WINTER/CUSTOM BUILD???

[12t1]

First off…if this is not the right forum please move it or advise me where to post.

I had a KZ toy hauler for 3 years and loved it but now I need to haul a car and 3-4 snowmobiles in the winter with reasonable comfort down to 0 degrees. Boondocking for 3-4 days. I learned what to do and not do with the last trailer and I want to begin with a used @26' car hauler preferably aluminum and stripped inside.


INSULATION
This is not about looks…only functionality. Since the beams in trailer walls are not very thick I thought I would use over speced foam or possibly fiberglass insulation and maybe even tyvek to seal it up. I do not need solid walls…or maybe only in the areas where things need to be attached to the wall. I will install some windows and if they are not too much more get double pane or just tape bubble wrap over the windows. I will have a 12v range hood fan and 2 fantastic fans front and back to remove moisture.

What insulation to use?
What about the floor?…how to insulate from the bottom exterior?


PLUMBING
I plan to wall in the front 5' for bathroom with a toilet and shower and have a kitchen sink in the outside of this wall. I want the 30 gallon black and 30 gallon grey tanks above the floor level inside a platform. This is not an issue with a toilet but a shower is a height problem. I'm 6'1" and in the KZ I had a clear bubble above the shower that made me fit. I have found a 30 gallon tank that is only 7" high. I know there are trailers with extra height but I do not want to order a new trailer.

Bubbles for over shower? Sources?

If a tank is only 7" high how can level sensors work?

So my theory was to make a frame that holds the tanks 2 inches above the floor and have venting on the platform to allow heat through. That way they will not freeze by touching the floor. I do not want to run tank heaters as they draw down the 4 6v house batteries too much over 10 hour days. I want the tanks to not freeze.

Can the drains have only a slight angle down to the side of the trailer? There will be a insulated compartment door to open to access the drains.

Would a macerator pump or something like that be needed since I am not draining from the bottom?


HOT WATER
http://amzn.to/1dk0cO3
can be drained for quick winterizing and has vent


FRESH WATER
will draw from 2 15 gallon plastic drums or 7 gallon aquatainers as needed…all interior and strapped to the wall.
All water lines will be run along the top of the wall and easily accessed. A 12v pump will run everything. Just suck in some pink when not in use and start with 2 gallons of pink in each tank against the valves.


HEAT
Suburban furnace 30-40k (set low when out riding) This will be located near the tanks.
Kimberly wood stove with fresh air inlet (if I can afford it) for evenings

Any advice on any of this appreciated…thanks.

[BoonHauler]

tinner12002 wrote:

BoonHauler wrote:
DO NOT use metal 'Drywall' studs. Anything metal will transfer (conduct) the outside temp right into the trailer.

Do a internet search for 'Thermal Brake' and study up on the subject matter.

As for the insulation a 'Closed Cell' polyurethane insulation would be the best and provide a R-Value of about R-6 per inch of thickness. You can 'spray in' or install sheets of this insulation as I have, here's a link R-Max and can be found at Home Depot, Lowes, etc.

The nice thing about a sprayed in application is that it also provides an 'Air Barrier' as well, do a search on that term as well.



Trust me, I'm building a 36 foot hauler from the groud up Boonhauler Project

Wouldn't it have been much easier and less work by not redesigning the wheel so to speak and just purchased a gooseneck 24K rated trailer and built off of that platform? Just askin..looks like your doing a killer job on it though.

Thanks, show me a 20k gooseneck that is a tandem axle dually with 24k disc brakes that is somewhat lightweight......have you looked for one?

[tinner12002]

BoonHauler wrote:
DO NOT use metal 'Drywall' studs. Anything metal will transfer (conduct) the outside temp right into the trailer.

Do a internet search for 'Thermal Brake' and study up on the subject matter.

As for the insulation a 'Closed Cell' polyurethane insulation would be the best and provide a R-Value of about R-6 per inch of thickness. You can 'spray in' or install sheets of this insulation as I have, here's a link R-Max and can be found at Home Depot, Lowes, etc.

The nice thing about a sprayed in application is that it also provides an 'Air Barrier' as well, do a search on that term as well.



Trust me, I'm building a 36 foot hauler from the groud up Boonhauler Project

Wouldn't it have been much easier and less work by not redesigning the wheel so to speak and just purchased a gooseneck 24K rated trailer and built off of that platform? Just askin..looks like your doing a killer job on it though.

[12t1]

I'm considering ATC trailer and they can install:

1” closed cell foam insulation
2” expansion foam insulation
1” E.P.S. insulation

I "think 2" expansion would be best with 1" closed as a 2nd choice. But both might not ne as good as the RMAX you used? What fo you think?

[BoonHauler]

here's the link for the Lite-Ply Sorry, it's low VOC.

as for the insulation it all depends on existing conditions, method of construction, and budget.

Talonhead is right, if you can properly install all the utilities (plumbing, power & electronics, and HVAC) and any framing needed prior to installation a sprayed in place urethane would by the best for your requirement.

I'm sure you could find a contractor in your area that can do the project for you but it will entail close coordination between all trades involved or things could easily get out of hand.

[12t1]

is there a spray in that equals the RMAX thermashield3 insulation properties???...or I should just put the boards in and foil tape the seams and then Lity play and paint on that.

I appreciate the Lite Play has no VOCs Now htat I know that term it will help. Can you spec the Lite Ply...where you got it what it is called. I suspect it is also a bit bendable for curbed areas?

thanks

[BoonHauler]

12t1, I'm using the RMAX Thermasheath-3 insulation as it has the highest R-Value per inch of any insulation. The polyisocyanurate foam is a newer version/form of polyurethane foam.

Additionally the foil facing provides a 'Radient Barrier', do another search on this term as well. The radient barrier will reflect heat back into the conditioned space as well as reflect solar gain away (keep out) of the trailer during the summer months. With the method of installation that I have employed (foil taping the joints) I also pick up a 'Air Barrier' as well.

The 1/4" plywood has two functions, 1.) it provides the Thermal Brake from the conductive materials (metal framing) and 2.) provides a substrate for the final layer of rigid insualtion and finish interior paneling. The "Lite-ply" plywood I'm using has no VOC's in the adhesive, fyi.

This 'assembly' I believe will provide a robust energy envelope against extreme temperatures variations and provide for a comfortable environment within the trailer with minimal energy inputs (heating or cooling).

[12t1]

boon..I read to page 4 last night...great blog!!!...I will follow it. So you used 2" Rmax with foil tape on the seams but this still exposes the internal studs...so you put 1/4" ply over all that as the thermal barrier??? then some sort of polyurethane??? I think I would go to the ply and maybe skip the poly on top???...what do you think. I'm terrified of smells due to chemicals.

Also...since the rmax has foil on both sides and you use foil tape then that is also the vapor barrier? I dont care about looks so I need to compare the 2' rmax to spray in.

I have read there are even soy bean based spray ins? Is the Rvalue the same with spray in?

Since your target was 17-19R...is that good down to zero degrees?

thanks for all this.

[BoonHauler]

DO NOT use metal 'Drywall' studs. Anything metal will transfer (conduct) the outside temp right into the trailer.

Do a internet search for 'Thermal Brake' and study up on the subject matter.

As for the insulation a 'Closed Cell' polyurethane insulation would be the best and provide a R-Value of about R-6 per inch of thickness. You can 'spray in' or install sheets of this insulation as I have, here's a link R-Max and can be found at Home Depot, Lowes, etc.

The nice thing about a sprayed in application is that it also provides an 'Air Barrier' as well, do a search on that term as well.

Trust me, I'm building a 36 foot hauler from the groud up Boonhauler Project

[talonhead]

If you really need more insulation, what about using sheet metal drywall studs to get thickness and a wall mounting ability. If you do all electrical and plumbing ran first, then get a contractor to do an in place styrofoam spray-in like they do houses? R value is great and it seals like nothing else. Just my .02.
MikeH

[AlbertaNewbie]

12t1 wrote:
I believe you add compression strength to the walls...how about weight of the foam on a 26" trailer? Probably less than foam board?

google is your friend

[12t1]

I believe you add compression strength to the walls...how about weight of the foam on a 26" trailer? Probably less than foam board?

[12t1]

12t1 wrote:

nevadanick wrote:
The carbides will probably tear up the rhino, i have used these http://www.trailerpartsdepot.com/itemdesc.asp?ic=CR0121&eq=&Tp=

Thanks...I had those on a 2 position open trailer. This is 80% car trailer and then we will try to get 3-4 sleds in for some winter trips. I'm thinking get them up on dollys and winch them in to place because driving that many in might be difficult...that way we can bring them in backwards to try to fit 4.

thanks

yes I think a pro is necessary. I suspect it would be better to install the windows after and that way they can blast through there fast. Are you saying the foam will be 3" thick from the skin up to the interior edge of the beam? so oyu can see the beams or would they go over the beams too? How thick? ANy pictures of trailers with this anywhere? Is it easy to cut like "Great Stuff"?

[12t1]

nevadanick wrote:
The carbides will probably tear up the rhino, i have used these http://www.trailerpartsdepot.com/itemdesc.asp?ic=CR0121&eq=&Tp=

Thanks...I had those on a 2 position open trailer. This is 80% car trailer and then we will try to get 3-4 sleds in for some winter trips. I'm thinking get them up on dollys and winch them in to place because driving that many in might be difficult...that way we can bring them in backwards to try to fit 4.

thanks

[AlbertaNewbie]

12t1 wrote:
what do you think @500 square feet would cost in closed cell 5lb?

for the thickness you see of 2-4", probably about $1/sqft as there would be minimal prep. there are diy kits, but if you havent done it before I would phone a spray foam company, that and the diy kits are often. not as good quality and the applicators suck so the end result os not something id want in my trailer.

r20 at 3" is easily achievable. original post of r2.3/inch was fo r1/2lb open cell(crap)