Crack in Sidewall by Bedroom Slide

[Tumbleweed79]

We purchased a brand new 2014 Keystone Avalanche on June 2, 2014. By the 23 of June after having pulled it only twice I noticed a crack in the sidewall by the bedroom. It was small and while concerned I wasn't sure if it had been there when I bought it or not. We were parked for over a month and I decided to keep an eye on it and if it got ANY bigger I would make the call to Keystone. Well...it did. Below are the pictures.

I contacted Keystone, they told me to get it to a dealer. The dealer in Tulsa where we were was booked up until October so we ended up pulling it to Texas. After I dropped it off the service manager called me and told me that what he had thought was a simple "stress crack", after seeing it first hand was certain it was a cracked weld or broken frame.

After several days of waiting I got an email from the dealer stating that Keystone had "respectfully declined" assistance in our problem. They cited a Warranty Exclusion that "Damage or loss caused in whole or in part to a .... cargo platform" was not covered. At this time, it doesn't appear I have ANY warranty on this unit. Although Keystone won't answer that question.

The cargo platform in question was one that we had on our Keystone Bullet (with absolutely no problems) and carried our two kids bikes and a door mat. That's it NOTHING else.

Has anybody else had this type of crack on your unit?
Have you had any trouble with your manufacturer covering the repairs or "respectfully declining" to assist?

The unit was only 19-20 days from purchase and had this problem.

I have pictures to post, but am not understanding how to go about posting them. Please help with that.

Thanks!

[laknox]

Tumbleweed79 wrote:

laknox wrote:

FLY 4 FUN wrote:
For sure I feel for you, but there are only a few rv's designed and shipped with bumper mount bike/cargo racks. The rest are clearly placarded against modifying in any way.

I doubt your cargo rack had anything to do with the crack, but now the dealer and manufacturer have every right to deny your claim as you voided the structural warranty.

I am truly sorry you are getting the run-around, but they play the game to win!

Daryll

If there was no drilling or welding on the frame, they have a =very= weak case.

Lyle

I agree! My friend took pictures of a Honda Prius with a bike rack on the back and sent it to them... He said maybe Keystone needs to get together with Honda to figure out how to make a frame that won't crack from a bike rack. Also, there was NO PLACARD anywhere. It only stated it in the owner's manual, which I cannot even read until I have bought the thing! By that time I had already moved the cargo platform over from our other trailer.

Also, the very fact that other manufacturers INSTALL cargo platforms on the back show that it can be done without destroying the integrity of "Frame Camber". As a matter of fact it may be a safety net so that nothing else can be put on the back bumper without TRULY modifying it.

Since you have now posted a picture, they're going to say that you installed a "cargo rack" with a capacity of up to X hundred lbs. The fact that you never put anything but bikes on it will get lost in the shuffle. Had you taken the rack off before taking it in, we would still likely be having this conversation, as that's the way the mfrs all work, but you'd have a much stronger position. I agree that by them bending over and keeping you happy would sell a lot more RVs than them putting you through this. The mfrs just don't seem to get the power of the Internet and how bloody =fast= and =far= this kind of stuff can spread. And don't be afraid to spread it around, either. Good luck, is all I can say.

Lyle

[spud1957]

Funny, Keystone feels it's OK to clamp the spare tire to the rear bumper. Probably weighs the same as 2 bikes.

S

[Tumbleweed79]

laknox wrote:

FLY 4 FUN wrote:
For sure I feel for you, but there are only a few rv's designed and shipped with bumper mount bike/cargo racks. The rest are clearly placarded against modifying in any way.

I doubt your cargo rack had anything to do with the crack, but now the dealer and manufacturer have every right to deny your claim as you voided the structural warranty.

I am truly sorry you are getting the run-around, but they play the game to win!

Daryll

If there was no drilling or welding on the frame, they have a =very= weak case.

Lyle

I agree! My friend took pictures of a Honda Prius with a bike rack on the back and sent it to them... He said maybe Keystone needs to get together with Honda to figure out how to make a frame that won't crack from a bike rack. Also, there was NO PLACARD anywhere. It only stated it in the owner's manual, which I cannot even read until I have bought the thing! By that time I had already moved the cargo platform over from our other trailer.

Also, the very fact that other manufacturers INSTALL cargo platforms on the back show that it can be done without destroying the integrity of "Frame Camber". As a matter of fact it may be a safety net so that nothing else can be put on the back bumper without TRULY modifying it.

[laknox]

FLY 4 FUN wrote:
For sure I feel for you, but there are only a few rv's designed and shipped with bumper mount bike/cargo racks. The rest are clearly placarded against modifying in any way.

I doubt your cargo rack had anything to do with the crack, but now the dealer and manufacturer have every right to deny your claim as you voided the structural warranty.

I am truly sorry you are getting the run-around, but they play the game to win!

Daryll

If there was no drilling or welding on the frame, they have a =very= weak case.

Lyle

[Tumbleweed79]

Here are the pictures:

[Tumbleweed79]

TXiceman wrote:
Being a retired mechanical engineer...I call Meadow Muffins on the warranty denial. Did you not say you had a clamp on bike rack and not any alteration to the frame. But I am guessing that they are using the term ATTACHMENT as anything bolted or clamped.

Good luck.

Ken

Ken, I agree with the Meadow Muffins call 🙂 According to my attorney, they can deny anything they want. When they THINK they see an exclusion they are even quicker to deny. I asked him point blank if the burden of proof for disproving their denial was on the consumer and he stated, "Yes, it is." Evidently, that is why they get by with this so much. Who has the time, money, physical and emotional energy to make them be accountable.

This is a common problem (sidewall crack by slide), but they wouldn't even tell the dealership what to do about it until they got pictures from every angle of the unit. The unit is is in perfect shape...its brand new! That is when they saw the platform. If I was a corporation with a name and reputation to maintain, I would ask the dealership to dig into it IMMEDIATELY and report what the problem was. I would try to put a stop to the potential of more such issues on my brand new design...but, again, who am I...just a consumer. 🙂

Yes, it is a clamp on. There has been ABSOLUTELY NO tweaking, bending, twisting, compression, or distortion to the rear bumper. That is well documented. If I was a manufacturer I would be very hesitant to say that my bumper was stronger than my frame; that it could break something that was nearly 40 feet away.

I will try to post pictures today. I have a pop-up blocker that keeps blocking the picture bucket website.

[TXiceman]

Being a retired mechanical engineer...I call Meadow Muffins on the warranty denial. Did you not say you had a clamp on bike rack and not any alteration to the frame. But I am guessing that they are using the term ATTACHMENT as anything bolted or clamped.

Good luck.

Ken

[Tumbleweed79]

I will keep it updated unless my attorney tells me itherwise.

I financed.

Here is what they are saying:

As previously noted your Owner’s Manual states,
Thank you for your inquiry with Keystone RV. Keystone RV 1 year limited warranty states, “Damage or loss caused in whole or in part by unauthorized attachments, modifications, or alterations to the structure, body, pin box, or frame of the recreational vehicle including but not limited to trailer hitches for towing, or platforms for supporting cargo”. The reason behind this is that attachments especially to the rear of the unit can effect frame camber.

[tsetsaf]

What does your warranty say? Did you pay cash or finance?

[Mike_LeClair]

Tumbleweed79 posted "I have scheduled an appointment with my dealer for a complete repair, inspection, and documentation of the cause. It appears that I will have to file a lawsuit."

Just for my own curiosity and examinations of the crack on our RV, I would appreciate being kept apprised of the results of your dealers investigation into the cause of your cracking RV skin. If I have a serious or potentially serious internal structural problem with broken frame structure of frame camber then I better get after the repairs. Would you please PM me directly or keep this thread alive with your progress and results of investigation. Good luck with your legal pursuit - personally I sincerely hope you kick some serious butt.

Cheers!

Mike

[Tumbleweed79]

My question is this: How many times has this and is this happening? What is the multiple of their "denials"?

50 X $3,000 = $150,000

So, if it was 50 people they "denied" then they would save as much as three units.

It would seem prudent to understand that they will lose more than three units in sales once word gets around.

But, who am I...I am just the customer...what do I know? 🙂

[TXiceman]

If you are getting an attorney, ask them to produce the stress and load calculations for the fram as designed and with an extra 50# on the back. First off, I doubt if they can produce a set of stress/load calculations on the frame design.

In the frame calculations, do they have fluid tanks full, 1/2 full or empty and then how do they allow for cargo loading in the front bay or in the trailer.

You may find they do not have an engineer on staff capable of running the calculations and they did not bother to get an outside consultant.

Ken

[bstark]

Tumbleweed79 wrote:
Thank you Mike and TXiceman! I have scheduled an appointment with my dealer for a complete repair, inspection, and documentation of the cause. It appears that I will have to file a lawsuit.

I was told by management at Keystone that a hitch/platform on the back can affect frame camber and thus voids my warranty. They will not respond to my question of whether or not they are stating the platform cracked my sidewall and possibly frame/chassis. I have told them I held two kids bikes and nothing more, but I have yet to hear back from them on this issue.

How is it conceivable that a $60+K unit developed a crack 19 days after purchase and it was not a manufacturer defect or that it was attributed to a 40 lbs. cargo platform? I know what they are doing, I just refuse to play their game. 🙂

It isn't in any way conceivable! They're using anything they can find to absolve them from the expense of ANY and all repairs. Restrictions to frame platform additions are intended to deal with those who would hang an 800lb Harley or a 10KW diesel generator and fuel tank off the back end. I've seen trailers with more than 100lbs.of stuff hanging off the rear ladder.

Ludicrous in the extreme to blame the attachament of a cargo frame on the rear that was lightly loaded to describe a frame camber change.

I'd be all over them demanding proof the camber was indeed now outside factory spec's and I'd take it to an independent shop to ascertain this. If they are attributing this to frame flex generated by a paltry 60lbs. hanging off the rear then what about those folks who show no restraint when loading their cargo bay area?

[Tumbleweed79]

Thank you Mike and TXiceman! I have scheduled an appointment with my dealer for a complete repair, inspection, and documentation of the cause. It appears that I will have to file a lawsuit.

I was told by management at Keystone that a hitch/platform on the back can affect frame camber and thus voids my warranty. They will not respond to my question of whether or not they are stating the platform cracked my sidewall and possibly frame/chassis. I have told them I held two kids bikes and nothing more, but I have yet to hear back from them on this issue.

How is it conceivable that a $60+K unit developed a crack 19 days after purchase and it was not a manufacturer defect or that it was attributed to a 40 lbs. cargo platform? I know what they are doing, I just refuse to play their game. 🙂

[TXiceman]

Drilling the hole in the siding is just a stress relief point and all it will do is lessen the chance of the crack expanding more. It will not solve the problem of a bad frame.

Ken