King pin weight

[DBECHEN]

Have some questions on trailer weight and pin weight. We have a 2007 GMC 2500HD short bed 4x4. Just weighed it today on a CAT scale. Was loaded ready to go with generators extra propane tanks and fuel. Here are the weights:
TV STEER AXLE - 4380
TV REAR AXLE - 3340
TOTAL TV WEIGHT - 7720
TV GCWR - 22000
TV GVWR - 9200
TV REAR GAWR - 6084
TV FRONT GAWR - 4800

TRAILER INFO: 2016 Artic Fox 27-5L

Weights with trailer attached
TV STEER AXLE - 4360
TV DRIVE AXLE - 5760
TRAILER AXLE - 10520

We have a 16K pullright super glide hitch.

Our trailer GVWR is 13400.

I guess my big question is are we overweight?
We want to tow safely and appreciate any constructive thoughts.

Thanks for helping.

[BarneyS]

Enough is enough! Thread closed.
Barney

[wing_zealot]

Hey CWSWine - You should get yourself a better lawyer (unless your lawyer was advising you about comercial use).

[SabreCanuck]

OOOOOOOOOOHHHHHH
MMMMMyyyyyyyyy
GGGGAAAAWWWDDD

Haven't been on here for 4 months, came back out of curiosity and it's the same dribble, same arguement, same keyboard lawyers...

Craziness.
See you again in 4 months.

[CWSWine]

This isn't word for word but this what my Lawyer and retired Judge explained to me..

I quoted this from the link below....

One of the smartest things we did was speak to our attorney before making a purchase. He informed us that exceeding any of the weight ratings of the RV or the tow vehicle was nothing more than a negligence lawsuit waiting to happen. If it's proven that you exceeded the manufacturer's ratings in any way, it can easily be argued that constitutes negligence on your part in the event of an accident. That can lead to problems ranging from very large settlement amounts to even the possibility of your insurance company refusing to pay the claim due to the negligence on your part. Simply put, don't exceed these weights under any circumstances.

The best way to look at it is to take each and every maximum rating and make sure you are under every one of them. Especially after you are loaded, fueled and ready to get on the road. Often, the only way to do this is to load up your rig and head for the nearest truck stop with a scale. Weighing your rig and understanding the weights you get are key to a safe outcome.

http://www.everything-about-rving.com/rv-weight.html


Note: The insurance claim in my state will be paid but the judge can rule for restitution where the insurance company gets repaid on the grounds of negligence on your part.

[CWSWine]

troubledwaters wrote:
Hey guy,
No. 1 - your link is all about a "Commercial Vehicle" and commercial use. We are not talking about a Commercial Vehicle. We are talking about non-commercial/recreational vehicle, big difference. (Remember what I said about opinions of lawyers without case law references to provide a basis in fact for their opinions?)

No. 2 - I never said anything about whether you should or should not exceed the GVWR of the vehicle. All I said is not against the law to exceed the GVWR of the vehicle. And don't confuse this with licensed weight (in some states), which is totally different.

No. 3 - You still haven't posted a link to a case of someone being successfully sued for exceeding their GVWR (non-commercial). I hazard a guess that this is because you can't find one. So find a case, prove me wrong.

Just get me access to case law and you see there is lot cases. You can't post links to the case law database and you have to be a real lawyer to access them. LOL I did my research and I stay under my GVWR including sitting down with a lawyer and retire judge. I have employees that depend on me to be in business to provide them a living I not going to risk on some forum lawyer that doesn't have any facts to back up it with.

None of the links I have post is all pertains to commercial trucks. Legal issues, GMC and towing guides are all non-commercial trucks and RVs.

I guess you one those that if on the internet it must true and if it isn't it can't be true. I hope you never have to find out if you or me was really right.

[troubledwaters]

Hey guy,
No. 1 - your link is all about a "Commercial Vehicle" and commercial use. We are not talking about a Commercial Vehicle. We are talking about non-commercial/recreational vehicle, big difference. (Remember what I said about opinions of lawyers without case law references to provide a basis in fact for their opinions?)

No. 2 - I never said anything about whether you should or should not exceed the GVWR of the vehicle. All I said is not against the law to exceed the GVWR of the vehicle. And don't confuse this with licensed weight (in some states), which is totally different.

No. 3 - You still haven't posted a link to a case of someone being successfully sued for exceeding their GVWR (non-commercial). I hazard a guess that this is because you can't find one. So find a case, prove me wrong.

[4x4ord]

I think part of all the confusion around enforcement of truck weights is due to the fact that RV guys falsely tend to assume that commercial truck weights are policed as a matter of public safety. Public safety is only a part of their concern....they want to see that the equipment is properly maintained with working lights and brakes. The main reason for commercial truck scales and weight enforcement is to protect the roads. The size of the tire footprint and spacing of the axles determines what a truck can carry on the road.........they don't care about your axle ratio, horsepower, suspension or strength of the frame..... if I want to wreck my truck that is my business, the police are there to ensure I don't wreck the public roads.

[CWSWine]

troubledwaters wrote:
I just looked back at your posts for the last year. You've been posting this carnival barker dribble for at least the last year. You've been called out and rebuked on this about 100 times by about 100 different people; some of them lawyers. And still you persist. When is enough, enough? Post a case or just give it up, you're wrong!

LOL - I have posted link after link not to exceed you GVWR and you can post one that says you can.. Another one "Just Believe Me but I don't have a creditable information but I know more than the truck manufactures because I know what I know and no one can tell me I don't know what I don't know." Here is a link from a lawyer that didn't get his degree and Holiday Inn Express.

Towing Liability for Overweight loads

Which links are incorrect - Maybe the one to GMC site - The legal site - or maybe the towing guilds - or - maybe you trucks user manual so which one can you prove that are incorrect information... LOL So which one of those references that vast knowledge says in totally incorrect?

[troubledwaters]

I just looked back at your posts for the last year. You've been posting this carnival barker dribble for at least the last year. You've been called out and rebuked on this about 100 times by about 100 different people; some of them lawyers. And still you persist. When is enough, enough? Post a case or just give it up, you're wrong!

[troubledwaters]

CWSWine wrote:

troubledwaters wrote:
It would seem after all these years if someone could be sued for operating a recreational/non-commercial vehicle over its GVWR, it would have been done by now. However, there has not ever been one case cited of where it occurred successfully. Like someone else said, you can be sued for picking your nose, that doesn't make it a successful court case. Gross Negligence is a high standard to prove.
I have read a lot of lawyers opinions about lots of things in my line of work. All reputable lawyer opinions come with citing of sections of law, case law, court decisions, etc. Any lawyer's opinion lacking such references is in my opinion, a waste of time reading.

I think you need to go down to local attorney office and have him do a search of case laws in his national database and you might change the FACTS that there hasn't been any lawsuits.

Why don't you save me a giant waste of my time and just give me one case? I'd rather you waste your time, then you waste my time. But I'm guessing you don't have anything that's why you'd rather send me on a wild goose chase. After all, you're the one proposing it has happened.

Last month I had my lawyer search for 700 hours and he couldn't find a single case - now it's your turn. Pretty simple for you to prove me wrong, Impossible for me to prove something has never happened.

[CWSWine]

troubledwaters wrote:
It would seem after all these years if someone could be sued for operating a recreational/non-commercial vehicle over its GVWR, it would have been done by now. However, there has not ever been one case cited of where it occurred successfully. Like someone else said, you can be sued for picking your nose, that doesn't make it a successful court case. Gross Negligence is a high standard to prove.
I have read a lot of lawyers opinions about lots of things in my line of work. All reputable lawyer opinions come with citing of sections of law, case law, court decisions, etc. Any lawyer's opinion lacking such references is in my opinion, a waste of time reading.

I think you need to go down to local attorney office and have him do a search of case laws in his national database and you might change the FACTS that there hasn't been any lawsuits.

[troubledwaters]

It would seem after all these years if someone could be sued for operating a recreational/non-commercial vehicle over its GVWR, it would have been done by now. However, there has not ever been one case cited of where it occurred successfully. Like someone else said, you can be sued for picking your nose, that doesn't make it a successful court case. Gross Negligence is a high standard to prove.
I have read a lot of lawyers opinions about lots of things in my line of work. All reputable lawyer opinions come with citing of sections of law, case law, court decisions, etc. Any lawyer's opinion lacking such references is in my opinion, a waste of time reading.

[CWSWine]

CWSWine wrote:

Old-Biscuit wrote:

CWSWine wrote:

Old-Biscuit wrote:

CWSWine wrote:


Ok, you say for warranty post a link to creditable site that says that not just take my word for it.

To start this I will post a creditable link to site that states not to exceed and even list what might happen if you do and this one from GMC own website.

Overloading your truck or SUV can carry severe consequences,

Now your turn for a link saying it just warranty and don't worry about exceed the GVWR....I believe people should have the facts but believe me because I say true isn't a fact.

You are asking me to prove a NEGATIVE

Your link is a MFGs Recommendation with 'What Ifs'

*Broken springs and suspension components due to excess weight That is from overloading the AXLE/SUSPENSION Components....something I do NOT recommend
*Brakes unable to stop the truck or SUV in a timely manner Once again..braking ability is based on AXLE Rating
Don't exceed axle ratings
*Transmission and other driveline components may overheat and sustain serious damage
Only issue that is related to GVWR and warranty coverage could be denied. Course that applies to engine tune programs etc
*Unusual suspension behavior, making the vehicle hard to control Once again..suspension is part of the Axle Rating.
Do NOT exceed Axle
*Tire temperatures rising to elevated levels, potentially leading to a blowout
Tire Load Rating and proper air pressures
Do Not exceed........Tire Load Ratings are typically Higher then Axle Ratings so you would have to overload axles in order to overload tires.
Under inflation causes heat build up and blow outs


Bye-Bye
Let your informed conscience be your guide

Come on --- GAWR are not mention in the entire write up on GMC site it only refers to only GVWR. How did you come with they are talking about GAWR that wasn't even mention.

You do know that the axle ratings on Class A with a GVWR 33,001 pounds (14,969 kg)+ is determinded by the axle ratings and are one in the same. The Class 8 truck manufacture has several axle weight options for the same truck and axles can even be replaced to increase the GVWR/Axle ratings. You also do know that a over weight citation for Class 8 trucks contains the this statement "GVW/GAWR was exceeded"

On a Class 8 truck with GVWR over 33,001 pounds (14,969 kg)+ the manufacture assigned GVWR is the sum of the GAWR but on Class 2 or 3 truck the manufacture GVWR is less than the GAWR? Could be the axles are not week link Class 2 and 3 and some other part of the truck and in Class 8 the axles are the week link?

[JIMNLIN]

Towing in excess of the vehicle manufacturer’s weight limits could not only prove dangerous, but could even be considered negligent. In the event of an accident with an overweight personal vehicle, you could be held responsible for higher awards in a lawsuit for damages to other people, vehicles or property.

Personal Vehicle Towing Liability for RV’ers

Now who do you want to believe is the question.....Forum Lawyer - Legal Orientated Website - Or do what I did, contract a local attorney for advice. Your Choice....

* This post was last edited 01/02/18 08:36pm by CWSWine * View edit history

A smart local attorney will do his case work and find out real quick why the mfg GVWR isn't used in any legal sense or could used in any civil court case.
Every LDT truck on the road pulling a trailer (rv and non rv) commercially is carrying weight above the truck mfg gvwr or its gvwr payload sticker. It would take a awful dumb lawyer to try and make a civil case against a truck owner/operator for carrying weight above the truck makers gvwr.
First thing he will find is a truck maker tells us "Front and rear GAWRs will, in all cases, sum to a number equal to or greater than the GVWR for the particular vehicle."
or
A truck maker shows two GVWR numbers (10k or 11.3k) for the same exact truck.
Just a couple of reason our commercial brothers and sisters LDT trucks operating on our roads 24/7 are carrying weight determined by axle/tires ...not the trucks GVWR.
Of course we are involved in accidents and we face civil lawsuits only if were over the trucks "LEGAL " load limits.

Oh yeah....when contacting a attorney forget the local lawyer and go to a lawyer that does trucking court cases...as I did when I was on the road towing for a living.

Over on trucking forums the gvwr/lawsuit question comes up once in a while usually by a newby operator. First responses are he has been reading to many rv forums.