Anyone ever get in legal trouble over residency issues?

[chilly81]

I'm in the process of figuring out what to do for residency / domicile and am a little nervous as I have no plans to stay in one place for more than a few weeks.

So I was wondering if anyone has ever been (or known anyone who's been) in legal trouble based on residency issues. I mean like fraud or something where they pick Texas but don't really visit texas beyond the first registration trip.

[W4RLR]

OutdoorPhotographer wrote:

mabynack wrote:
I've seen it in the military. It's mostly centered around taxes or trying to vote in more than one state. I've also seen guys get ticketed for having a registration from one state and driver's license from another.

As long as you comply with the state residency requirements you should be okay.

You've seen military get in trouble? I know folks in the military who don't know the rules but it is pretty simple and similar to full-timing but with caveats.

My domicile is Louisiana, my home of record and home state. I vote there. My vehicles are registered there and my drivers license is there. I live wherever the Navy tells me to live. The laws do allow me to register my vehicle in the state I'm stationed or my home state which normally only applies when I buy a car and it simpler to register locally at first. Louisiana does have the benefit of having cheap vehicle registration and permanent tags for trailers including TTs.

Now, as to "domicile police," you better believe they exist in certain states. I have had multiple run ins with CA although always resolved successfully. They sent a letter every year saying it looked like I lived in CA but didn't pay CA taxes. That was easily resolved by checking the box on the form on military. However, we also got a nasty gram from the CA highway patrol that our car with LA tags had been observed in CA over an extended time period and we owed a $500 fine in addition to having 30 days to register it in the state. The trooper I talked to it when I declared I was protected by law was not friendly and tried to pull "well your wife probably isn't so she's owes the money." I keep things in my name for that reason but law now protects military spouses.

As a full-timer, I would not stay in one location in CA an extended period without being a CA resident. I would also be careful if you have income from a state not your domicile. That doesn't mean that state is your domicile but it doesn't necessarily avoid that state's taxes either.

I had much the same experience in California. I was a Florida resident at the time I was reassigned from Spain to southern California. My car had Florida plates. My drivers license was from Florida. I lived in an apartment two miles from the air force base. I was stopped numerous times by the local police for not having California plates and for not having a California drivers license. By federal law, I could maintain my Florida residency, car registration, and drivers license. It got so bad I had to have the base's judge advocate general office intercede. It seems the local cops thought I had a spouse that worked in California, and at that point I would have been required to have the car registration changed to California. I was single at the time. I DID meet the woman who became my wife in California, but we married just before I was reassigned from California to Germany. I told my wife as we were crossing the state line that happiness was California in my rear view mirror.

I won't even begin the discussion on how California tried to say they were entitled to tax my retired pay based on my two year assignment to March Air Force Base. Money grubbing bastages!

[rehoppe]

Several states have 'residency' statutes, defining what you Must do, If you state in that state for over a certain period of time.

From what I've read and heard it's mostly Not enforced however.

I'm not trolling, so let's leave this as a 'stand alone' posting.
IF you are stopped/questioned as to your business in the state, just be careful how you frame your reply. lol Otherwise you could end up paying fines, taxes, plate fees, etc....... IF That state decides you live there!

I'm not a fulltimer. Only a part timer from Colorado, and yes my vehicles do cost me quite a bit more to own than SD, Tx, or Alaska, etc.... but that's how we pay for our roads here.

IIRC The residency threshold in Co, is 45 'continuous days'. That said, I've only known it to be enforced once in over 40 years personally. But the ticket was just south of $1500..... ouch.

[BarbaraOK]

Lots of people keep cars in different states with houses - the car is registered and insured where it is garaged. Any competent insurance agent can set it up for you. Just like you can own houses in different states (and pay property taxes on them) you can own cars in different states, etc.

Barb

[rockhillmanor]

Roadpilot wrote:
It's perfectly OK to have a residence/domicile in one state and have a car registered in another state. We live in NH and have a place in FL, where we keep a car. That is our FL car. We aren't going to register it NH and have to bring it back annually for an inspection. Our drivers license is NH. There is nothing illegal, deceitful or whatever with that.

Ah but where to you have the car 'insured' at? Car registered in one state and insurance issued in another state = no coverage if in an accident.

And how did you get plates without a Florida DL license?
As far as Florida goes they take it VERY serious about registration and vehicle insurance. Just curious because they wouldn't let me get plates.

[TechWriter]

rkortes wrote:

Executive wrote:
When deciding on a domicile state as a full timer, be sure to check on health insurance and coverage in States other than your domicile State.

Insightful post.... can you expand on this health insurance topic? I'm not quite getting what you mean. Thanks!:)

Naio wrote:
Unfortunately, a lot of us are not old enough for Medicare.

If you are under 65 (not on Medicare) and don't have COBRA or some other company/military health coverage, then you'll have to buy health insurance.

While there are other options, you'll most likely buy health insurance ON the ACA ("Obamacare") exchange or OFF the exchange (like directly from a insurance company). The advantage of buying on the ACA exchange is that you are eligible for subsidies.

However, for health plans purchased on the ACA exchange, insurance companies now base these plans and options on state counties. Think of counties as the "group" used to determine what will be offered and for how much.

Picking the "right" county to domicile in is often more important than the state you pick.

One more time -- Selecting a Domicile -- It's All about Counties.

For full timers who travel around the country, the "Holy Grail" of health insurance is a plan that has in-network service (doctors, hospitals, clinics) in every state. Typically, that was some sort of Blue Cross Blue Shield (BCBS) PPO plan.

For example . . .

• Texas -- I think one of the main reasons folks select Texas as a domicile (besides no state income tax) is the Escapees Mail Forwarding service. However, this service is based in Polk County, one of the worst Texas counties for ACA on-exchange health care. Only HMO plans are being offered in Polk County on the ACA exchange this year. There are PPO plans offered in other TX counties, but these plans seem to have only in-state doctors in their network -- not good for full timers.
  
  
• Florida -- again, chosen as a domicile I think because of no states income tax and an Escapees Mail service based out of Sumter County. However, unlike Polk County, TX, Sumter County offers BCBS "EPO" plans on the exchange which have BCBS's out-of-state network available to full timers.
  
  
• South Dakota -- no state income taxes, but PPO plans available in every state county. However, the PPO plans do not appear to have an out-of-state doctor network.
  
  
• Nevada -- the Undiscovered Country. No state income taxes. Ten Anthem BCBS PPO plans available in every NV county.
  

[tatest]

Not while full time RVing, but while working and residing outside my domicile.

The greater issue was state income taxes. My employer set me up to be paid by a foreign corporation while working in a third country. Federal IRS could handle this, filed Federal using foreign tax credits (my income tax rate was as high as 80% where I worked). State of domicile did not accept my non-residence, wanted taxes as if I was living in my domicile. So make sure you understand tax laws for your chosen domicile and any place you might work or get unearned income.

Second issue was licensing. To get a driver's license where I was living, I had to surrender my license issued in the U.S. My U.S. license would have been usable as a visitor, but not as a resident with work permit, visa, resident permit et al. Fortunately my U.S. license was held escrow, so I could retrieve it for trips to the U.S. if I didn't want to try driving on a foreign license as a visitor.

While this was having to do with residence outside the country, both issues can come up state to state, domicile vs residence, if you are not careful and a state you are visiting decides that you are a resident. The tax and licensing things come up particularly if you are working, but being someplace too long not working can also get attention.

I ran into them during six years in the military, Viet Nam era, because I kept my home of record as my domicile. I had the protection of what was the called the "Soldiers and Sailors Relief Act" but even with that I had to have the JAG office go to bat for me in one state over the driver's license thing. Another state got touchy about my using a military drivers license in an unmarked government vehicle off base, but I was able back it up with badge and law enforcement credentials.

Your problem will not be with your domicile state, rather avoiding becoming a resident of someplace you are visiting.

With respect to the bank questions, I've started making a break with local banks and credit unions that have been handling my money the past 35 years, by setting up parallel accounts at USAA (where I've been doing business for 48 years). It can be important to close out accounts in places you no longer wish to associate as eiter residence or domicile, and it helps to have established a prior relationship with a bank that operates globally when you want to finally make the break with your past.

[ctpres]

Problem may be solved if you pick Texas. Paper floating around in Austin/state capitol to allow vote for LEAVING USA. I really feel sorry for anyone that must live in CA.

[rkortes]

Smitty77 wrote:
We're in the third year of our transition to SD from CA as our state of Domicile. Due to family factors, we could not make a 'clean break' from CA, so I studied the laws carefully and we keep a good documented trail of what we're doing.

> We travel outside of CA 6 months + per year
> We retained our previous home, now our Vacation Home, so that MIL could have a place to live. (One of my BIL's is very low functioning Down Syndrome, and now in a group home at age 46, so Mom is staying close to do weekly visits, and bring him to the house for visits too. And of course, we enjoy being with Big John too, we were all together at my sisters home for Thanksgiving.)
> We also have a rental home in CA, and file a 540NR for this income.
> We've kept one vehicle registered in CA, as it is at the vacation home
> Our RV, Toad is now SD
> Driving licenses are SD
> We bank in SD, CA and back east via Penfed
> We vote in SD
> We are members of the Rapid City Elk's, and visit each time we're in SD
> We donate via Rapid City Elk's, local Rapid City Boy Scouts, and others
> We have RV and Toad and Umbrella insurance, via SD
> We have multiple policies for home and in state CA car, from CA
> Our Health Insurance, is a Group Retirement Health Care plan from BCBS North Carolina
> We have seen Dentist and Doctors in AZ, CA, MT
> Oure Financial Planner is out of North Carolina

While we are legal, we have read enough to know that CA has been aggressive in the past to people that leave the state, and come back to vacation for longer periods of time. We also know that they have hotline's established, for anyone that cares to call, to report 'suspected' violators of CA residency and DMV type rules. We will not be surprised, if we get letters or notices that someone has called us in, thinking we're not following the rules. For example, our RV, is parked on our rental property, with our SD 'THEJRNY" license plate hard to miss while driving by.

My recommendation to anyone not doing a 'clean break' from a former state of residency, is to be sure and know the rules, and follow them, and even then (sadly) be prepared to prove you are following them. I also feel it is important, to not let 'those that are their to serve us' - alter the way we live out lives.

Best to all, enjoy yourselves, and be safe,
Smitty

Very useful stuff here Smitty77.... Thanks!! 😄

[ellenbehr]

CA has gotten much more aggressive in clamping down on people who could be considered residents of the state but are not. Every RVer who spends six months or more in the state should be careful (see: http://www.nbcbayarea.com/news/local/CHP-Cracking-Down-on-Out-of-State-License-Plates-266159301.html).

The CHP has a program called "CHEATERS" with a Webesite where your neighbor can report you if they believe you haven't properly registered your plates in CA.

If you're legally a resident of a state other than CA but try to purchase a vehicle in CA, they will try to nab sales tax on that vehicle (so you'd be paying your own state sales tax, if your state has them, PLUS CA's steep (7.5% - 10%!! depending on where you're making a purchase).

Many RVers who spend 6 or more months out of the year in CA have no idea how close they're skating to the thin ice that covers CA residency.

[Smitty77]

We're in the third year of our transition to SD from CA as our state of Domicile. Due to family factors, we could not make a 'clean break' from CA, so I studied the laws carefully and we keep a good documented trail of what we're doing.

> We travel outside of CA 6 months + per year
> We retained our previous home, now our Vacation Home, so that MIL could have a place to live. (One of my BIL's is very low functioning Down Syndrome, and now in a group home at age 46, so Mom is staying close to do weekly visits, and bring him to the house for visits too. And of course, we enjoy being with Big John too, we were all together at my sisters home for Thanksgiving.)
> We also have a rental home in CA, and file a 540NR for this income.
> We've kept one vehicle registered in CA, as it is at the vacation home
> Our RV, Toad is now SD
> Driving licenses are SD
> We bank in SD, CA and back east via Penfed
> We vote in SD
> We are members of the Rapid City Elk's, and visit each time we're in SD
> We donate via Rapid City Elk's, local Rapid City Boy Scouts, and others
> We have RV and Toad and Umbrella insurance, via SD
> We have multiple policies for home and in state CA car, from CA
> Our Health Insurance, is a Group Retirement Health Care plan from BCBS North Carolina
> We have seen Dentist and Doctors in AZ, CA, MT
> Oure Financial Planner is out of North Carolina

While we are legal, we have read enough to know that CA has been aggressive in the past to people that leave the state, and come back to vacation for longer periods of time. We also know that they have hotline's established, for anyone that cares to call, to report 'suspected' violators of CA residency and DMV type rules. We will not be surprised, if we get letters or notices that someone has called us in, thinking we're not following the rules. For example, our RV, is parked on our rental property, with our SD 'THEJRNY" license plate hard to miss while driving by.

My recommendation to anyone not doing a 'clean break' from a former state of residency, is to be sure and know the rules, and follow them, and even then (sadly) be prepared to prove you are following them. I also feel it is important, to not let 'those that are their to serve us' - alter the way we live out lives.

Best to all, enjoy yourselves, and be safe,
Smitty

[restlesswind]

cwdavis wrote:

BarbaraOK wrote:

rkortes wrote:
…..One of my full-timing buddies told me that you shouldn't spend more than 6 months in a particular state without being considered a resident. He is originally from California but now domiciles in Texas (Escapees). ….

Each state has their own definitions of a resident. In Arizona it is being continuous for over 7 months. Other states have different definitions. Generally if you aren't working, there isn't much of a problem. However, local jurisdictions may impose personal property taxes on RVs in a park longer than 30 days - so you need to do a little research when making decisions about long term stays.

Barb

I'm wondering how the state of AZ, or any state, would be able to track anyone who might overstay their allotted time

Here is paragraph from the ARIZONA DEPARTMENT OF REVENUE, PROCEDURE FOR DETERMINING RESIDENCY STATUS (ITP 92-1):

"Every individual who spends, in the aggregate, more than nine months of the taxable year within Arizona is presumed to be a resident. The
presumption may be overcome by competent evidence that the individual
is in the state for a temporary or transitory purpose."

Intent is a critically important element of determining ones domicile -- if you do not intend to make Arizona your primary residence, you can visit as long as you care to without incurring a tax obligation on income earned outside Arizona.

[BarbaraOK]

Residency requirement for driver's license from the Arizona Driver's License manual:

Resident Definition
State law requires that you obtain an
Arizona driver license and registration
immediately if any one of the following
applies. If you:
•
Work in Arizona (other than for
seasonal agricultural work).
•
Place children in school without
paying the tuition rate of a non-
resident.
•
Have a business with an office in
Arizona, that bases and operates
vehicles in this state.
•
Obtain a state license or pay school
tuition fees at the same rate as an
Arizona resident.
•
Have a business that operates vehicles
to transport goods or passengers
within Arizona.
•
Remain in Arizona for a total of seven
months or more during any calendar
year, regardless of your permanent
residence.
•
Are registered to vote in this state.



While Dept. of Revenue says 9 months, DL says 7 months - so I'd go with the 7 month limit.

Barb

[rkortes]

cwdavis wrote:

BarbaraOK wrote:

rkortes wrote:
…..One of my full-timing buddies told me that you shouldn't spend more than 6 months in a particular state without being considered a resident. He is originally from California but now domiciles in Texas (Escapees). ….

Each state has their own definitions of a resident. In Arizona it is being continuous for over 7 months. Other states have different definitions. Generally if you aren't working, there isn't much of a problem. However, local jurisdictions may impose personal property taxes on RVs in a park longer than 30 days - so you need to do a little research when making decisions about long term stays.

Barb

Here is paragraph from the ARIZONA DEPARTMENT OF REVENUE, PROCEDURE FOR DETERMINING RESIDENCY STATUS (ITP 92-1):

"Every individual who spends, in the aggregate, more than nine months of the taxable year within Arizona is presumed to be a resident. The
presumption may be overcome by competent evidence that the individual
is in the state for a temporary or transitory purpose."

Intent is a critically important element of determining ones domicile -- if you do not intend to make Arizona your primary residence, you can visit as long as you care to without incurring a tax obligation on income earned outside Arizona.

Good stuff and good to know...

California's is a bit more nebulous. I can't seem to find a specific number of days:

Factors to consider are as follows:
• Amount of time you spend in California versus amount of time you spend outside California.
• Location of your spouse/RDP and children.
• Location of your principal residence.
• State that issued your driver’s license.
• State where your vehicles are registered.
• State in which you maintain your professional licenses.
• State in which you are registered to vote.
• Location of the banks where you maintain accounts.
• The origination point of your financial transactions.
• Location of your medical professionals and other healthcare providers (doctors, dentists etc.), accountants, and attorneys.
• Location of your social ties, such as your place of worship, professional associations, or social and country clubs of which you are a member.
• Location of your real property and investments.
• Permanence of your work assignments in California. .
This is only a partial list of the factors to consider. . Consider all the facts of your particular situation to determine your residency status

[cwdavis]

BarbaraOK wrote:

rkortes wrote:
…..One of my full-timing buddies told me that you shouldn't spend more than 6 months in a particular state without being considered a resident. He is originally from California but now domiciles in Texas (Escapees). ….

Each state has their own definitions of a resident. In Arizona it is being continuous for over 7 months. Other states have different definitions. Generally if you aren't working, there isn't much of a problem. However, local jurisdictions may impose personal property taxes on RVs in a park longer than 30 days - so you need to do a little research when making decisions about long term stays.

Barb

Here is paragraph from the ARIZONA DEPARTMENT OF REVENUE, PROCEDURE FOR DETERMINING RESIDENCY STATUS (ITP 92-1):

"Every individual who spends, in the aggregate, more than nine months of the taxable year within Arizona is presumed to be a resident. The
presumption may be overcome by competent evidence that the individual
is in the state for a temporary or transitory purpose."

Intent is a critically important element of determining ones domicile -- if you do not intend to make Arizona your primary residence, you can visit as long as you care to without incurring a tax obligation on income earned outside Arizona.