Transitioning to 1st Fifth Wheel

[orggardn]

Well, retirement is almost upon me (December if all goes well) and we're looking hard at a 5th wheel and a new tow rig to start things off right. Problem is, I'm not sure how to get started. I've towed multiple popups and a travel travel (+ tons of farm implements), never anything with an in bed hitch.

The big question is - "is there a good place to get educated on how to get started in the 5th wheel world?"

We've pick out a fiver, but need to know:
- how to match a tow vehicle to it
- how to select a hitch
- how to tow the darn thing (this really has me a bit skittish)

We're planning several "local" outings to get used to the rig and shake out some of the initial bugs. Then, head out for a couple of 4-6 week explorations.

FYI, specs for the unit we've picked out:
SHIPPING WEIGHT: 7035 LBS
CARRYING CAPACITY: 2965 LBS
HITCH: 1405 LBS
LENGTH: 28'11"
HEIGHT: 11'11"

I'd appreciate your pointing me in the right direction. I'm a good reader and a quick learner.......

[troubledwaters]

ChuckV1 wrote:
I disagree on a couple of points, to me you have more room to maneuver because you hitch is over your axle and not on your bumper, thus you have the ability for a shorter turn radios.

Not sure if you realize this, but a shorter radius means you have a higher potential to run up and over the curb. A longer radius means you have less potential to run over the curb. That would seem to me to give you less room to maneuver. Just my opinion.

In real life it's not such a straightforward comparison between a TT and 5er of comparable lengths. The pivot point is in a different location, the wheelbase from pivot point to axle aren't the same, the track the pivot points takes around a corner is different, the weight for a rear living room vs. mid LR may mean the axle has to be further back to get the proper tongue/ pin weight, etc, etc, etc. All in all, this whole discussion relative to shorter and longer (best and worse) is all magic smoke and two way mirrors.

[ChuckV1]

mrw8i wrote:
5th wheel tows different than a bumper pull. I find 5th wheel is easier on the highway, less affected by wind and other vehicles. However, when making turns, going around corners, curbs, obstacles, you have to keep in mind the 5th wheel will off track (cut the corners) a lot more than a bumper pull.

Backing up has taken me a while to learn with the 5th wheel as compared to a bumper pull. A bumper pull will react much quicker to your steering wheel. A 5th wheel takes longer to react. You need to learn to follow the 5th wheel as it starts to turn.

The above is amplified if your tow vehicle is long. Compare a crew cab long bed to a short bed non-crew cab. The difference in total length of the vehicle can be more than 4 feet. That means different turning radius of the tow vehicle. Mine is a crew cab long bed, so the 5th wheel takes longer to react when I turn the steering wheel. I also have less room to maneuver the truck as I back up (think about a road and backing into a driveway), I have less room in the road with my long truck as I make the turn into the driveway while backing.

I watch the tires of my trailer on the inner curve as I backup, trying to line them up with a spot in the curve (typically the corner of the driveway and road I'm trying to back into). My spotter is there for one reason, don't let me hit anything. I get out and look at least 2x every time I backup.

While backing you will find your tow vehicle will swing out further into the road or other side of the road, then when backing a bumper pull.

I find I need to pull further ahead ( a lot further) than a bumper pull, before backing and turning into a spot.

Watch lots of videos of people backing up. Truck drivers backing up their rigs (they have the advantage of much tighter turning radius than many of our pickups so can easily straighten up their tow vehicle with the trailer, where for me it's a lot harder). Quite often when I backup the 5th wheel, I'll have to stop and go back and forth a couple of feet, maybe multiple times to get my tow vehicle lined up with my trailer for the final back into the spot.

If you are way off backing up, start over.

Practice, practice, practice . . .

I disagree on a couple of points, to me you have more room to maneuver because you hitch is over your axle and not on your bumper, thus you have the ability for a shorter turn radios.

Also like I have to disagree about comment about semi and pickups, semi trucks with single axles turn the same as your pickup, semi's with tandem axles have the 5th wheel centered between the two axles and if you would measure the distance from the rear frame to their 5th wheel it is about the same as what it is from the rear of your TV unless short bed to your 5th wheel...

The slower reaction backing makes a 5th far better to back than a TT by far, thus you have time to react. The only thing you have to look out for is the tail swing an as stated when turn a corner the tracking, 5th wheel will track far shorter than a bumper pull thus you swing wider when going around a corner...

When teaching semi drivers I would tell them to take up to a third of the intersection and then turn into the lane when making right hand turns, when making left hand turns I would tell them to go across the complete intersection almost to the other side and then turn to their left an into the lane while watching in the mirror to make sure they cleared the oncoming traffic in that lane ...

As someone said, go to a large parking lot, put out some cones and practice backing an truning around corners...

Some but not all RV dealer have people that can teach you how to drive/pull your 5th wheel... Also there are truck driving schools that have instructors that will hire out to teach owner of 5th wheel how to drive ...

Be safe above all

[smerar]

When we recently decided to become full timers, we had no experience towing a large trailer. In fact,I had never even driven a pickup truck. We researched for 6 years, and last summer we pulled the trigger on a 2016 RAM 3500 diesel dually long bed, and a 2017 Landmark 365 Newport (42 feet long and 16K GVW)

We engaged the services of an RV Safety Training company located in York PA (RVSafeT), for a 2 day RV training program.

He met us at the dealership, and proceeded to show both my wife and I how to drive the rig. Had us parallel parking our 60 foot rig into a 75 foot spot on the first day! Second day was highway driving, backing into a parking spot, truck stop etiquette, driving around small towns, and more.

He also offered a class in General RV topics and can assist with your PDI and anything RV related. Although we didn't sign up for that class, he was very helpful in getting us situated in our RV. His rates were very reasonable and the training was outstanding. (About $700 for the 2 day class for both of us)

Bottom line: If you are concerned about how to do anything with your RV regardless of type, you can get professional training.

[Jbird]

Ive been pulling a large fifth wheel for 19 years and never seen anybody say it any better than mrw's above post.

[orggardn]

Thanks to all for the points to ponder and the advice.

I had planned a 3/4 ton, though I must say, had not considered a 1T. I figure there's hardly any way to have "too much" truck (and we do plan some excursions through the mountains at some point). I'll look at those.

The backing / turning / driving - you've reaffirmed what I've heard from others. Once you go to a 5th wheel, you'll love it. There's a local community college with a nice parking lot, where I took the TT when we first got it (gotta find those orange cones I put in the attic, someplace).

The one area looks like I'll need to really dig in an research is the hitch. So glad to hear that process is not as onerous as I had imagined. Just looks difficult. Hitch/pin systems are still a mystery. Fixed/sliders..... with/without cushioning systems....etc. I haven't really started that process yet, so will dig in.

Always glad to come to a place where those who know, are willing to share and teach others.

Thanks!!

[mrw8i]

5th wheel tows different than a bumper pull. I find 5th wheel is easier on the highway, less affected by wind and other vehicles. However, when making turns, going around corners, curbs, obstacles, you have to keep in mind the 5th wheel will off track (cut the corners) a lot more than a bumper pull.

Backing up has taken me a while to learn with the 5th wheel as compared to a bumper pull. A bumper pull will react much quicker to your steering wheel. A 5th wheel takes longer to react. You need to learn to follow the 5th wheel as it starts to turn.

The above is amplified if your tow vehicle is long. Compare a crew cab long bed to a short bed non-crew cab. The difference in total length of the vehicle can be more than 4 feet. That means different turning radius of the tow vehicle. Mine is a crew cab long bed, so the 5th wheel takes longer to react when I turn the steering wheel. I also have less room to maneuver the truck as I back up (think about a road and backing into a driveway), I have less room in the road with my long truck as I make the turn into the driveway while backing.

I watch the tires of my trailer on the inner curve as I backup, trying to line them up with a spot in the curve (typically the corner of the driveway and road I'm trying to back into). My spotter is there for one reason, don't let me hit anything. I get out and look at least 2x every time I backup.

While backing you will find your tow vehicle will swing out further into the road or other side of the road, then when backing a bumper pull.

I find I need to pull further ahead ( a lot further) than a bumper pull, before backing and turning into a spot.

Watch lots of videos of people backing up. Truck drivers backing up their rigs (they have the advantage of much tighter turning radius than many of our pickups so can easily straighten up their tow vehicle with the trailer, where for me it's a lot harder). Quite often when I backup the 5th wheel, I'll have to stop and go back and forth a couple of feet, maybe multiple times to get my tow vehicle lined up with my trailer for the final back into the spot.

If you are way off backing up, start over.

Practice, practice, practice . . .

[danrclem]

There are 1/2 tons that will do the job but a 3/4 or 1 ton truck would be better and in my opinion safer. The only way I'd consider a 1/2 ton is if I were going to do a lot of unloaded driving. If you're buying new get a 1 ton because like others have said the price isn't much more. If you're buying used I'd go with the best deal because any 3/4 ton will handle the trailer and can be upgraded for more weight.

[goducks10]

Durb wrote:
I've taken the same ownership route you are and I made a few mistakes. Chucking is a phenomena that I learned about right away. Like a travel trailer fifth wheels generate forces that are transferred to the truck. On a travel trailer the hitch is about axle high so the forces are bouncing forces, up and down. On a 5er the hitch point is high so the forces are a combination of bouncing and chucking energy, fore and aft. Many things enter into the chucking equation such as length, polar mass, and the trailer's tendency to rotate due to its layout. Unfortunately, short trailers will have a greater percentage of chucking forces compared to bouncing forces than a longer unit. Bottom line, your short light weight trailer may generate more chucking than a long heavy one even when hooked up to a substantial truck. It is hard to know without trying it so since you are settled on your trailer I would suggest trying to tow it with a buddy's truck and see where you stand. There are ways to fix the chucking issue but it would be less expensive if done from the outset. This is based on personal experience. Not to be alarmist but you just can't tell how a trailer is going to tow until you hook it up.

Make sure your trailer will fit your intended truck from a height standpoint. It would be a shame to have to modify it right out of the gate. Good luck.

My short 27'10" 9,000 lb 5th wheel does have a chucking issue. I tow behind a Ram 2500 CTD CC LB 4x4. Plenty of truck. I totally agree with the length being the issue. I've put shocks on the 5er and they may of helped some. Also added a MorRyde pin box which helped the most.

To the OP a real good 5th wheel pin box is also something to consider if you end up with some chucking. Just another piece of the puzzle.
For that size 5th wheel most 3/4 tons should work but I'd look at 1 tons as well. Hardly any more money and payload would never be a concern. Gas will give you more payload, but less towing power. If you're going exploring then you'll no doubt be traveling on all kinds of hwys. A diesel will definitely make towing easier when you hit the mountains.


Slight chucking aside, I'm amazed every time we head out on a trip at how well my truck and 5th wheel work together. We just did a nice little 950 mile round trip last week and it was about as effortless as you can get.

[Veebyes]

No different than selecting anything else. Do the research & take emotion out of the equation. Buying a mistake to be sold & replaced with something else in a few years is extremely expensive. Don't do it.

Buying a truck too small is a recipe for disaster too. Much better to have more than enough truck that feels safe & stable being well under its limits than to be driving barely within specs.

Don't sweat the small stuff. Learning to back a 5er is easy. Hitching is easy.

The important stuff is often unseen. Dry camping at festivals etc. in your plans? First thing you had better look for is a unit with a large water capacity. 60gal is near useless. Go for at least 80gal as a basic 'must have' minimum. Second in importance for the longterm traveller is a useful galley with plenty of counter space & a large fridge. So many layouts have so little galley space.

[garyp4951]

That 5th wheel is probably rated for 1/2 ton towable, so just check the specs on your truck.

[Mody_n_Domy]

We have been full time RVing for 5 years in our 38' MH. We traded in out MH and Jeep to get a 40' Grand Design Solitude 384GK and for a truck it is a 2017 GMC 3500 dually CC diesel with a Trailer Saver 5th wheel hitch. I did a lot of research and found the pin weight of the 5r needs to have about 30% +- added to the weight once you get loaded. If you decide to go with a 350/3500 look into dual rear wheels its doesn't cost much more and the extra carrying capacity and stability is worth it. I know others will say that's to much truck but I like to make sure I'm pulling and stopping with enough truck.

[jerseyjim]

let's throw a wrench into this: Many years ago i was in the same situation. Ready to retire...looking at 5ths for my "retirement vehicle". Then, at my RV dealer for a repair on my travel trailer, I discovered gasoline motorhomes. ("gassers").

For the same price as a properly equipped pickup to tow the 5th..and the 5th itself, wife and I both thought the motorhome would serve our needs better. it does...and we never looked at a 5th again (except if we ever decide to go more or less "seasonal" somewhere. Then....I'll buy the biggest and baddest, have the dealer deliver it.)

Whatever you choose...g'luck!

[laknox]

orggardn wrote:
Well, retirement is almost upon me (December if all goes well) and we're looking hard at a 5th wheel and a new tow rig to start things off right. Problem is, I'm not sure how to get started. I've towed multiple popups and a travel travel (+ tons of farm implements), never anything with an in bed hitch.

The big question is - "is there a good place to get educated on how to get started in the 5th wheel world?"

We've pick out a fiver, but need to know:
- how to match a tow vehicle to it
- how to select a hitch
- how to tow the darn thing (this really has me a bit skittish)

We're planning several "local" outings to get used to the rig and shake out some of the initial bugs. Then, head out for a couple of 4-6 week explorations.

FYI, specs for the unit we've picked out:
SHIPPING WEIGHT: 7035 LBS
CARRYING CAPACITY: 2965 LBS
HITCH: 1405 LBS
LENGTH: 28'11"
HEIGHT: 11'11"

I'd appreciate your pointing me in the right direction. I'm a good reader and a quick learner.......

IMO, a 250/2500 would handle this easily...BUT...speaking from experience, I'd opt for a 350/3500 SRW. Not much more money and gives you room to expand if you decide to upgrade to a larger FW in a year or two.

As for education, start here and read, read, read! 🙂 Use the search feature for any question you might have, and see if it's been answered.

Lyle

[Peg_Leg]

You've picked a nice size rig. 3/4 ton capable with a gas engine if you prefer, 10k gross weight, size accessible to almost any place you want to go. Make sure you get a truck with LT tires load range E. There are a lot of nice looking wheels on trucks with tires that won't carry a load. You'll love towing a 5er. So much easier to hookup. Like towing any trailer for the first time, a bit of practice in a lot just to get used to how it handles cause there all different.

You want to tow level but you need clearance between the rig and the bed sides. I shoot for a 5" min. Hitch head height is adjustable. Trailer pin height is adjustable. You can get a headache trying figure it all out.

Raising the trailer to get the level ride is where problems arise. My 5er came with a $86 option that allows for 3 different ride heights and I thank whoever ordered all the time. I've raised mine 2" and it worked fine. You can search "flipping the axles". You can have a someone with metal fabrication skills to remove the spring shackles, weld in a sub-frame of steel tubing and add back the shackles. All of this is just to raise the trailer so it's level and you have bed side clearance.

Consider a pin box with some cushioning mechanism. Some have air bag ride, or elastomer links they all help with the concrete road rebound.

Once your setup and on the road your gonna have a heck of time wiping that smile off your face.