Fifth Wheel Shopping Advice

[S_B123]

Hey all.

Been a while since I posted anything here. Just looking for some input regarding the purchase of a new (and first) fifth wheel. Currently we are looking very seriously at a Grand Design Reflection 337RLS and a Cedar Creek Silverback 33IK. We tow with a Silverado 2500HD (4.10) rear.

Any feedback will be appreciated.

Thanks.

[otrfun]

S&B123 wrote:
I called GM and finally spoke with a live human being who could answer my question, I had to give my VIN # so the correct information could be accessed. I remained on hold for quite a while before he returned with the answer. We were on a recorded line and after being told all of my particular truck weight and payload specifications I asked specifically if the calculation included ALL occupants of the truck (5). The answer was YES. Of course this does not include hitch weight or anything else the owner or dealership may have added after delivery.

I have the date and time as well as the name of the person I spoke with. They also generate a service number for every call for reference. So please, if anyone has definitive information regarding occupant calculations to the contrary directly from GM message me with who you spoke with and when so I can call back with that information. I don't mean to start a rock throwing contest here but if you don't have direct information from GM I have to rely on what I was told.

Kudos for taking the time to get this info from GM. Granted, if they took your VIN then the data does carry a bit more credibility than a brochure or an online payload calculator.

However, if you want the truth, and nothing but the truth . . . if you want a number not based on any assumptions or possible misunderstanding . . . if you want a number you can bet you and your family's safety on, then weigh your truck, empty, at the nearest CAT scale. Subtract that number from the GVWR as noted on your truck's door jam sticker . . . this is your remaining realworld payload. Again, this payload number will easily trump what GM or anyone else has told you.

Good luck!

[RustyJC]

S&B123 wrote:
I called GM and finally spoke with a live human being who could answer my question, I had to give my VIN # so the correct information could be accessed. I remained on hold for quite a while before he returned with the answer. We were on a recorded line and after being told all of my particular truck weight and payload specifications I asked specifically if the calculation included ALL occupants of the truck (5). The answer was YES. Of course this does not include hitch weight or anything else the owner or dealership may have added after delivery.

I have the date and time as well as the name of the person I spoke with. They also generate a service number for every call for reference. So please, if anyone has definitive information regarding occupant calculations to the contrary directly from GM message me with who you spoke with and when so I can call back with that information. I don't mean to start a rock throwing contest here but if you don't have direct information from GM I have to rely on what I was told.

For your reading pleasure, I submit the following. Note reference after reference to ratings being determined using ONLY the weight of the base truck and driver.

https://www.chevrolet.com/content/dam/Chevrolet/northamerica/usa/nscwebsite/en/Home/Vehicles/Trucks%20and%20Vans/2016_Silverado_3500HD/Model_Overview/02_pdf/MY16_US_Trailering_Guide.pdf

Rusty

[CWSWine]

That is simple to prove since all you have to do is go to the nearest truck stop that has a scale with all people in it and the add in 200 lbs of hitch and get it weighted. Look at your door jam and find the Gross Vehicle Weight Rating (GVWR)and subtract the weight of truck and that will give you amount left over for pin weights. If really good information to know while shopping for 5er.

My yellow door tag had 3744 on it and my trucked weight in at 8220 lbs with a 11,500 (GVWR) which left me with a 3280 left over for the pin weight of the 5er (11,500 minus 8220 = 3280 payload). That is a B&W hitch, driver, full tank full, about 50 lbs of other stuff in the truck.

S&B123 wrote:
I called GM and finally spoke with a live human being who could answer my question, I had to give my VIN # so the correct information could be accessed. I remained on hold for quite a while before he returned with the answer. We were on a recorded line and after being told all of my particular truck weight and payload specifications I asked specifically if the calculation included ALL occupants of the truck (5). The answer was YES. Of course this does not include hitch weight or anything else the owner or dealership may have added after delivery.

I have the date and time as well as the name of the person I spoke with. They also generate a service number for every call for reference. So please, if anyone has definitive information regarding occupant calculations to the contrary directly from GM message me with who you spoke with and when so I can call back with that information. I don't mean to start a rock throwing contest here but if you don't have direct information from GM I have to rely on what I was told.

[S_B123]

I called GM and finally spoke with a live human being who could answer my question, I had to give my VIN # so the correct information could be accessed. I remained on hold for quite a while before he returned with the answer. We were on a recorded line and after being told all of my particular truck weight and payload specifications I asked specifically if the calculation included ALL occupants of the truck (5). The answer was YES. Of course this does not include hitch weight or anything else the owner or dealership may have added after delivery.

I have the date and time as well as the name of the person I spoke with. They also generate a service number for every call for reference. So please, if anyone has definitive information regarding occupant calculations to the contrary directly from GM message me with who you spoke with and when so I can call back with that information. I don't mean to start a rock throwing contest here but if you don't have direct information from GM I have to rely on what I was told.

[RustyJC]

Every manufacturer's ratings that I've ever seen rate payload capacity and trailer tow rating based on an empty truck with only a 150 pound driver. EVERY pound added over that 150 pound driver allowance for a heavier driver, passengers, cargo, accessories (including the 5th wheel hitch), etc. must be deducted from those ratings.

Rusty

[otrfun]

S&B123 wrote:

Me Again wrote:

S&B123 wrote:
Just an update.

After a lot more research trying to get info on the subject of payload and towing capacity, according to GM as of 2014 all payload stickers on the doors of their trucks include ALL occupants, 5 in my case with all full fluids including full tank of fuel. The posted 2910# on my truck is actual payload capacity "after" these items were factored in. Apparently prior to 2014 GM weighed their vehicles without full fluids and added options.

That being said we are looking at 5ers a bit less in the GVWR than the two I mentioned.

Thanks to everyone for your input on the subject.

I do not believe that is true about all occupants. It is a 150 pound driver only. The change they made was to use the actual trim level of the truck vs a stripper. Chris

Chris, I called GM and verified that on my 2016 truck the calculation includes all passengers (5) at 150lbs each.

Whether I'd take that as true or not depends on "who" at GM you spoke to. Unless it was a GM engineer IMO the answer is potentially suspect.

Anywhoser, regardless what GM or anybody here on rv.net says, if you really want to determine the realworld payload for your truck I'd suggest weighing your truck empty, with you on-board along with a full tank of fuel, at a nearby CAT scale. Subtract this weight from your truck's GVWR. The resultant number is your realworld remaining payload---more accurate and applicable than the yellow payload sticker on the door jam.

The yellow door jam payload sticker only reflects the remaining payload the day the truck left the assembly line, prior to being subjected to dirt, mud, rust, hitches, different tires/rims, over/underweight drivers/passengers, and modifications---known and unknown.

[S_B123]

Me Again wrote:

S&B123 wrote:
Just an update.

After a lot more research trying to get info on the subject of payload and towing capacity, according to GM as of 2014 all payload stickers on the doors of their trucks include ALL occupants, 5 in my case with all full fluids including full tank of fuel. The posted 2910# on my truck is actual payload capacity "after" these items were factored in. Apparently prior to 2014 GM weighed their vehicles without full fluids and added options.

That being said we are looking at 5ers a bit less in the GVWR than the two I mentioned.

Thanks to everyone for your input on the subject.

I do not believe that is true about all occupants. It is a 150 pound driver only. The change they made was to use the actual trim level of the truck vs a stripper. Chris

Chris, I called GM and verified that on my 2016 truck the calculation includes all passengers (5) at 150lbs each.

[Miss_Ellie1]

We just picked up our Cedar Creek (forgot which one it was) on Saturday and remember seeing a new 2015 Hathaway on the floor. It was at Reines RV in Manassas VA. They have a web site and I remember seeing the RV there but I think it was 38 ft. I am relatively new to this and we haven't taken our first trip yet but I remember liking that floorplan. Ours was also a 2015 new.

[laknox]

S&B123 wrote:
Just an update.

After a lot more research trying to get info on the subject of payload and towing capacity, according to GM as of 2014 all payload stickers on the doors of their trucks include ALL occupants, 5 in my case with all full fluids including full tank of fuel. The posted 2910# on my truck is actual payload capacity "after" these items were factored in. Apparently prior to 2014 GM weighed their vehicles without full fluids and added options.

That being said we are looking at 5ers a bit less in the GVWR than the two I mentioned.

Thanks to everyone for your input on the subject.

FWIW, some RV mfrs are doing something similar. They are showing a net CCC after that actual trailer is weighed, with full propane and one battery. Jayco, at least, also shows the weight of a full tank of fresh water, though it's not =weighed= with it, since that's a variable when towing.

Lyle

[Me_Again]

S&B123 wrote:
Just an update.

After a lot more research trying to get info on the subject of payload and towing capacity, according to GM as of 2014 all payload stickers on the doors of their trucks include ALL occupants, 5 in my case with all full fluids including full tank of fuel. The posted 2910# on my truck is actual payload capacity "after" these items were factored in. Apparently prior to 2014 GM weighed their vehicles without full fluids and added options.

That being said we are looking at 5ers a bit less in the GVWR than the two I mentioned.

Thanks to everyone for your input on the subject.

I do not believe that is true about all occupants. It is a 150 pound driver only. The change they made was to use the actual trim level of the truck vs a stripper. Chris

[S_B123]

Just an update.

After a lot more research trying to get info on the subject of payload and towing capacity, according to GM as of 2014 all payload stickers on the doors of their trucks include ALL occupants, 5 in my case with all full fluids including full tank of fuel. The posted 2910# on my truck is actual payload capacity "after" these items were factored in. Apparently prior to 2014 GM weighed their vehicles without full fluids and added options.

That being said we are looking at 5ers a bit less in the GVWR than the two I mentioned.

Thanks to everyone for your input on the subject.

[Old-Biscuit]

Me Again wrote:

S&B123 wrote:

Old-Biscuit wrote:
GO out to your truck
Open drivers door and look on door jam
Tire Data Sticker----Yellow with have cargo carrying capacity

PAYLOAD.

Also note the info.........All Occupants and cargo must not exceed XXXX lbs.

PAYLOAD.

Both of the 5vrs you are interested in have DRY pin weight of 2000# which means when they are loaded up camp ready the pin weight will be closer to 2800#

How much PAYLOAD is listed on that Yellow Sticker????

Got enough for that amount of WET pin weight after subtracting the weight of ALL occupants/cargo (stuff inside cab/hitch in bed)???

Thanks very much!!! Shows 2910#. Was able to find out that includes one 150lb driver and all fluids to full per GM.

Another number to look at closely is the rear GAWR.

Actual rear axle weight, plus hitch and things in the bed, plus pin weight needs to equal an amount less the rear GAWR.

Chris

And then look at trucks rear tire MAX Load Ratings at MAX PSI.

SO rear tires, rear axle and payload numbers

OP....
2910# Payload per door sticker
2800# Wet Pin weight of either of those 5th wheels you are contemplating (I tow 14K 5vr---actual pin wet is 3000#)

That only leaves 110# for occupants/stuff

RAWR...6200#
GVWR....9500# ???

Quickly running out of truck.....so need lighter trailer.
Check into ones that have a GVWR of 12K or less for happy towing.

Happy towing results in more towing which means more fun cause you go more often

(VS...I hate towing this)

[Aridon]

We are also looking at Grand Design among a bunch of the new toy haulers. Not sure what we're going to do yet but kicking around going back FT again.

[Crodad]

S&B123 wrote:
Hey all.

Been a while since I posted anything here. Just looking for some input regarding the purchase of a new (and first) fifth wheel. Currently we are looking very seriously at a Grand Design Reflection 337RLS and a Cedar Creek Silverback 33IK. We tow with a Silverado 2500HD (4.10) rear.

Any feedback will be appreciated.

Thanks.

Never pay the sticker price!! the price should be about $20,000 less than the sticker.

I bought a Cedar Creek Silverback 31RK. very nice unit. Just a couple of problems with traveling and the glassware, refrigerator and I had a drawer's bottom fall out (but it did have a cast iron pot in it).

And as you can see I'm pulling it with a F-250. I put some Timbrems on and have not looked back.