DRW vs SRW Trucks

[Hookem2004]

Wife and I are looking at a Grand Design Momentum 397TH. Weight on that 5'er is 20,000 lbs loaded. I currently have a 2006 DRW truck now and need to buy a newer truck to handle that sort of capacity.

I see that the single rear wheel drive trucks have a capacity of only 17,000 lbs. Does anyone tow in the 20,000 lb class with a single? I know your not legal, but just curious if anyone has had any issues with single rear wheel.

Thanks....I know I'll be getting another DRW, but if I can get the wife to scale down on the trailer size, maybe I can get a SRW instead.

[n0arp]

1jeep wrote:
Not true! My DRW has a different rear than a SRW and most importantly a different door tag. But hey do what you want it is your business, I know for me I feel better in a DRW and it has nothing to do with my driving experience or years towing.

Mine, being a GM, does not. They use the same AAM 11.5 with different ends to accommodate the difference in length. Bearing ratings are the exact same.

[lincster]

jshupe wrote:

tinner12002 wrote:

joebedford wrote:
@jshupe: you're right but we're looking at different numbers.

I assumed that rig would have a GVWR of 21K but it's only 19.5K so he's only 3500 over max tow rating.

Its just a matter of time before towing over your trucks rating will start to show up on equipment failures, tranny, rear axle or more. Those ratings are there for a reason, not just #s to look at and say ah those are just there for ***** and giggles. Everyone just needs to do what their pocketbook can afford and what they feel comfortable with.

-

*Rear axles on a dually have different hubs and deeper rotors on the end. Still an AAM 11.5 with identical gearing. AAM rates both for 10900#.
Identical engine (can be confirmed by replacement part #s)
- Identical transmission (can be confirmed by replacement part #s)
- Identical transfer case (can be confirmed by replacement part #s)
- Identical axles (can be confirmed by replacement part #s)*
- Identical brakes (can be confirmed by replacement part #s)
- Identical front suspension (can be confirmed by replacement part #s)
- Different wheels and tires**
- Different rear suspension***

**Wheels on my truck have a 4500# rating. Tires a 4950# rating. Factory had 3150#.
***My rear suspension has been completely upgraded to what is considered an upgrade for DRW trucks

What exact components are going to fail? Please tell me how my engine, transmission, and rear axle are suddenly going to fail due to a door sticker. I researched this meticulously, spending an enormous amount of time digging into parts diagrams, and have yet to find the answer. I'm well within the limits of a DRW but over the limits of a SRW. Limits that happen to be directly tied to only suspension and tires, it seems, both of which have been upgraded accordingly. The only advantage to a DRW for me at this time would be if I were getting anywhere close to the 9000# "weak link" of the wheels (4500# x2) for the RAW.

Identical engine (can be confirmed by replacement part #s) True
- Identical transmission (can be confirmed by replacement part #s) True
- Identical transfer case (can be confirmed by replacement part #s) True
- Identical axles (can be confirmed by replacement part #s)* Not True
- Identical brakes (can be confirmed by replacement part #s) Not True
- Identical front suspension (can be confirmed by replacement part #s)

Go to the body builder guide for Ford and you can find tables to support what I disagree with.

DRW gearing is 3.73. You can't get that on a SRW.

I am giving numbers for my 2012 Ford. I did a lot of research before I bought.
Other manufactures may differ, I am referring to Ford to dispute your claims.

[Bedlam]

jshupe wrote:

tinner12002 wrote:

joebedford wrote:
@jshupe: you're right but we're looking at different numbers.

I assumed that rig would have a GVWR of 21K but it's only 19.5K so he's only 3500 over max tow rating.

Its just a matter of time before towing over your trucks rating will start to show up on equipment failures, tranny, rear axle or more. Those ratings are there for a reason, not just #s to look at and say ah those are just there for ***** and giggles. Everyone just needs to do what their pocketbook can afford and what they feel comfortable with.

- Identical engine (can be confirmed by replacement part #s)
- Identical transmission (can be confirmed by replacement part #s)
- Identical transfer case (can be confirmed by replacement part #s)
- Identical axles (can be confirmed by replacement part #s)*
- Identical brakes (can be confirmed by replacement part #s)
- Identical front suspension (can be confirmed by replacement part #s)

*Rear axles on a dually have different hubs and deeper rotors on the end. Still an AAM 11.5 with identical gearing. AAM rates both for 10900#.

- Different wheels and tires**
- Different rear suspension***

**Wheels on my truck have a 4500# rating. Tires a 4950# rating. Factory had 3150#.
***My rear suspension has been completely upgraded to what is considered an upgrade for DRW trucks

What exact components are going to fail? Please tell me how my engine, transmission, and rear axle are suddenly going to fail due to a door sticker. I researched this meticulously, spending an enormous amount of time digging into parts diagrams, and have yet to find the answer. I'm well within the limits of a DRW but over the limits of a SRW. Limits that happen to be directly tied to only suspension and tires, it seems, both of which have been upgraded accordingly. The only advantage to a DRW for me at this time would be if I were getting anywhere close to the 9000# "weak link" of the wheels (4500# x2) for the RAW.

The doubt comes from people that do not have the due diligence to do this research. I did the same on my 2005 F250 to find the deltas between models and I closed or surpassed those deltas with my upgrades. Even after driving my Ram 5500 for two years with the same load I had on my F250, I cannot say that the old Ford was ever unstable or unsafe with 8000 lbs on the rear axle.

[1jeep]

Not true! My DRW has a different rear than a SRW and most importantly a different door tag. But hey do what you want it is your business, I know for me I feel better in a DRW and it has nothing to do with my driving experience or years towing.

[IdaD]

jshupe wrote:

tinner12002 wrote:

joebedford wrote:
@jshupe: you're right but we're looking at different numbers.

I assumed that rig would have a GVWR of 21K but it's only 19.5K so he's only 3500 over max tow rating.

Its just a matter of time before towing over your trucks rating will start to show up on equipment failures, tranny, rear axle or more. Those ratings are there for a reason, not just #s to look at and say ah those are just there for ***** and giggles. Everyone just needs to do what their pocketbook can afford and what they feel comfortable with.

- Identical engine (can be confirmed by replacement part #s)
- Identical transmission (can be confirmed by replacement part #s)
- Identical transfer case (can be confirmed by replacement part #s)
- Identical axles (can be confirmed by replacement part #s)*
- Identical brakes (can be confirmed by replacement part #s)
- Identical front suspension (can be confirmed by replacement part #s)

*Rear axles on a dually have different hubs and deeper rotors on the end. Still an AAM 11.5 with identical gearing. AAM rates both for 10900#.

- Different wheels and tires**
- Different rear suspension***

**Wheels on my truck have a 4500# rating. Tires a 4950# rating. Factory had 3150#.
***My rear suspension has been completely upgraded to what is considered an upgrade for DRW trucks

What exact components are going to fail? Please tell me how my engine, transmission, and rear axle are suddenly going to fail due to a door sticker. I researched this meticulously, spending an enormous amount of time digging into parts diagrams, and have yet to find the answer. I'm well within the limits of a DRW but over the limits of a SRW. Limits that happen to be directly tied to only suspension and tires, it seems, both of which have been upgraded accordingly. The only advantage to a DRW for me at this time would be if I were getting anywhere close to the 9000# "weak link" of the wheels (4500# x2) for the RAW.

But...payload sticker?

This is rv.net, not the real world. All that matters on rv.net is the payload sticker.

[n0arp]

tinner12002 wrote:

joebedford wrote:
@jshupe: you're right but we're looking at different numbers.

I assumed that rig would have a GVWR of 21K but it's only 19.5K so he's only 3500 over max tow rating.

Its just a matter of time before towing over your trucks rating will start to show up on equipment failures, tranny, rear axle or more. Those ratings are there for a reason, not just #s to look at and say ah those are just there for ***** and giggles. Everyone just needs to do what their pocketbook can afford and what they feel comfortable with.

- Identical engine (can be confirmed by replacement part #s)
- Identical transmission (can be confirmed by replacement part #s)
- Identical transfer case (can be confirmed by replacement part #s)
- Identical axles (can be confirmed by replacement part #s)*
- Identical brakes (can be confirmed by replacement part #s)
- Identical front suspension (can be confirmed by replacement part #s)

*Rear axles on a dually have different hubs and deeper rotors on the end. Still an AAM 11.5 with identical gearing. AAM rates both for 10900#.

- Different wheels and tires**
- Different rear suspension***

**Wheels on my truck have a 4500# rating. Tires a 4950# rating. Factory had 3150#.
***My rear suspension has been completely upgraded to what is considered an upgrade for DRW trucks

What exact components are going to fail? Please tell me how my engine, transmission, and rear axle are suddenly going to fail due to a door sticker. I researched this meticulously, spending an enormous amount of time digging into parts diagrams, and have yet to find the answer. I'm well within the limits of a DRW but over the limits of a SRW. Limits that happen to be directly tied to only suspension and tires, it seems, both of which have been upgraded accordingly. The only advantage to a DRW for me at this time would be if I were getting anywhere close to the 9000# "weak link" of the wheels (4500# x2) for the RAW.

[tinner12002]

joebedford wrote:
@jshupe: you're right but we're looking at different numbers.

I assumed that rig would have a GVWR of 21K but it's only 19.5K so he's only 3500 over max tow rating.

Its just a matter of time before towing over your trucks rating will start to show up on equipment failures, tranny, rear axle or more. Those ratings are there for a reason, not just #s to look at and say ah those are just there for ***** and giggles. Everyone just needs to do what their pocketbook can afford and what they feel comfortable with.

[lincster]

Where is the dead horse getting beat dedmiston???? LOL

[lawnspecialties]

The beginning. 1000+ lbs. overweight on that rear axle was even too much for me. But honestly, pulled like a champ and very stable. That '09 F350 had less sag than the 2011 F450 did.



The correction.



Today. Very, very happy with this set-up.

[lawnspecialties]

Lantley wrote:
I do not dispute anything you say. But I think if you tow your same rig with DRW vs. your SRW you will feel a noticeable improvement from the drivers seat

I actually agree to a point. Two campers ago, we had a 2011 F450 and a 43' Cyclone 370C. But when we bought the Cyclone, I had a 2009 F350 SRW. I only bought the F450 because the 370C had that extended nose and the pin put us a good 1000 lbs. overweight on the rear axle. But we had pulled the Cyclone with that F350 for well over 500 miles before I had them weighed. A dumb mistake on my part to weigh after the fact.

I know how both feel. Is there a difference? Some. But in all honesty (and my own opinion), not enough difference to make a difference. I could sell my F350 and get another dually if I wanted to. But for me, its just not worth the trouble considering the quality of the set-up I have. But I'm obviously not speaking for everyone.

[Lantley]

lawnspecialties wrote:
I'm going to say something that many will take as arrogant or condescending or whatever. But trust me when I say it is not meant in any of those manners. I do landscape maintenance and am also a full-time firefighter who drives the fire truck. I have a CDL class A and drove for five years one of those ten-wheeled rigs delivering Pepsi-Colas before I was a firefighter. I say this to point out I have been towing trailers for close to 30 years now. Probably 80% of the time I'm on the road these days, I'm pulling some kind of trailer.

I see all these posts mentioning "white knuckles", "uncomfortable", etc.. There is one factor that many of us SRW guys are probably thinking. If you are not very experienced, not comfortable, or maybe you just aren't as good as others pulling a trailer, a dually would certainly help with larger toy haulers. I don't get uncomfortable, have white knuckles, and I'm certainly no more tired after a long trip pulling my 43' toy hauler with my SRW F350 than if I was driving the wife's Kia Optima.

I'm sure some here will take offense and think I'm saying they aren't as good at pulling a camper than I am. That's not my point. But if you feel you have to have a dually truck to not experience the adjectives I mentioned above, well? I'm not talking about guys pulling 1000 lbs.+ over weight on the pin or something extreme. But I'm over on GCWR, sometimes slightly over on my RAWR, and at 43' long, sometimes I wish the camper was longer so I could fit more stuff in it.

If the shoe fits, put it on guys.

I do not dispute anything you say. But I think if you tow your same rig with DRW vs. your SRW you will feel a noticeable improvement from the drivers seat

[drittal]

My father is 73, has been driving trucks since before he had a license helping relatives farm. Class A with doubles/triples. Also licensed crane operator. He has hauled everywhere from Mexico to the North Slope hauling 1,000,000 lb rigs on the artic ocean.

He has a dually, even when he didn't have a big heavy 5er because he likes the stability. On that note, even though he has the truck to do it, he didn't buy a 45' TH when he was looking. He feels they are too long and too heavy for a pickup. You look at these loaded semi's going down the highway, most of them have more weight on the truck axles than the trailer, giving more control. Towing a 18k trailer with a 8k truck with only 3k going on the pin is, in his opinion, crazy.

[joebedford]

lincster wrote:
I own a dually so I am within all of my tow ratings.

Yeah, pretty much me too. There are so many things you can get away with most of the time that have very serious repercussions that 1 time in 1000 that don't make it worth it to me. Like insurance. Do I need a Class A license to drive my rig? No, but it's a legal requirement where I live and I don't want to have an accident where I'm not legal to drive my stuff. Insurance companies have whole departments to deny claims. Do I need a dually to haul my rig? Yes, but I could do it with a 3/4 ton. Repeat stuff about insurance companies...

[lincster]

I don't own a dually to make myself "feel better".
I own a dually so I am within all of my tow ratings.

I'm an Engineer so I understand the math behind determining why things are sized the way they are.

[JAC1982]

Having issues posting so no quotes, but responding to lawnspecialties.

This is a big part of it. My FIL owns an oil field hot shot company, towing very heavy gooseneck flatbed trailers (Big Tex and the like). Before that he worked in the oil fields driving their trucks/trailers. After a scary trip with our trailer, when we had the F150, he brought it back for us, along I-80 in Wyoming where it's very windy, with it just attached by the ball.... no WDH, sway bars, or anything. It was with a 2500 truck, so a difference there, but he drove it like it was nothing. Even when we had a 250, my husband was still pretty nervous, which then made me nervous, which then made for a stressful trip. Only now with the dually that he feels pretty comfortable towing our trailer, and TBH, that's one of the reasons we're going to upgrade to a 5th wheel, because they are easier to pull.

So yeah, someone should take into account their own experience when deciding what truck/trailer to buy. We learned our lesson and should have bought the bigger truck to start.