newbie who would appreciate some advice

[dustycoyote]

Hello to everyone,

first timer getting ready to buy a camper.

Have done lots of research, won't bore you with the details but let me give you the short short version...

Would like to get a camper for family time with wife, three little kids, and the greatest dog to every pee on a shrub. Primarily weekend escapes to nature across Utah, Idaho, Wyoming area. Would plan for some longer trips but not the primary intent.

The image originally in my head was the 1960's era "breadloaf" camper that I grew up with. Months of talking to friends with campers and many helpful forum members across the web have led me to change my vision....

I am now looking at a toy hauler fifth wheel. Primarily becuase everyone I talked to ended up moving up from smaller campers to larger ones and ended up with what I'm considering now. The toy hauler is becuase we will want to get toys later, but for now it's a separate, child proof, area that will keep my wife sane (and seems to be a better and more flexible option than a bunkhouse).
In preparation I've already purchased a 2011 2500 duramax and an Andersen Ultimate fifth Wheel Hitch.

SOOOOOO,
I am still really concerned about the size of the potential camper because of both pulling it around and the limits it will impose on where we can go with it. I would like to ask the forum members for advice and thoughts around this.

I've pretty much decided on going with one of two models (Though, would be very willing to look at others if someone had a suggestion that fit in the same price bracket);

(Forest River) Palomino Puma Unleashed 351THSS (aluminum siding, only 12 feet tall, 37 feet long, great reliability and build quality reviews)

(Heartland)Torque TQ325SS (fiberglass siding, 13'3" tall, 38'7" long, have heard good things about it, seems to be reliable and good quality)

My wife and I don't need anything super luxurious and were originally attracted to the PUMA because it is priced really well for what you get and had such good reviews from owners. It also has the old school U-shaped couch around a dinette that we really like.
After pricing it out with a generator and adding the Happijack opposing couches elevator bed option, it started to be not such a fantastic discount from other brands and models however.

That's how we ended up looking at the Torque. For about 6 to 7K more than the PUma, we could get the Torque, which seems to be a much nicer camper. It seems to have a nicer interior, includes two extra slides, and even has a second bathroom.

So this is where my questions come in.

Any recommendations between the two models?

I'm really concerned about size. Id love to go smaller if possible. Should the extra foot and a half of the Torque concern me? what about the extra height? at a foot and a falf taller, will this be much more inconvenient than the PUma?

How much extra pin weight should I plan on when I load the camper up? if I load it evenly front to back, will it affect pin weight at all?

Also,
Any thoughts on new vs used would be appreciated. I have so far been committed to buying new as I want something fairly new anyway and don't want to inherit someones camper that has serious problems.


thanks for any help. I'm sure I'll have more questions in the future.

Best Regards,

[dustycoyote]

On that last comment... Meant that the actual rear axle weight being 3K is a best guess. The CAT scale numbers are direct from the scale reports...

[dustycoyote]

Still just a best guess but here are some real world numbers from the CAT scale.

I believe that my rear axle weight (unhitched truck with me and a dog in it, half a tank of gas, if I remember correctly) was about 3K.

Published pin weight of the trailer online is 3066 lbs. I have the Onan 5500 installed on mine though so I recognize it would be higher than the published number.

My actual weights from the scales;


new camper, no stuff loaded up yet,

Steer axle - 4620

Drive axle - 6380

Trailer axle - 9700



camper loaded up including an ATV in back & 1/4 tank of fresh,

Steer axle - 4660

Drive axle - 6300

Trailer axle - 11300

My tire ratings on my truck are 6396 lbs for either axle, so I'm getting pretty close to maxing my tire ratings... Concerned to see what the pin weight is if I travel with full fresh tank. Most on the forums have said that it shouldn't add a lot to the pin weight because it sits close to the trailer axle though, Will have to check next time I plan to dry camp.

[IDoMyOwnStunts]

As far as a full tank adding to your pin, it really depends on where the tank is. Granted, mine is a bumper pull, but the freshwater tank is directly over the axles and does nothing to the tongue empty or full. If your tank is close to or over your axles, it won't change your pin weight noticeably. That said, if you dry camp and your grey/black are forward of your axles, you'll be shifting a lot of water and could end up with a heavier pin leaving than you came in with. Just dump as soon as you can in that case.

Because axles are so far back on toy most toy haulers, loading things close to the front tends to have a greater effect on the pin weight than on non-toy haulers. Move some of that load to the garage if you want to reduce your pin weight. With only a couple of atvs, you should have plenty of room to pack in beverages (I take lots of extra water with me) and gear around them. The only hassle is moving it once you set up to camp. Also, if your fuel tank is behind your axles, fill that before you go.

Remember, though, it's not a direct 1 to 1 weight gain of stuff in the garage to weight loss on the pin. It's more like a 5 to 1 or even 10 to 1 dependent upon your axle placement.

Good luck! Glad you are enjoying your hauler.

[Happy_Prospecto]

I would think either trailer should work well for you besides what could possibly go wrong?


The information is out there, all you have to do is let it in.

[dustycoyote]

FrankandBeans,

I haven't weighed it since we last took it out in the fall, and I can't remember what it was then. I'll have to look at post it here when we get out again.

I will say that it was heavier than I expected. I'm concerned about it since I'm pulling with a 3/4 ton. The truck has handled it like it was pulling much smaller load. Very stable and power for days. The integrated exhaust brake on the truck and the mechanical brakes on the truck and trailer have all been fantastic and have never seemed stressed, but..... I keep looking for ways to reduce the pin lbs to get closer to my trucks spec.

I bought a 4 wheeler to put in back and that didn't seem to change it much. I've pulled with a full tank of fresh and am assuming that the water added to my pin weight, though I don't really know for sure.

either way, I'll try to post here again when I measure it the next time.

[Frankandbeans]

What's your pin weight, and was the toy hauler empty/loaded/full tanks, etc? I'm always interested to see the real world numbers from different people.

[dustycoyote]

I know its been quite a while but just wanted to respond to the thread and tell everyone thanks again for all of the help.

I ended up going with a Carbon 357 toyhauler and we've loved it. Bought it in August last year.
Great decision as far as accomodating the family and enjoying the camping experience. Still don't love the size and it's a big pain to pull but we've been able to go plenty of neat places in it.

It has an even heavier pin weight than the Torque we were considering but the truck seems to pull it like a champ. No towing issues at all. Still worry about it. I bought an ATV to help add weight behind the rear axle and pull some weight off of the pin. Even with the ATV though, the pin weight is higher than I expected. I'll buy a second one in another couple of months to help the pin weight even more.

Regardless, thanks again to everyone!

Happy camping!

[rmoore0852]

davidbow43 and dustycoyote, remember that pin weight is different than what you traditionally think of as payload capacity. Most think that a 3/4 ton truck is good for 1500 lbs of payload. Not so with a frame hitch like a 5th wheel or gooseneck. I have a 2006 Chevrolet 2500 Duramax. My owners manual states up to 3,300 lbs pin weight on a frame hitch. Now I do think that is a lot of weight, but my Puma 356 has around 2000 on the pin and only squats the truck by about 2". When I bought the trailer I completely expected to have to put airbags on the truck to level it, but so far it doesn't need it at all. Pulls great with an autoslide hitch. Keep your trailer weight and max combined weights in mind though. 5th wheel toy haulers are heavy and total weight can run right up near the max combined weight rating of a 3/4 ton. My Puma 356 is 10,600 when partially loaded. Per the manual, my max trailer weight is 12,000 and max combined weight is 22,000. I'm at 18,380 combined weight right now.

[buddyIam]

If you camp where you will need air conditioning. It's going to cost 100 dollars in fuel for your generator to power a 13000 btu air condition. That's at today's prices. Last summer it was 200 dollars at the drag races.
Not a deal breaker occasipnally. But food for thought.

[buddyIam]

A bumper pull over 27 feet really limits access to the Sierras in California.
Your area maybe different.

[ThomasFour]

Adding if you are thinking of a Bumper Pull check out the Amped 32GS. I was pretty impressed with the floorplan and looks.. It's a bumper pull but seems more like a Fiver floorplan..
=======

I have been stalking posts about 5th wheel THs and 3/4 ton trucks for quite some time. We have been looking to upgrade from our 23' Sandstorm, but not at the risk of over-loading my truck. I thought a 5th wheel was definitely my next trailer, but I am glad I did some reading before pursuing it too far. After reading this post about the Amped 32GS, we took a look at one today - VERY NICE! The weight seems reasonable and within specifications for my 08 GMC 2500 HD Diesel crew cab. I would be interested to hear from anyone who has experience with the 32GS. Thanks, Greg

[mackyb]

dustycoyote,
Yes the Spartan 1032 is a higher priced model than the Torque. I also looked and considered the Torque last summer before buying the 1032. The Spartan has not disappointed me at all. What really won me over was the 6 point auto leveling system that takes all of the work out of leveling unless we are on very un-level ground. The only weak area of the Spartan is the 12 volt batteries that the dealer put in it and the Towmax (sometimes referred to as Blowmax) E rated tires. I have since added much better batteries with a solar array plus inverter and charge controller to take care of my electrical needs. As for tires, that too will be changing soon to G rated tires. It seems with all RV's there is a never ending list of accessories to buy to make the camping experience that much better.

[davidbow43]

Don't worry about the details. If you can afford to go all out then get what pleases you. If you have to count pennies then do so. Main thing is make sure this is what your family would like to do. have you all been camping before? I only had two kids and we were so busy with sports during the summer we only went camping once. We did the conventional tent camping. Maybe if we would have done trailer camping we might have gone again. Id start out small and work your way up. But thats just me. Now that the kids are grown and out of the house we go trailer camping as much as possible and i will upgrade to a TH in a year or two. Good Luck! And enjoy the great outdoors!
My next one will be a Road Warrior 420. It has 2 slide outs and a curbside patio with awning.
I'll have to upgrade my truck to accommodate the weight. Just be sure not to buy a camper that your current truck can't handle.
And you are right on with choosing 5th wheel. I wouldn't consider a bumper pull either. the 5th wheel handles so much better. My current one is 32 foot and my truck doesn't even know its back there. 06 dodge 3/4HD with 5.9 cummins. When i do get my TH I will convert the rear axle to duallys to accommodate the 3100# pin weight.
And as far as parks go they usually will have some pull thrus so you don't have to worry. Just research the places you go first. We always ride our motorcycle to the park first and check it out before we book or head their. Some parks take reservations and some its first come first serve.

[Bedlam]

Unless you have an inverter, you will not be able to use AC voltage appliances while running on battery. If you do have an inverter, you will not have sufficient battery capacity to run the air conditioner.