. Or, if I go by the RAWR of 6100, I figure to have about 2400 for pin weight after passengers, hitch, and cargo.

While I do not plan to get a 5th wheel with a 2400 lb pin weight when loaded, I am starting to feel comfortable exceeding the 10K limit. The main reasons are because I have the same axle as the F350 SRW, along with 20" rims with tires rated at 3750 each, and I can always use air bags to level my truck if needed. (Yes, I know air bags do not increase payload)

Am I way off in my thinking? Here are the 2 trailers we are looking at

Jayco Eagle HT 29.5FBDS
unloaded weight: 8195
unloaded hitch weight : 1590
GVWR: 9950
This is advertised as a 1/2 ton towable, yet I am technically unable to tow it with my 3/4 ton :?

Keystone Hideout 315RDTS
unloaded weight: 9450
unloaded hitch weight: 1695
GVWR: 11855

Are these ok? Without being able to hitch up and weigh and trailer fully loaded, what parameters should I look at for 5th wheels? GVWR under 12K? under 10K???

If you made it this far, thanks for reading

[rhagfo]

justafordguy wrote:
OP, your truck is perfect for a 5th wheel that size. You will be under on all Manufacturers limits (and it will pull it like a train). My 5th wheel is a good bit heavier than yours and my old F250 was under all Manufacturers limits except 15lb over the 3/4 ton truck 10k GVWR limit.

:h

This is where I get so confused!!
This is your sig;
2015 Heartland Gateway 3650BH
2012 F350 CC FX4 DRW
2005 F250 CC FX4

Fordguy, are you saying you towed the Heartland in your signature with a F250, and were only 15# over the 10,000# TV GVWR???
That rig has a 12,999 dry weight, and 15,500# GVWR.

You must either have 15% pin weight, or travel with both the TV and 5er empty.

I think Old-Biscuit thinks I am crazy, but it is what it is only exceed GVWR, and tows, carries, and drives like a dream.

[justafordguy]

OP, your truck is perfect for a 5th wheel that size. You will be under on all Manufacturers limits (and it will pull it like a train). My 5th wheel is a good bit heavier than yours and my old F250 was under all Manufacturers limits except 15lb over the 3/4 ton truck 10k GVWR limit.

[Old-Biscuit]

rhagfo wrote:

Me Again wrote:

Old-Biscuit wrote:

His 2016 250 has a 'curb' weight of ~6828#
My 2007 3500 has a 'curb' weight of ~6610#
218# difference is NOT a lot heavier.

I have a hard time believing that a 2016 F250 4X4 is 1,000 lbs lighter that my 2015 3500 Ram 4x4. Ford's site notes Base Unit weight. I unless you have a 2x4 gasser your 2007 3500 would be heavier than 6610.

LOL!!!

If his F250 only has a 9,000# GVWR, the OP will for sure be about 1,000# to 1,200# over the TV GVWR, but likely still have about 500# to 600# to spare on the 6,100# rear axle.

My 2001 has a GVWR of 8,800#, and I carry/Tow a slightly larger 5er, scale weight of the TV is usually right at 10,000# +/- about 200#. The TV is a Loaded Laramie STS, and with the stuff I carry in the tool box comes in at about 7,800# scaled without the 5er.

Mine is a Camper Package, so no need for Bags to carry it level.

OPs truck has a GVWR of 10,000# :S