Who has been pulled over for double towing illegally???

[Ezbagr]

I see so many posts on here where people say it is illegal to double tow in such a such state and so and I am wondering if anyone has ever been pulled over? Please leave out the wifes brothers cousin stories.
I want real experiences.
I live in Illinois and it is against the law to double tow but I see people doing it all the time.

[laknox]

fj12ryder wrote:
Personally I'd feel very unsafe passing, or being passed, by this particular setup. There is no way that conglomeration of vehicles could be controlled in any kind of panic situation or panic stop. That, to my mind, is what makes it unsafe. A guy pulling one trailer behind his 5th wheel may be illegal, but not necessarily unsafe. This combination of vehicles was unsafe and should have been pulled over. Control in anything other than straight and steady would be impossible.

OTOH people doing 10 mph over the limit in a controlled manner are not inherently unsafe. Contrary to popular postings, speed doesn't kill, unsafe drivers kill, whether they are speeding and driving erratically, or driving an obvious unsafe combination of vehicles.

Old, old study, repeated many times. If you "unpost" a road for several months and let people set their own speed and clock the traffic, then set the speed limit of 85% of the average speed clocked, you'll have better traffic flow with very few accidents or need to stop people. The stupidest thing going is in Kalifornicate (where else), where vehicles with trailers are relegated to 55 mph, while the rest of traffic whizzes by at 65-70+. The =difference= in speed is the real cause of accidents and the =worst= accidents. I drive a 25 mile stretch of freeway 2x per day, usually in bumper-to-bumper. There is an HOV lane on the inside. The worst accidents happen when the main traffic is at a near-standstill and the HOV traffic is moving at or above the 65 mph posted limit. Someone will invariably jump out of the slow traffic and into the HOV lane, then get rear-ended by someone there moving at 65-70 mph. Almost a daily occurrence. If AZ were truly serious about traffic safety, they'd install automated speed limit signs that would =change= the speed limit depending on traffic conditions, especially in the HOV lane.

Lyle

[avvidclif1]

If you had common sense you would realize there are too many laws to enforce ALL of them ALL of the time. It's kinda like the checkoff list a quarterback goes thru when passing. Start with things that can cause serious bodily harm and down to lesser levels, then to property loss or damage. And then you have to answer calls for service. Some laws overrule a call for service, some don't. Starting to get the picture??? It's a balancing act.

[transamz9]

Wadcutter wrote:

transamz9 wrote:
I read your post just fine the first time. I can also see the there is no way of having a friendly conversation because of all the questions and the way you asked them.

Please, don't try to cover up your real reason for asking. You made your real feelings shown. You aren't at all interested in a 'friendly conversation'. You just want to show your true side that you don't think he should have been stopped.
Proof of that? You next few sentences proved your true motive

I'm just saying that I think if you are going to enforce 1 then you should enforce all. This guy was probably just heading out on a nice vacation not bothering a sole not causing any harm taking his time trying to get from point A to point B and relax.

There you go. You've proven my point. You have your motive for asking questions and it had nothing to do with a 'friendly conversation'.
So you've expressed your opinion. You think all the other laws should be applied except those that affect you. Just like the you did when I stopped you that day. Stop the other guy, not me.

You pulling him over and all you accomplish was ruining his vacation and you getting some out of state money.

Again you're showing your true motive for this discussion. Just to show how little you know:
The state didn't get any of the fine money. All fine money in IL went to the county and city where the violation occurred.
I didn't ruin anything. It wasn't me who violated the law. It wasn't me who hooked his 4 vehicles together. He had a free choice and he chose wrong.

Also now if he wants to do this again he will have to burn twice as much fuel and put twice as much pollutants out by driving two vehicles.

You're such an environmentalist. So your real motive for getting upset about the stop was he was just saving the environment.

All because it's a law that by the way was probably made by people that have never towed anything in their life and they think it looks unsafe.

Once again you've shown just how little you know. Here's a fact that may educate you a bot. Nearly every statute on the books was either written or endorsed by attorneys and lobbyists for the Midwest Trucker's Association or the Teamsters.

On the other side of this, those people that are running 1,2,5,10 over the speed limit are doing it because they couldn't drag their bottoms out of bed early enough to get to work on time so they try to make it up on the road. With that driving over the speed limit comes people getting cut off, road rage, and all sorts of SAFE things. You as a LEO didn't see these cut offs and road rages and things because when a LEO is around it's funny how people can just fall in line and drive like they have some sense......until you're out of sight then it's back to driving crazy and now it's worse because they lost 15 seconds having to drive normal around a LEO.

What an amazing revelation. I never would have known that had you not said it. Think of this tho while you're preaching. Do you think a LEO drives around in a marked vehicle 24 hrs a day and never ventures out in their personal vehicle. You think LEOs don't see the same thing when out with their families?

If you re-read you said that you did not pull him over because he looked unsafe. You said you pulled him over because he was illegal. Driving 1 MPH is just as "Illegal" as 5 MPH or 20 MPH or 4 vehicles hooked together. Am I not right about this? The law is the law correct?

That's your best argument? Really? You can't see the difference? Seriously? What a joke. Thanks for the bit of humor.

Now if you had pulled him over and he didn't have sufficient brakes for his rig or tires or anything else that would make it unsafe then write away.

And the guy with no brakes or bad tires thinks he's perfectly fine and safe. You wouldn't believe the excuses. Or maybe you would because you've come up with some real good ones yourself.

I could never do you job for many reasons but giving some laws slack and others not is unfair and that is JMO.

I agree you couldn't. It takes a bit of common sense.

Okay ,now you can tell me how stupid and wrong I am with more of your questions.;)

I don't have to. You've done a pretty good job yourself.
Nothing more from me. A 'friendly conversation' is always welcome. That was never your intentions tho. You just want to blow of steam. Feel better?

You're right I must not have any common sense because I actually thought I might have gotten a straight answer right from the horses mouth. Sorry I asked a professional a question why something is done the way it is. I guess I will just have to continue to think the way I do because I haven't been proven wrong yet, by you or any of the LEO's I have as very good friends and family members.

I truly was just asking a question and not trying to start anything. If I had asked the question "why are some laws enforce while other are ignored" to just and everyday person that has/had nothing to do with LE do you think I could have trusted the answer? Sorry I even tried. I believe I already know the answer but politics aren't allowed to be talked about.

Again I have never and probably will never be in your town so no it wasn't me you stopped. I won't pull three trailers anyway.;)

[57_Panhead]

In California the rule for pulling two trailers is 75' length limit providing neither trailer is over 28.5 ft. If one of the trailers is over that length then the over all length limit is 65 ft.

As far as odd towing combinations go, check out the guy below. Motor home, quad, pickup truck and a trailer with an airplane on it!!!! Saw this on highway 99 northbound a bit over a year ago.

http://i1088.photobucket.com/albums/i322/Steve_Scarboro/plane1_zpsba4c19e5.jpg

Sorry for the URL but my iPad won't let me use the upload feature

Steve

[fj12ryder]

If a single semi stopping, or trying to stop, can jackknife, what do you think the chances of 4(!) vehicles getting stopped in a safe manner.

You've driven 4 vehicles on an interstate before? Ask someone who's pulled three different types of vehicles with different types of braking systems and find out how hard it would be to get all of them to act together. Then add one more. It's unsafe, pure and simple.

Why pick the guy going 75 mph and weaving through traffic over the guy going 75 mph in his own lane and driving safely? Because one is safe and one isn't. Pretty easy question. That's why you pull over someone trying to go down the road with too many trailers.

[transamz9]

fj12ryder wrote:
Don't be silly. You're comparing apples and oranges. Do you really think that group of vehicles is going to be controllable in a panic, or emergency situation? Like if he had to swerve to avoid something in the highway or stop very quickly. Be reasonable, some regulations are there for a reason.

And I agree with you on some points: driver's license examinations should be tougher from day one. And yes, some people have no business driving a big fifth wheel or coach. But that does not negate the fact that some things are flat out unsafe.

One of the reasons for speed limits is revenue generation and the other is an advisory of what a safe speed is for the area. And yes, you're absolutely right: "We should just be able to run as fast as we want as long as it's safe right?" that's exactly right. "As long as it's safe"!!

When the brakes are set up correctly and the operator drives accordingly to the conditions then they handle fine. Believe it or not when the tow vehicle changes lanes so does all the trailers behind it. The trailer don't know how many vehicles are in front of it it only knows it needs to follow the one it's hooked to. It's the operators job to know what the trailers are going to do in an emergency.

As far as an emergency, what would you call an emergency? If you can't stop then you are following too close for the circumstances. How well do you think a semi weighing 80,000# stops from a highway speed? What about one that weighs 120,000#? You drive according to what you are driving. Wadcutter didn't say the guy was being unsafe he said the guy was illegal. I'm saying that a lot of the vehicles that were on that road that day were probably illegal as far as the "LAW" is concerned. Why pick one over the other?

[Wadcutter]

transamz9 wrote:
I read your post just fine the first time. I can also see the there is no way of having a friendly conversation because of all the questions and the way you asked them.

Please, don't try to cover up your real reason for asking. You made your real feelings shown. You aren't at all interested in a 'friendly conversation'. You just want to show your true side that you don't think he should have been stopped.
Proof of that? You next few sentences proved your true motive

I'm just saying that I think if you are going to enforce 1 then you should enforce all. This guy was probably just heading out on a nice vacation not bothering a sole not causing any harm taking his time trying to get from point A to point B and relax.

There you go. You've proven my point. You have your motive for asking questions and it had nothing to do with a 'friendly conversation'.
So you've expressed your opinion. You think all the other laws should be applied except those that affect you. Just like the you did when I stopped you that day. Stop the other guy, not me.

You pulling him over and all you accomplish was ruining his vacation and you getting some out of state money.

Again you're showing your true motive for this discussion. Just to show how little you know:
The state didn't get any of the fine money. All fine money in IL went to the county and city where the violation occurred.
I didn't ruin anything. It wasn't me who violated the law. It wasn't me who hooked his 4 vehicles together. He had a free choice and he chose wrong.

Also now if he wants to do this again he will have to burn twice as much fuel and put twice as much pollutants out by driving two vehicles.

You're such an environmentalist. So your real motive for getting upset about the stop was he was just saving the environment.

All because it's a law that by the way was probably made by people that have never towed anything in their life and they think it looks unsafe.

Once again you've shown just how little you know. Here's a fact that may educate you a bot. Nearly every statute on the books was either written or endorsed by attorneys and lobbyists for the Midwest Trucker's Association or the Teamsters.

On the other side of this, those people that are running 1,2,5,10 over the speed limit are doing it because they couldn't drag their bottoms out of bed early enough to get to work on time so they try to make it up on the road. With that driving over the speed limit comes people getting cut off, road rage, and all sorts of SAFE things. You as a LEO didn't see these cut offs and road rages and things because when a LEO is around it's funny how people can just fall in line and drive like they have some sense......until you're out of sight then it's back to driving crazy and now it's worse because they lost 15 seconds having to drive normal around a LEO.

What an amazing revelation. I never would have known that had you not said it. Think of this tho while you're preaching. Do you think a LEO drives around in a marked vehicle 24 hrs a day and never ventures out in their personal vehicle. You think LEOs don't see the same thing when out with their families?

If you re-read you said that you did not pull him over because he looked unsafe. You said you pulled him over because he was illegal. Driving 1 MPH is just as "Illegal" as 5 MPH or 20 MPH or 4 vehicles hooked together. Am I not right about this? The law is the law correct?

That's your best argument? Really? You can't see the difference? Seriously? What a joke. Thanks for the bit of humor.

Now if you had pulled him over and he didn't have sufficient brakes for his rig or tires or anything else that would make it unsafe then write away.

And the guy with no brakes or bad tires thinks he's perfectly fine and safe. You wouldn't believe the excuses. Or maybe you would because you've come up with some real good ones yourself.

I could never do you job for many reasons but giving some laws slack and others not is unfair and that is JMO.

I agree you couldn't. It takes a bit of common sense.

Okay ,now you can tell me how stupid and wrong I am with more of your questions.;)

I don't have to. You've done a pretty good job yourself.
Nothing more from me. A 'friendly conversation' is always welcome. That was never your intentions tho. You just want to blow of steam. Feel better?

[fj12ryder]

Don't be silly. You're comparing apples and oranges. Do you really think that group of vehicles is going to be controllable in a panic, or emergency situation? Like if he had to swerve to avoid something in the highway or stop very quickly. Be reasonable, some regulations are there for a reason.

And I agree with you on some points: driver's license examinations should be tougher from day one. And yes, some people have no business driving a big fifth wheel or coach. But that does not negate the fact that some things are flat out unsafe.

One of the reasons for speed limits is revenue generation and the other is an advisory of what a safe speed is for the area. And yes, you're absolutely right: "We should just be able to run as fast as we want as long as it's safe right?" that's exactly right. "As long as it's safe"!!

[transamz9]

fj12ryder wrote:
Personally I'd feel very unsafe passing, or being passed, by this particular setup. There is no way that conglomeration of vehicles could be controlled in any kind of panic situation or panic stop. That, to my mind, is what makes it unsafe. A guy pulling one trailer behind his 5th wheel may be illegal, but not necessarily unsafe. This combination of vehicles was unsafe and should have been pulled over. Control in anything other than straight and steady would be impossible.

OTOH people doing 10 mph over the limit in a controlled manner are not inherently unsafe. Contrary to popular postings, speed doesn't kill, unsafe drivers kill, whether they are speeding and driving erratically, or driving an obvious unsafe combination of vehicles.

The guy was running straight down the road. Have you ever driven a multi-trailer rig? How do you know how they handle? Perfect example right here. You think they look unsafe so they must be. Now, as far as that goes, half the people I see pulling a fifthwheel or driving a big motorhome have no business doing it. It's not illegal so it must be safe right?

Pulling a big fifth wheel is really no different than driving a day cab semi pulling a pup trailer and you have to have a special license for that. Why? It's so they know that you can handle the rig and that you know how to recognize possible problems and issues with the rig before getting out on the road and breaking down or even worse , having or causing an accident.

I personally think that everyone should go through the same things a commercial driver does as far as license go. I mean you have to have a license to ride a bike. Everyone rode bicycles when they are kids. What's that saying? You never forget how to ride a bike.

If speed doesn't kill then why do we have speed limits? We should just be able to run as fast as we want as long as it's safe right? They make these laws to keep us safe. Protect and serve but yet they pick and choose which laws get enforced and which ones don't.

[fj12ryder]

Personally I'd feel very unsafe passing, or being passed, by this particular setup. There is no way that conglomeration of vehicles could be controlled in any kind of panic situation or panic stop. That, to my mind, is what makes it unsafe. A guy pulling one trailer behind his 5th wheel may be illegal, but not necessarily unsafe. This combination of vehicles was unsafe and should have been pulled over. Control in anything other than straight and steady would be impossible.

OTOH people doing 10 mph over the limit in a controlled manner are not inherently unsafe. Contrary to popular postings, speed doesn't kill, unsafe drivers kill, whether they are speeding and driving erratically, or driving an obvious unsafe combination of vehicles.

[transamz9]

Wadcutter wrote:

transamz9 wrote:

Wadcutter wrote:

transamz9 wrote:

Wadcutter wrote:

I was heading southbound on the interstate and saw him going northbound. My first thought was "that pickup and boat is riding that Class A's butt." Then when they got even with me I could see they were all connected. Such a combination sticks out.

So it looked unsafe?

Looked unsafe? It looked illegal.
A class A can legally tow a trailer but it can't tow a trailer, a Dodge pickup and a boat all at the same time. He was almost 100 ft long which is also illegal.

So is running 1 MPH over the speed limit. Did you pull all those over too?

What are you talking about? That may be a rhetorical question since you apparently don't know.
I never said anything about speed.
If I see any 4 vehicle combinations you bet I would pull them over. It's not hardly the same as 1 mph over.

Not trying to start something , just wondering what made him more illegal then anyone else?.

Yeah, right. Obviously you can't tell the difference between 1 mph over and 4 vehicles in combination.

I know you've said it before that you don't catch all the fish while fishing but when they are practically jumping in the boat and you ignore them you go after a specific one it seems you are picking.
Again, I'm not trying to start anything I am just truly trying to have a friendly conversation with a professional that has great experience in this.

If you want a friendly conversation then you need to re-read what I wrote about the stop. Since you apparently missed it or couldn't understand my previous comment here it is again:
It was 4 vehicles connected together. Class A pulling a box trailer which had a Dodge pickup connected to the box trailer and the pickup had a boat connected to it. Do I need to post a drawing? 4 vehicles connected together - Class A, trailer, pickup, boat.
I'm sure even you could look at 4 vehicles all connected together driving down the interstate and recognize a hitch connection between each. No one said anything about 1 mph over. 4 vehicles connected is not even close to the same.
Using your own statement "but when they are practically jumping in the boat" - 4 vehicles connected together is jumping into the boat.
Any other laws that you don't think should be enforced?
You sound like you may be the guy who was driving the outfit I described and stopped. He was whining the same thing you are now. Why me? Why not stop all the others out here? Did you learn anything?

I read your post just fine the first time. I can also see the there is no way of having a friendly conversation because of all the questions and the way you asked them. I'm not stupid and you don't have to draw me a picture. I'm not telling you to not enforce any laws I'm just saying that I think if you are going to enforce 1 then you should enforce all. This guy was probably just heading out on a nice vacation not bothering a sole not causing any harm taking his time trying to get from point A to point B and relax. You pulling him over and all you accomplish was ruining his vacation and you getting some out of state money. Also now if he wants to do this again he will have to burn twice as much fuel and put twice as much pollutants out by driving two vehicles. All because it's a law that by the way was probably made by people that have never towed anything in their life and they think it looks unsafe.

On the other side of this, those people that are running 1,2,5,10 over the speed limit are doing it because they couldn't drag their bottoms out of bed early enough to get to work on time so they try to make it up on the road. With that driving over the speed limit comes people getting cut off, road rage, and all sorts of SAFE things. You as a LEO didn't see these cut offs and road rages and things because when a LEO is around it's funny how people can just fall in line and drive like they have some sense......until you're out of sight then it's back to driving crazy and now it's worse because they lost 15 seconds having to drive normal around a LEO.

If you re-read you said that you did not pull him over because he looked unsafe. You said you pulled him over because he was illegal. Driving 1 MPH is just as "Illegal" as 5 MPH or 20 MPH or 4 vehicles hooked together. Am I not right about this? The law is the law correct?

BTW, I'm not the guy you pulled over and to be quite honest could care less what that guy does as long as he is safe about it. Now if you had pulled him over and he didn't have sufficient brakes for his rig or tires or anything else that would make it unsafe then write away. IMO there are far more unsafe things let go then a guy driving down the interstate in his RV towing three trailers. Especially now days with all the bells and whistles that are on vehicles that distract drivers. I have all the respect in the world for you as a LEO and I could never do you job for many reasons but giving some laws slack and others not is unfair and that is JMO.

Okay ,now you can tell me how stupid and wrong I am with more of your questions.;)

[Denny___Jami]

dahkota wrote:
towing laws by state

Thanks for the link it looks pretty complete.

Denny

[laknox]

Wadcutter wrote:

transamz9 wrote:

Wadcutter wrote:

n7bsn wrote:
A few years back a retired LEO from the mid-west posted he had once stopped someone using a pickup to pull three trailers!

3 trailers is an illegal combination in a lot of state, IL included.
The weirdest combination I ever stopped was about 10 yrs ago. A Class A pulling a box trailer which had a ball hitch on the back. To the box trailer he had connected a Dodge Dakota pickup which had a tow bar on the front. To the Dakota he had hitched a boat. 4 units in tow. He had crossed into IL just south of St Louis on I-255. By the time I had stopped him he had traveled over 100 miles into IL. He complained that if he was illegal he should have been stopped 100 miles sooner. He got tickets for illegal combination and overlength. Had I written him everything that was wrong I could probably still be writing.

Hey Wadcutter, When you stopped this guy, can you remember what caught your attention? Was it an unsafe looking rig, going to fast, doing something stupid (besides having a load hooked like that) or just on patrols? I'm just curious.

I was heading southbound on the interstate and saw him going northbound. My first thought was "that pickup and boat is riding that Class A's butt." Then when they got even with me I could see they were all connected. Such a combination sticks out.

Me Again wrote:
So do you think the Anderson hitch which connects via a ball in place on the king pin is a "fifth-wheel type assembly" per the code above? Would an Anderson hitch require safety chains in your state? Chris

I'm not familiar with an Anderson hitch. The definition of a 5th wheel assembly is in the IL statutes:
(625 ILCS 5/1-120.5)
Sec. 1-120.5. Fifth wheel assembly. A coupling device connecting 2 or more vehicles operating in combination. The lower half of a fifth wheel assembly mounted on a truck tractor or converter dolly must be secured to the frame of that vehicle with properly designed brackets, mounting plates, or angles and properly tightened bolts of adequate size and grade or devices that provide equivalent security. The installation shall not cause cracking, warping, or deformation of the frame. The installation shall include a device for positively preventing the lower half of the fifth wheel assembly from shifting on the frame to which it is attached.
The upper half of a fifth wheel assembly must be fastened to the motor vehicle with at least the same security required for the installation of the lower half on a truck tractor or converter dolly.
Every fifth wheel assembly shall have a locking mechanism. The locking mechanism and any adapter used in conjunction with it must prevent separation of the upper and lower halves of the fifth wheel assembly unless a positive manual release is activated. The release may be located so that the driver can operate it from the cab. If a motor vehicle has a fifth wheel assembly designed and constructed to be readily separable, the fifth wheel assembly locking devices shall apply automatically on coupling.
The lower half of a fifth wheel assembly shall be located so that, regardless of the condition of loading, the relationship between the kingpin and the rear axle or axles of the towing motor vehicle will properly distribute the gross weight of both the towed and towing vehicles on the axles of those vehicles, will not unduly interfere with the steering, braking, and other maneuvering of the towing vehicle, and will not otherwise contribute to unsafe operation of the vehicles comprising the combination. The upper half of a fifth wheel assembly shall be located so that the weight of the vehicles is properly distributed on their axles and the combination of vehicles will operate safely during normal operation.
(Source: P.A. 90-89, eff. 1-1-98.)

Under a strict reading of that statute, I'd say that the Anderson hitch does NOT qualify as a fifth wheel, since it specifically says "kingpin", which the Anderson does not have. In AZ, if that statute were in effect, you'd have to use safety chains and you couldn't double-tow because you'd have ball hitch/ball hitch, which isn't allowed here. Also, there are several of the less expensive FW hitches that don't automatically lock; I'm thinking the slide bar type. They specifically aren't legal under that statute, IMO. Also, you've got to get nailed by a LEO that actually knows what these things are... 🙂

Lyle

[Wadcutter]

transamz9 wrote:

Wadcutter wrote:

transamz9 wrote:

Wadcutter wrote:

I was heading southbound on the interstate and saw him going northbound. My first thought was "that pickup and boat is riding that Class A's butt." Then when they got even with me I could see they were all connected. Such a combination sticks out.

So it looked unsafe?

Looked unsafe? It looked illegal.
A class A can legally tow a trailer but it can't tow a trailer, a Dodge pickup and a boat all at the same time. He was almost 100 ft long which is also illegal.

So is running 1 MPH over the speed limit. Did you pull all those over too?

What are you talking about? That may be a rhetorical question since you apparently don't know.
I never said anything about speed.
If I see any 4 vehicle combinations you bet I would pull them over. It's not hardly the same as 1 mph over.

Not trying to start something , just wondering what made him more illegal then anyone else?.

Yeah, right. Obviously you can't tell the difference between 1 mph over and 4 vehicles in combination.

I know you've said it before that you don't catch all the fish while fishing but when they are practically jumping in the boat and you ignore them you go after a specific one it seems you are picking.
Again, I'm not trying to start anything I am just truly trying to have a friendly conversation with a professional that has great experience in this.

If you want a friendly conversation then you need to re-read what I wrote about the stop. Since you apparently missed it or couldn't understand my previous comment here it is again:
It was 4 vehicles connected together. Class A pulling a box trailer which had a Dodge pickup connected to the box trailer and the pickup had a boat connected to it. Do I need to post a drawing? 4 vehicles connected together - Class A, trailer, pickup, boat.
I'm sure even you could look at 4 vehicles all connected together driving down the interstate and recognize a hitch connection between each. No one said anything about 1 mph over. 4 vehicles connected is not even close to the same.
Using your own statement "but when they are practically jumping in the boat" - 4 vehicles connected together is jumping into the boat.
Any other laws that you don't think should be enforced?
You sound like you may be the guy who was driving the outfit I described and stopped. He was whining the same thing you are now. Why me? Why not stop all the others out here? Did you learn anything?