Momentum 399TH

[tinner12002]

Going to the Momentum factory today to take a look at the 399TH and to see how its put together and to see how organized and clean their facility is. Will post my thoughts here in a couple days.

[Y-Guy]

[NC_Hauler]

fly-boy wrote:
Take it with whatever you want..I'm talking manufacturing the way it was meant to be done and the way it should be done, and the way ITIS done in places that take pride in what they do...You may be a certain age, but don't really understand all you think you do..I've worked for Ingersoll Rand, Hercules and Continental Automotive, covering 41 yrs of manufacturing as an Engineer, Production Supervisor, Machining Supervisor, Quality Supervisor and did many a training sessions with 5S, Lean Training and Ergonomics, and on..I know how it is "supposed" to be. 24/7, which is hours we worked in the above plants due to production demands...all companies being ISO compliant.....We couldn't make excuses as to why something was messy...it wasn't allowed..Your idea of manufacturing is WORLDS apart from real life for world leaders in manufacturing...but, believe what you want...go to a real manufacturing plant sometime, GM, BMW. Mercedes, heck, I'll walk you through my plant and THEN tell me about your idea of what a world class manufacturing plant should look like...ZERO NOK's being the set point.."Quality without compromise" being the creedo.

Well said. Many times when I will walk out into the plant the first thing that happens is one of the production managers will grab me very quickly and explain why something is on the floor... Large sheets of material needed to be separated and the bad stuff weeded out... Whatever.... Theres a good reason. They clean it all up before moving onto the next process and the supplier is sent pictures and we explain this won't happen again...

My feeling is that if I provide my team a clean and safe work environment I will get a better product and happier team. Its a win win.

If your plant is a **** show something is wrong and whats coming out of it is not what it should be. I wouldn't buy a trailer from a plant as described.

Thank you, It appears you know what I'm talking about in "real world" manufacturing processes.
Really never a "good excuse" for a mess.

By the way, you got an AWESOME looking Chevy:B

Jim

[NC_Hauler]

Daddy Bear wrote:
Sorry to have seemed to pushy and I am not in charge here nor do I wish to be. Again, I meant no disrespect, but felt defensive over our new GD momentum.

I did not state anything was wrong with ANY of GD's product...again, maybe you should re-read ALL my post..I was going to purchase a GD, but I opted for a dealer closer to me and also saved a little bit in the deal..I like GD...I got off on a manufacturing rant, because manufacturing has taken a big chuck out of my life...I lived it and started on about manufacturing practices, right and wrong..and I was talking ALL manufacturers...Understand, "I": probably would have gone with a GD if I did't have to travel so far to a dealer...It's on me..I hate seeing or hearing about "bad manufacturing processes", I'm an "old school" Engineer..can't help myself..I paid a compliment to GD, in my opinion, because I would have bought one...just don't condone bad manufacturing issues. It can reflect on the integrity and Quality of the company.

[fly-boy]

Take it with whatever you want..I'm talking manufacturing the way it was meant to be done and the way it should be done, and the way ITIS done in places that take pride in what they do...You may be a certain age, but don't really understand all you think you do..I've worked for Ingersoll Rand, Hercules and Continental Automotive, covering 41 yrs of manufacturing as an Engineer, Production Supervisor, Machining Supervisor, Quality Supervisor and did many a training sessions with 5S, Lean Training and Ergonomics, and on..I know how it is "supposed" to be. 24/7, which is hours we worked in the above plants due to production demands...all companies being ISO compliant.....We couldn't make excuses as to why something was messy...it wasn't allowed..Your idea of manufacturing is WORLDS apart from real life for world leaders in manufacturing...but, believe what you want...go to a real manufacturing plant sometime, GM, BMW. Mercedes, heck, I'll walk you through my plant and THEN tell me about your idea of what a world class manufacturing plant should look like...ZERO NOK's being the set point.."Quality without compromise" being the creedo.

Well said. Many times when I will walk out into the plant the first thing that happens is one of the production managers will grab me very quickly and explain why something is on the floor... Large sheets of material needed to be separated and the bad stuff weeded out... Whatever.... Theres a good reason. They clean it all up before moving onto the next process and the supplier is sent pictures and we explain this won't happen again...

My feeling is that if I provide my team a clean and safe work environment I will get a better product and happier team. Its a win win.

If your plant is a **** show something is wrong and whats coming out of it is not what it should be. I wouldn't buy a trailer from a plant as described.

[Daddy_Bear]

Sorry to have seemed to pushy and I am not in charge here nor do I wish to be. Again, I meant no disrespect, but felt defensive over our new GD momentum.

[NC_Hauler]

I didn't know you were in charge here.. I even stated earlier that I apologized for getting into manufacturing process... I'll let it go, but not because of your value-less comment which added zero to this thread.. You need to re-read my post before you rate judgement on how worthless it is


My opinions are based on a 43 years in manufacturing.. If several of you can't grasp that concept, it's your problem. Not mine.. I don't set around justifying any particular manufacturers manufacturing processes, be it automobiles, RV's, brakes, ABS, military ordinance or toilet paper... And again..I got off on the manufacturing process and apologized for it... It would have stopped there until several of you wanted to make silly excuses for something, it appears you know very little about.. If you ever want to tour a real manufacturing plant tat is a worldwide supplier, let me know, and I'll give you a tour of my plant... 5S, Lean Training and world class quality

[Daddy_Bear]

Agree w/Momentum RV. One mans opinion! Next guy or gal through may have a totally different perception. Time to move on.

[momentum_rv]

NC Hauler wrote:

momentum rv wrote:

Carrera man wrote:

NC Hauler wrote:

Carrera man wrote:
Been looking at all brands for a year. I mean really looking, crawling in and out of areas that most never look at. The Momentum has one of the best finish's. Not perfect but one of the best. Now add their truly great customer service and we'll be going with a 397th when we go full time in the next couple of months. The second bath has a Fantastic Fan in it. As for people running around during assembly I'm fine with it. When I had my contracting that's pretty much how you make money lol. Trailers are not cars. There's no moving assembly line. For the most part their still hand made. As was explained to me by a factory rep a few weeks ago, when a trailer is brought to their inspection facility and something is wrong, the crew or person responsible is brought there to correct it. You screw it up, you fix it. Causes a lot less screw ups in the future!

Speed and "chaotic does NOT equal "Quality, I don't care the brand....They didn't "BID" on a job like a contractor does..As an Engineer who has been in manufacturing for 41 years, Safety is first for the worker/company, then Quality...That equals Lean Training and 5S training...you save money when you don't have to repeat a process, and don't produce scrap.

The one that was supposed to make it right the first time, may not be able to fix his/her mistake...it happens...

The GD is a beautiful product,,,I'm just saying, clutter and chaos is a negative in manufacturing..I've crawled around, in and out of pop-ups, TT's and 5er's for 35 years or more, looking at things most others don't either, and it's been rare that I didn't find something messed up it ..may be OK with an RV,, but ZERO DEFECTS, and QUALITY WITHOUT COMPROMISE" is the key when manufacturing product that could be the difference in life and death... all manufacturing plant's should build their product with that attitude, then it would be extremely rare to read about a "badly manufactured product....something the consumer is paying their hard earned money for.

Sorry to have gotten off topic, I'm speaking to more about manufacturing process and company's that don't have good manufacturing processes, and we the consumer end up paying twice or more for the end product.

GD is a very good product, I teetered for months and months on whether to buy one, but ended up going more with location and price, so no knock on GD..but if I were a Supervisor there, I would want to promote a flow process so that when a prospective customer takes a tour thru the plant, they would be more impressed when leaving, and not leave doubting the manufacturing process ...guess I've lived it too long...I'm retiring in July at age 66:B

Didn't see that the OP said chaotic. Just was turned off by speed and a messy shop floor. I didn't grow up yesterday and I've been to many fabrications shops and when their going gun hoe sometimes a messy floor will happen. Most of the time they have someone to clean it up latter. It could have been that the person or crew for clean up didn't get to that station yet. I find in difficult to believe that they would allow factory tours in a "chaotic" factory so I'll take this entire posting with a grain of salt.

X2 peoples perception of what is happening will vary

ONLY IF they don't understand the manufacturing processes. ONLY will their perception vary if they don't know what they're looking at. Both one and the same..You only have to have one or two that had a bad tour before it hits a thread like this

To me, If a prospective customer is given a tour and the prospective customer walks away with doubt in their mind about purchasing the product being manufactured..Somewhere the manufacturing process, or leaders of the manufacturing process flow have failed...It's really basic common sense., and I really do understand and know manufacturing in companies that have excelled and grown in business, globally...or has just been a success for years, for decades...they lasted versus their competition.

Your problem is you have taken one mans account and run with it like it is your own. Time to let this one go.

[NC_Hauler]

momentum rv wrote:

Carrera man wrote:

NC Hauler wrote:

Carrera man wrote:
Been looking at all brands for a year. I mean really looking, crawling in and out of areas that most never look at. The Momentum has one of the best finish's. Not perfect but one of the best. Now add their truly great customer service and we'll be going with a 397th when we go full time in the next couple of months. The second bath has a Fantastic Fan in it. As for people running around during assembly I'm fine with it. When I had my contracting that's pretty much how you make money lol. Trailers are not cars. There's no moving assembly line. For the most part their still hand made. As was explained to me by a factory rep a few weeks ago, when a trailer is brought to their inspection facility and something is wrong, the crew or person responsible is brought there to correct it. You screw it up, you fix it. Causes a lot less screw ups in the future!

Speed and "chaotic does NOT equal "Quality, I don't care the brand....They didn't "BID" on a job like a contractor does..As an Engineer who has been in manufacturing for 41 years, Safety is first for the worker/company, then Quality...That equals Lean Training and 5S training...you save money when you don't have to repeat a process, and don't produce scrap.

The one that was supposed to make it right the first time, may not be able to fix his/her mistake...it happens...

The GD is a beautiful product,,,I'm just saying, clutter and chaos is a negative in manufacturing..I've crawled around, in and out of pop-ups, TT's and 5er's for 35 years or more, looking at things most others don't either, and it's been rare that I didn't find something messed up it ..may be OK with an RV,, but ZERO DEFECTS, and QUALITY WITHOUT COMPROMISE" is the key when manufacturing product that could be the difference in life and death... all manufacturing plant's should build their product with that attitude, then it would be extremely rare to read about a "badly manufactured product....something the consumer is paying their hard earned money for.

Sorry to have gotten off topic, I'm speaking to more about manufacturing process and company's that don't have good manufacturing processes, and we the consumer end up paying twice or more for the end product.

GD is a very good product, I teetered for months and months on whether to buy one, but ended up going more with location and price, so no knock on GD..but if I were a Supervisor there, I would want to promote a flow process so that when a prospective customer takes a tour thru the plant, they would be more impressed when leaving, and not leave doubting the manufacturing process ...guess I've lived it too long...I'm retiring in July at age 66:B

Didn't see that the OP said chaotic. Just was turned off by speed and a messy shop floor. I didn't grow up yesterday and I've been to many fabrications shops and when their going gun hoe sometimes a messy floor will happen. Most of the time they have someone to clean it up latter. It could have been that the person or crew for clean up didn't get to that station yet. I find in difficult to believe that they would allow factory tours in a "chaotic" factory so I'll take this entire posting with a grain of salt.

X2 peoples perception of what is happening will vary

ONLY IF they don't understand the manufacturing processes. ONLY will their perception vary if they don't know what they're looking at. Both one and the same..You only have to have one or two that had a bad tour before it hits a thread like this

To me, If a prospective customer is given a tour and the prospective customer walks away with doubt in their mind about purchasing the product being manufactured..Somewhere the manufacturing process, or leaders of the manufacturing process flow have failed...It's really basic common sense., and I really do understand and know manufacturing in companies that have excelled and grown in business, globally...or has just been a success for years, for decades...they lasted versus their competition.

[NC_Hauler]

Carrera man wrote:

NC Hauler wrote:

Carrera man wrote:
Been looking at all brands for a year. I mean really looking, crawling in and out of areas that most never look at. The Momentum has one of the best finish's. Not perfect but one of the best. Now add their truly great customer service and we'll be going with a 397th when we go full time in the next couple of months. The second bath has a Fantastic Fan in it. As for people running around during assembly I'm fine with it. When I had my contracting that's pretty much how you make money lol. Trailers are not cars. There's no moving assembly line. For the most part their still hand made. As was explained to me by a factory rep a few weeks ago, when a trailer is brought to their inspection facility and something is wrong, the crew or person responsible is brought there to correct it. You screw it up, you fix it. Causes a lot less screw ups in the future!

Speed and "chaotic does NOT equal "Quality, I don't care the brand....They didn't "BID" on a job like a contractor does..As an Engineer who has been in manufacturing for 41 years, Safety is first for the worker/company, then Quality...That equals Lean Training and 5S training...you save money when you don't have to repeat a process, and don't produce scrap.



The one that was supposed to make it right the first time, may not be able to fix his/her mistake...it happens...

The GD is a beautiful product,,,I'm just saying, clutter and chaos is a negative in manufacturing..I've crawled around, in and out of pop-ups, TT's and 5er's for 35 years or more, looking at things most others don't either, and it's been rare that I didn't find something messed up it ..may be OK with an RV,, but ZERO DEFECTS, and QUALITY WITHOUT COMPROMISE" is the key when manufacturing product that could be the difference in life and death... all manufacturing plant's should build their product with that attitude, then it would be extremely rare to read about a "badly manufactured product....something the consumer is paying their hard earned money for.

Sorry to have gotten off topic, I'm speaking to more about manufacturing process and company's that don't have good manufacturing processes, and we the consumer end up paying twice or more for the end product.

GD is a very good product, I teetered for months and months on whether to buy one, but ended up going more with location and price, so no knock on GD..but if I were a Supervisor there, I would want to promote a flow process so that when a prospective customer takes a tour thru the plant, they would be more impressed when leaving, and not leave doubting the manufacturing process ...guess I've lived it too long...I'm retiring in July at age 66:B

Didn't see that the OP said chaotic. Just was turned off by speed and a messy shop floor. I didn't grow up yesterday and I've been to many fabrications shops and when their going gun hoe sometimes a messy floor will happen. Most of the time they have someone to clean it up latter. It could have been that the person or crew for clean up didn't get to that station yet. I find in difficult to believe that they would allow factory tours in a "chaotic" factory so I'll take this entire posting with a grain of salt.

Take it with whatever you want..I'm talking manufacturing the way it was meant to be done and the way it should be done, and the way ITIS done in places that take pride in what they do...You may be a certain age, but don't really understand all you think you do..I've worked for Ingersoll Rand, Hercules and Continental Automotive, covering 41 yrs of manufacturing as an Engineer, Production Supervisor, Machining Supervisor, Quality Supervisor and did many a training sessions with 5S, Lean Training and Ergonomics, and on..I know how it is "supposed" to be. 24/7, which is hours we worked in the above plants due to production demands...all companies being ISO compliant.....We couldn't make excuses as to why something was messy...it wasn't allowed..Your idea of manufacturing is WORLDS apart from real life for world leaders in manufacturing...but, believe what you want...go to a real manufacturing plant sometime, GM, BMW. Mercedes, heck, I'll walk you through my plant and THEN tell me about your idea of what a world class manufacturing plant should look like...ZERO NOK's being the set point.."Quality without compromise" being the creedo.

[momentum_rv]

Carrera man wrote:

NC Hauler wrote:

Carrera man wrote:
Been looking at all brands for a year. I mean really looking, crawling in and out of areas that most never look at. The Momentum has one of the best finish's. Not perfect but one of the best. Now add their truly great customer service and we'll be going with a 397th when we go full time in the next couple of months. The second bath has a Fantastic Fan in it. As for people running around during assembly I'm fine with it. When I had my contracting that's pretty much how you make money lol. Trailers are not cars. There's no moving assembly line. For the most part their still hand made. As was explained to me by a factory rep a few weeks ago, when a trailer is brought to their inspection facility and something is wrong, the crew or person responsible is brought there to correct it. You screw it up, you fix it. Causes a lot less screw ups in the future!

Speed and "chaotic does NOT equal "Quality, I don't care the brand....They didn't "BID" on a job like a contractor does..As an Engineer who has been in manufacturing for 41 years, Safety is first for the worker/company, then Quality...That equals Lean Training and 5S training...you save money when you don't have to repeat a process, and don't produce scrap.

The one that was supposed to make it right the first time, may not be able to fix his/her mistake...it happens...

The GD is a beautiful product,,,I'm just saying, clutter and chaos is a negative in manufacturing..I've crawled around, in and out of pop-ups, TT's and 5er's for 35 years or more, looking at things most others don't either, and it's been rare that I didn't find something messed up it ..may be OK with an RV,, but ZERO DEFECTS, and QUALITY WITHOUT COMPROMISE" is the key when manufacturing product that could be the difference in life and death... all manufacturing plant's should build their product with that attitude, then it would be extremely rare to read about a "badly manufactured product....something the consumer is paying their hard earned money for.

Sorry to have gotten off topic, I'm speaking to more about manufacturing process and company's that don't have good manufacturing processes, and we the consumer end up paying twice or more for the end product.

GD is a very good product, I teetered for months and months on whether to buy one, but ended up going more with location and price, so no knock on GD..but if I were a Supervisor there, I would want to promote a flow process so that when a prospective customer takes a tour thru the plant, they would be more impressed when leaving, and not leave doubting the manufacturing process ...guess I've lived it too long...I'm retiring in July at age 66:B

Didn't see that the OP said chaotic. Just was turned off by speed and a messy shop floor. I didn't grow up yesterday and I've been to many fabrications shops and when their going gun hoe sometimes a messy floor will happen. Most of the time they have someone to clean it up latter. It could have been that the person or crew for clean up didn't get to that station yet. I find in difficult to believe that they would allow factory tours in a "chaotic" factory so I'll take this entire posting with a grain of salt.

X2 peoples perception of what is happening will vary

[Carrera_man]

NC Hauler wrote:

Carrera man wrote:
Been looking at all brands for a year. I mean really looking, crawling in and out of areas that most never look at. The Momentum has one of the best finish's. Not perfect but one of the best. Now add their truly great customer service and we'll be going with a 397th when we go full time in the next couple of months. The second bath has a Fantastic Fan in it. As for people running around during assembly I'm fine with it. When I had my contracting that's pretty much how you make money lol. Trailers are not cars. There's no moving assembly line. For the most part their still hand made. As was explained to me by a factory rep a few weeks ago, when a trailer is brought to their inspection facility and something is wrong, the crew or person responsible is brought there to correct it. You screw it up, you fix it. Causes a lot less screw ups in the future!

Speed and "chaotic does NOT equal "Quality, I don't care the brand....They didn't "BID" on a job like a contractor does..As an Engineer who has been in manufacturing for 41 years, Safety is first for the worker/company, then Quality...That equals Lean Training and 5S training...you save money when you don't have to repeat a process, and don't produce scrap.

The one that was supposed to make it right the first time, may not be able to fix his/her mistake...it happens...

The GD is a beautiful product,,,I'm just saying, clutter and chaos is a negative in manufacturing..I've crawled around, in and out of pop-ups, TT's and 5er's for 35 years or more, looking at things most others don't either, and it's been rare that I didn't find something messed up it ..may be OK with an RV,, but ZERO DEFECTS, and QUALITY WITHOUT COMPROMISE" is the key when manufacturing product that could be the difference in life and death... all manufacturing plant's should build their product with that attitude, then it would be extremely rare to read about a "badly manufactured product....something the consumer is paying their hard earned money for.

Sorry to have gotten off topic, I'm speaking to more about manufacturing process and company's that don't have good manufacturing processes, and we the consumer end up paying twice or more for the end product.

GD is a very good product, I teetered for months and months on whether to buy one, but ended up going more with location and price, so no knock on GD..but if I were a Supervisor there, I would want to promote a flow process so that when a prospective customer takes a tour thru the plant, they would be more impressed when leaving, and not leave doubting the manufacturing process ...guess I've lived it too long...I'm retiring in July at age 66:B

Didn't see that the OP said chaotic. Just was turned off by speed and a messy shop floor. I didn't grow up yesterday and I've been to many fabrications shops and when their going gun hoe sometimes a messy floor will happen. Most of the time they have someone to clean it up latter. It could have been that the person or crew for clean up didn't get to that station yet. I find in difficult to believe that they would allow factory tours in a "chaotic" factory so I'll take this entire posting with a grain of salt.

[tinner12002]

Carrera man wrote:
Been looking at all brands for a year. I mean really looking, crawling in and out of areas that most never look at. The Momentum has one of the best finish's. Not perfect but one of the best. Now add their truly great customer service and we'll be going with a 397th when we go full time in the next couple of months. The second bath has a Fantastic Fan in it. As for people running around during assembly I'm fine with it. When I had my contracting that's pretty much how you make money lol. Trailers are not cars. There's no moving assembly line. For the most part their still hand made. As was explained to me by a factory rep a few weeks ago, when a trailer is brought to their inspection facility and something is wrong, the crew or person responsible is brought there to correct it. You screw it up, you fix it. Causes a lot less screw ups in the future!

I hadn't looked at the 397 but I suspect the only reason it has a fan is because of the shower...I feel they should have fans in the 1/2 baths as well, that's what I was referring to but if they can do it for one then they should be able to do it on all of them, shower or not. Even a small sidewall fan would work.

[NC_Hauler]

Carrera man wrote:
Been looking at all brands for a year. I mean really looking, crawling in and out of areas that most never look at. The Momentum has one of the best finish's. Not perfect but one of the best. Now add their truly great customer service and we'll be going with a 397th when we go full time in the next couple of months. The second bath has a Fantastic Fan in it. As for people running around during assembly I'm fine with it. When I had my contracting that's pretty much how you make money lol. Trailers are not cars. There's no moving assembly line. For the most part their still hand made. As was explained to me by a factory rep a few weeks ago, when a trailer is brought to their inspection facility and something is wrong, the crew or person responsible is brought there to correct it. You screw it up, you fix it. Causes a lot less screw ups in the future!

Speed and "chaotic does NOT equal "Quality, I don't care the brand....They didn't "BID" on a job like a contractor does..As an Engineer who has been in manufacturing for 41 years, Safety is first for the worker/company, then Quality...That equals Lean Training and 5S training...you save money when you don't have to repeat a process, and don't produce scrap.

The one that was supposed to make it right the first time, may not be able to fix his/her mistake...it happens...

The GD is a beautiful product,,,I'm just saying, clutter and chaos is a negative in manufacturing..I've crawled around, in and out of pop-ups, TT's and 5er's for 35 years or more, looking at things most others don't either, and it's been rare that I didn't find something messed up it ..may be OK with an RV,, but ZERO DEFECTS, and QUALITY WITHOUT COMPROMISE" is the key when manufacturing product that could be the difference in life and death... all manufacturing plant's should build their product with that attitude, then it would be extremely rare to read about a "badly manufactured product....something the consumer is paying their hard earned money for.

Sorry to have gotten off topic, I'm speaking to more about manufacturing process and company's that don't have good manufacturing processes, and we the consumer end up paying twice or more for the end product.

GD is a very good product, I teetered for months and months on whether to buy one, but ended up going more with location and price, so no knock on GD..but if I were a Supervisor there, I would want to promote a flow process so that when a prospective customer takes a tour thru the plant, they would be more impressed when leaving, and not leave doubting the manufacturing process ...guess I've lived it too long...I'm retiring in July at age 66:B