Full time as a both a necessity and a lifestyle choice

[namtrag]

Hi All,

My wife and I are 50ish, and without going into many details, are not in the greatest financial shape. My house keeps dropping in value, and despite putting my life savings down 6 years ago, and paying 6 years of house payments, we are still upside down by 40k +. Divorce obligations are pretty steep as well, so for another 3 years, minimum, we will have zero money to save. To top it all off, we have no retirement of any kind.

We love being outdoors, and found backpacking and car camping as a way to get away from our stress fairly inexpensively. We have started discussing a plan where anywhere from 10 years from now to retirement at 67, we can somehow get out of our S&B house, buy an RV (class A or C), and go on the road as FTers, not driving constantly, but putting down for a month or two at a time. I am an accountant, so I could do bookkeeping, income taxes, and the like from the RV as long as I have an internet connection. The hard part will be finding clients!

I see RV living as fairly inexpensive compared to my S&B existence, with its mortgage payment of $1700 (PITI), 250 electric bill, 100 water bill, 50 sewer bill, and all the repairs and maintenance on top of that ( all through the age of 75 before it's paid off) . I almost see no other option for us as we grow older, or very few other options. I cannot see the logic of continuing to pay on a house which will never come back to what I owe. Much less having to work until 75 just to pay the mortgage off.

I see short-selling or renting out my house at a 200-300 negative cash flow per month, then RV or renting a small condo as one slightly viable option as we approach "retirement" as we expect our SS at 67 to be about 2800-3000 per month, which would hardly cover our current housing costs plus food.

I know we are not the only ones in precarious financial situations, but it seems like most of what I see on these types of forums are retired people with ss, full military or civilian pensions, and financial security, who are rving as a fun way to retire vs doing it because you can't afford other ways to live when you get old.

I would be interested to hear from those who are doing it on ss or small pensions, and is it doable, or a big struggle?

[katleman]

I've read the other thoughtful replies.

I am also in my early fifties, facing a lesser retirement as well. I would like to make a run at full-timing in the next 10-15 years.

But I have a leg up on the OP in that I have spent 16 weeks on the road in an 24' RV already, through various family trips, of 2-5 weeks in duration each. So I know what to expect on the road, and how much I enjoy time on the road. I love primitive sites, which will greatly reduce my costs.

Renting is pricey, but would be worthwhile to know if you can even stand FT. Or if you can find someone to loan you theirs, etc. And stay in places you expect to use, rather than fancy private campgrounds.

Full-timing can be cost effective, but will be even more depressing if you don't enjoy it.

[RVUSA]

MotorPro wrote:
You must know many accountants.

More than you would think, obviously. :B

[MotorPro]

RVUSA wrote:

namtrag wrote:
I know we are not the only ones in precarious financial situations,

You are the only accountant I have ever heard of in this precarious financial situation.

You must know many accountants.

[Flanz]

namtrag wrote:
Haha, I knew the accountant judgers would come out! How many fat, smoking doctors do you guys see? Lots!

I am an excellent accountant, but life choices such as having my now ex wife stay home with our kids for many years, which caused a great strain on our finances, putting my life savings down on my house right before the market plunged, the cost of small group health insurance ($2,350 per month for family plan), and my divorce have put me down for the count. Just trying to get back up before the count is up!

I am not making excuses or asking for sympathy for my own choices, but the situation is pressing down like a heavy stone, and I am just investigating alternatives.

The thread is taking on a life of its own, and that's really cool.

Witness protection program.....Just kidding.

Unfortunately, we live in a society of people that want/need instant gratification. People, and especially YOUNG people who want it NOW. These people do not look at the big picture and plan accordingly. Now I'm not saying this is the OP, believe I feel his pain. Back when my wife and I were first married, we went into some serious debt. House, credit cards, car loans, you name it. We picked our selves up, cutout ALL non-essential spending and in 2 - 3 years will retire with 7 figures under our belts. It took us about 3yrs to clean everything up and we are now in our early 50's ready to move on to fulltime RVing.

My advise, loose everything you don't need. Cable, cell phones, restaurants, take out/away, movies etc.... Consolidate ASAP. This is what we did in our early 20's when we got married. It's now kinda funny because we watch as our friends struggle now, in their 50's, and are doing what we did in our 20's. these are the same people who gave us a hard time when we refused the many nights out and not throwing things on the credit cards. They always said to us, come lets have a party, we'll take care of it next month. Well guess what, NEXT MONTH IS CALLING.....

[jmtandem]

Haha, I knew the accountant judgers would come out! How many fat, smoking doctors do you guys see? Lots!

I am an excellent accountant, but life choices such as having my now ex wife stay home with our kids for many years, which caused a great strain on our finances, putting my life savings down on my house right before the market plunged, the cost of small group health insurance ($2,350 per month for family plan), and my divorce have put me down for the count. Just trying to get back up before the count is up!

I am not making excuses or asking for sympathy for my own choices, but the situation is pressing down like a heavy stone, and I am just investigating alternatives.

The thread is taking on a life of its own, and that's really cool.

Every poker player knows that he can only play the cards in his hand that he has been dealt. As it relates to your home, the important thing for you to do now is to be that great poker player and know when to hold your cards and stay in the game or fold the cards and move on. And only you know that.

[namtrag]

Haha, I knew the accountant judgers would come out! How many fat, smoking doctors do you guys see? Lots!

I am an excellent accountant, but life choices such as having my now ex wife stay home with our kids for many years, which caused a great strain on our finances, putting my life savings down on my house right before the market plunged, the cost of small group health insurance ($2,350 per month for family plan), and my divorce have put me down for the count. Just trying to get back up before the count is up!

I am not making excuses or asking for sympathy for my own choices, but the situation is pressing down like a heavy stone, and I am just investigating alternatives.

The thread is taking on a life of its own, and that's really cool.

[Larryzv7]

CKNSLS wrote:

Larryzv7 wrote:
It might surprise you how some people are paying for their full-time RV lifestyle. In my experience I have found that generally those who want to do it find an ingenious way to do it and those who have to do it usually struggle with having to do it.

I met a guy and his family while camping in Oregon; this guy had a college degree in graphic design but could not find work in his field, so he was working as a lumberjack, doing lumberjack jobs in Oregon and then going up to Washington State to take on other lumberjack jobs. His wife was home schooling their two kids as they were all full-time RVing, traveling from one job site to another.

There are all kinds of people out here fulltime RVing in all sorts of situations. I would say that a large portion are retired but there is also a younger group out here working as they go. This lifestyle is not for everyone but those who want it usually find a way to get it. Lots of people fulltime until their health don’t permit it anymore, regardless, this lifestyle requires a bit of creativity and ingenuity. But those who say they have to do it usually feel stuck and can’t wait to stop doing it.

With all due respect-getting a degree in Graphic Design is like getting a degree called-"Underwater Basket Weaving" it's totally useless.

That was his problem.

Underwater Basket Weaving is probably more marketable, although there was a time, many moons ago, when a degree in Graphic Design was sort after by hi-tech companies. Back when computing was brand new and people needed other knowledgeable people to help them design websites, etc. But true, those days are gone, and lots of once promising careers, such as graphic design, have been left obsolete.

[CKNSLS]

Larryzv7 wrote:
It might surprise you how some people are paying for their full-time RV lifestyle. In my experience I have found that generally those who want to do it find an ingenious way to do it and those who have to do it usually struggle with having to do it.

I met a guy and his family while camping in Oregon; this guy had a college degree in graphic design but could not find work in his field, so he was working as a lumberjack, doing lumberjack jobs in Oregon and then going up to Washington State to take on other lumberjack jobs. His wife was home schooling their two kids as they were all full-time RVing, traveling from one job site to another.

There are all kinds of people out here fulltime RVing in all sorts of situations. I would say that a large portion are retired but there is also a younger group out here working as they go. This lifestyle is not for everyone but those who want it usually find a way to get it. Lots of people fulltime until their health don’t permit it anymore, regardless, this lifestyle requires a bit of creativity and ingenuity. But those who say they have to do it usually feel stuck and can’t wait to stop doing it.

With all due respect-getting a degree in Graphic Design is like getting a degree called-"Underwater Basket Weaving" it's totally useless.

That was his problem.

[jmtandem]

the irony is everyone trying to show an accountant how to manage and generate income. LOL just awesome.

The OP keeps the information about his lifestyle and finances close to his vest. What is fascinating is that the OP appears willing to limp along with the struggle to get to the point the home is paid for, then sell it and buy an RV and travel. Who, at 67 years old, would not want a paid for home? Rent it out and get some RVing income, but keep the home to come back to when tired of RVing. Selling the home to get into RVing only means the OP will need to purchase another home, another mortgage, and back into the payments game within a few years after starting RVing. The calendar is not on anybody's side getting into RVing at 67 years young and to that end the OP would most likely have (with good health) about ten years to RV before wanting back into a stick and brick. I can not imagine anybody selling a paid for home at 67 and then need to buy another one within a decade; perhaps much sooner. Something is just not clicking somewhere.

The only thing that makes sense to me is if the OP is so deep into debt and cannot see daylight, has tried to look at everything, has tried to get help, and must off the home now that the RV life might have merit. So might living in an apartment, living with family or relatives, perhaps some debt consolidation, working more hours or two jobs, cutting out restaurant dining, eliminating nice cars, defering expensive vacations, etc.

The RVing life is a life of adventure, being willing to roll with the small space punches, wanderlust, love of travel and meeting others, and seeing places and doing things that are hard to accomplish from a fixed base. To some extent it is all about making memories. Everybody that fulltimes in an RV talks about the memories and freedom to travel; rarely do they equate full time living with being on a constant vacation. It is clearly not for everybody nor is it a panacea for being in debt and having a home that is worth less than the payoff. If the OP can generate a source of income living in an RV, why not augment the family's existing income now? The OP indicates no retirement income at all, yet says Social Security will be around $3000 a month? Is that not retirement income?

I think the OP is smart for getting good solid feedback from this thread; what he does with it will be interesting. I hope whatever choices he makes works for his family.

[Francesca_Knowl]

RVUSA wrote:
the irony is everyone trying to show an accountant how to manage and generate income. LOL just awesome.

Not half as ironic as an Accountant asking us to begin with, though. :@

[RVUSA]

the irony is everyone trying to show an accountant how to manage and generate income. LOL just awesome.

[Larryzv7]

It might surprise you how some people are paying for their full-time RV lifestyle. In my experience I have found that generally those who want to do it find an ingenious way to do it and those who have to do it usually struggle with having to do it.

I met a guy and his family while camping in Oregon; this guy had a college degree in graphic design but could not find work in his field, so he was working as a lumberjack, doing lumberjack jobs in Oregon and then going up to Washington State to take on other lumberjack jobs. His wife was home schooling their two kids as they were all full-time RVing, traveling from one job site to another.

There are all kinds of people out here fulltime RVing in all sorts of situations. I would say that a large portion are retired but there is also a younger group out here working as they go. This lifestyle is not for everyone but those who want it usually find a way to get it. Lots of people fulltime until their health don’t permit it anymore, regardless, this lifestyle requires a bit of creativity and ingenuity. But those who say they have to do it usually feel stuck and can’t wait to stop doing it.

[Larryzv7]

namtrag wrote:
The rental market here is such that, currently, I could rent the house perhaps for $250 less than my payment. But more likely it would be $350 less than my payment.

Sounds like you have a rather high mortgage. I say this because rents are usually much more than a monthly mortgage, and I bought my mortgage payment down by refinancing several years ago.

Anyway, good luck in your journey. There are always options; although sometimes the options are not desirable, nonetheless, usually more than one option often exists. Seeing all of the options is another story.

[namtrag]

I woke up and was amazed at the topic still going strong...lots of opinions and great advice. Yes, we do both work full-time now, but our only daughter at home is in community college. Once she is out on her own, the short sale to cut our losses will be a real possibility.

It is true that the house may come back in value, perhaps enough to pay the mortgage off, but I still have to dump a lot of money in it to fix things just to live in and have a chance to sell it. That being said, at least some of the payment is going to principal, so that helps a little, and in ten years, may make a big difference in whether we are still upside down.

The rental market here is such that, currently, I could rent the house perhaps for $250 less than my payment. But more likely it would be $350 less than my payment.

I have noticed that the rosy picture syndrome is pretty common on the blogs I have started reading, but at the same time, I can also sense an excitement at not going with the flow and forging a different way of living. That's what attracted us: the fact we can maybe save some coin, but more importantly, enjoy our time in the years we have left by not being a slave to a S&B house.

[John_Joey]

I commend you on your efforts, desires, and planning.

I've been very lucky in life so I can not speak directly to your issues. But I have learned a few things that might help. The first is yes, you can have a good retirement RV'ing on SS. I've seen it done while on the road.

Second, what goes up comes down, and what goes down comes up. Ten years is an awful long time for an investment. You just may find yourself making money on that real estate. This isn't the first time in history where home owners became upside down only to later find themselves in a hot market.

Keep the faith, and much luck to you.

On Edit:

Let me just add one more thing. Many of these blogs and pictures paint a very rosy picture of the lifestyle. The simple truth is it has it's issues also. Nice thing about pictures is they are not 360 degrees, and blogs are from just one perspective. Case in point is a FT/work camper that I have much respect for. When I visited his site that his blog/pictures made look wonderful it was really a site full of busted up concrete next to a motel of homeless people sitting on old chairs and couches outside trying to beat the heat. Whatever you do don't jump from the frying pan into the fire based on an unknown lifestyle that is portrayed on the internet without doing due diligence.