1986 Dodge B250 Camperwagon | Engine And Tranny Questions

[VanCamp]

Hi all,

I recently bought 86 Dodge camperwagon with 90k KM on it. I have quickly found outthat while ok it does not have near enough power to handle the mountains of British Columbia. This is the extended Camperwagon i think as it if 9foot 2in high and 20ft long.

It has the 318 in it.

So I know that a 360 should be a straight swap and am considering that. Will anything larger bolt right in such as a 400 or 440?

Also talking to my mechanic he has told me that if I go for a larger engine than I will also need to change the transmission. From what i can find this van comes with the 727 but I do not know forsure. Anybody else know?

If it is the 727 it should handle the larger engine no?

Thanks for any help!

[babun]

You really can't beat the Mopar crate engines. Something like this
with a more suitable cam for the rv's reving range.
408 ci and you should get about 350 horses with a detuned camshaft.
BUT look at those torque numbers!!! 400ft lbs easy!!
http://www.jegs.com/i/Blueprint-Engines/138/BPC4082CT/10002/-1?parentProductId=1617620#moreDetails

[VanCamp]

richardg40 wrote:
We also have a Dodge RT 190 P with the 318 . Right now we are on a trip from our home province of NB to BC or Alberta . Because of our van being underpowered we decided to turn around ( this time ) at Lake Louise . Locals described the mountains and passes and i am pretty sure our RT would not make it up theses steep mountains .

Just going up from a dead stop to Lake Louise we had to crawl up very slow and that wasn't that bad of a hill .

On a positive note this 318 gives us avg 19 mpg and so far on this trip we drove 7000 km and still no need to add oil ( Mobil 1 )

My uncle has the same van just 6 years older and he has over 400,000 km on his van .

I also got my van checked by the local Dodge dealer before leaving and they said van was in terrific shape .

We still wish we could make it to BC and will look into other routes for next time in a few years .

Had fun on this trip . Happy camping ...

That's too bad you had to turn around there, things were just starting to get beautiful. I think you would probably make it but it would have been in 1st gear and taken quite some time hehe. We will be upgrading to a 360 with a stroker kit and few other performance upgrades before we leave to BC next spring. You guys may want to look at a similar upgrade in the future so you are free to go where you want with your van.

[richardg40]

We also have a Dodge RT 190 P with the 318 . Right now we are on a trip from our home province of NB to BC or Alberta . Because of our van being underpowered we decided to turn around ( this time ) at Lake Louise . Locals described the mountains and passes and i am pretty sure our RT would not make it up theses steep mountains .

Just going up from a dead stop to Lake Louise we had to crawl up very slow and that wasn't that bad of a hill .

On a positive note this 318 gives us avg 19 mpg and so far on this trip we drove 7000 km and still no need to add oil ( Mobil 1 )

My uncle has the same van just 6 years older and he has over 400,000 km on his van .

I also got my van checked by the local Dodge dealer before leaving and they said van was in terrific shape .

We still wish we could make it to BC and will look into other routes for next time in a few years .

Had fun on this trip . Happy camping ...

[VanCamp]

From researching further a stroker seems like it would be a good option.

[VanCamp]

Thanks for all the info. I am going to change out the rear gears here pretty quick. I have a few lines on 360s so that is going to happen as well, we really need that bottom end power.

@booster I would love to hear some more info on increasing the 360s bottom and mid. I cannot find much information on that specifically as everything I find is more for street style HP gains.

Would a stroker kit be something worth doing? We don't want to get to crazy and the build budget is around 3-4k including headers and exhaust, and possibly a cooling system upgrade.

The van has a 8.25 rear end and I am hoping the 727 currently in it can handle the increases in torque until we put 4x4 in it as it will get a change than.

[booster]

The 318 and 360 are of the same engine family, but are not the same style of engine. The 318s are more of a "square" engine with bore and stroke similar. The 360 is a long stroke, big main bearing diameter engine. The long stroke increases low end torque more than the size in CID would indicate. A relatively stock 360 out of a truck will normally outpull a built 318 as most of the hotrod parts increase the upper end, and reduce the low end, in a 318.

I have seen relatively low rpm 360s put together that can top 400 ft-lb of torque, maybe 310hp, with a redline under 5K. Such an engine does need to be built be someone who knows what they are doing more than the local garage, but the parts are all readily available.

727 transmissions may all be the same design, but the guts are all different for the different applications. A 426 Hemi got a 727 and so did some very low hp engines, but they were not the same transmission. Truck ones are also different from car ones. 727s can be built to handle pretty much anything you could do to a 360, but a stock 318 727 would probably have an issue.

In that van, you should have a 4:10 rear end. If you have a lower numerical than that, you should change that out first thing.

[ol__grouch]

The 318 and 360 are similar engines on the same basic design. They do not interchange without some modifications. Physically where one came out, the other will go in. However, one is internally balanced and one is externally balanced.

Before I did anything else, I'd do a good tuneup with new plugs, wires and also a new cap and rotor. Get one with either brass or copper electrodes. This gives a touch more fire over time as the aluminum electrodes tend to corrode.

Don't worry about kicking down into second gear. That's your passing gear. You only have three gears. Find a vacuum gauge. Hook that puppy up and watch it. If it drops fast but you haven't changed your throttle pressure, you may have an exhaust issue. I tracked one down at my shop that even the dealer couldn't find. If your catalytic converter or muffler is partly rusted inside, a flap of metal can flip under heavy pressure and partly block it. When the pressure drops, it can flip back. Rust or a rodent making a home in your exhaust can cause issues under load.

As for a big block, it will physically fit but you'll have to change just about everything and maintenance will be a nightmare. Remember, this is based on a van, not a pickup. A little more room will be available if you use a 383 or 400. Those are low deck engines. The 413, 426 and 440 are raised deck engines.

Your best bang for the buck will be a gear change. If you have 3.55 gears for instance, 3.73 will wake the van up and your top end won't tank. 3.91 gears will eat fuel and also cut your top speed a bit.

Keep in mind, you have a brick on wheels. I had a GMC unit about like yours. It had 4 speeds rather than 3 but still would kick donw on steep grades.

[924guy]

Any power increase should also be accompanied by complete drive train service (trany , drive shaft/ u joints, rear end, brakes etc..) torque is great but things will break without due care .get the shop to include this in the price if using one...

😉

[VanCamp]

Thanks guys 🙂 I had planned on changing the gears when the 4x4 conversion was done. I hadn't really thought of doing it before that but it is a great idea that will help us out until we get the engine swap done this winter.

It is seeming like a built 360 is going to be the way to go. It should bolt up but we need to make sure we have the flywheel from the 360. I don't really see us needing to cruise at any more than 105 KM/h and that will be pretty rare even.

Great info guys ty!

[landyacht318]

LA 318s can be built to be respectable in the HP/torque figures, but most people just decide to build the 360 instead.

My LA 318 is an 89 with a roller cam and TBI fuel injection and is rated at only 185HP, only 10HP more than the non roller cam with a carb.

These are not high revving engines and headers will be of extremely limited benefit and likely a detriment at lower rpms, where the grunt is more desirable in a camper van

The 2 barrel carb is certainly a limiting factor.

The rear gear ratio is a huge factor. 3.23s were put behind many 727s and it is too tall for when a camper conversion is added. My dodge has 3.55 rear gear. I turn ~2100 rpm at 65mph/~105 KM/h in overdrive and Locked up with an A-500 transmission. In third it is about 3000 rpm at 65mph

Making one of these into a 4x4 is a serious project. If you have the funds for that conversion, then you have the funds for a built 360.
The 727 is a capable transmission. Am not quite sure exactly how much torque it can handle though.

Best of luck with this project.

[Handbasket]

Maybe change the rear end ratio? I doubt it'll hurt the mileage much more than a 360 or a hop up of your 318. Especially if you're going to a 4x4 conversion, you'll probably want it anyway. Just match your likely front axle ratio.

Jim

[VanCamp]

Thanks for the welcome. I will post a few pictures this weekend. I should have included a bit more detail as to what we are doing with our campervan and the mountains.

It will make it up all but the steepest on those it will actually stop. Also while on the highway it really is hard to keep it in 3rd gear as it constantly wants to kick down into 2nd because of the power issues.

The engine is running just like it should according to the mechanic who checked it out a few days ago. he checked spark, manifold (air flow), timing, and took it for a spin. He said it works as it should just doesn't have enough oomph for that van. I also took it to the transmission shop and it came back with a green light.

I have asked him also about just beefing up the 318 as it actually reacts very well to a after market combo of:

Mild cam Upgrade
4 barrel
Intake
Headers

Can boost it up close to an extra 100HP. But it is still missing that low end grunt and torque we need.

We need that because we spend most of our time way in the back country on some pretty white knuckle mountain roads. We need that torque on the climbs and we need some more hold on the big steep descents where relying just on brakes will burn em up.

We are also planning on putting a 4WD conversion into it in the near future so again more HP and torque will be needed.

So by the sounds of it there should be no problem bolting up a 360 to the current transmission. If we go with a 360 it will have a performance rebuild on it so we have more torque and HP.

[Golden_HVAC]

Try a rebuilt distributor. It will do wonders to improve the power of your 318. That engine can make a lot of power, but it requires some things. Good spark is one key thing.

If you change to premium fuel, you can advance the timing a bit, and this will also make more power, but it will ping on 87 octane fuel, and get worse mileage when running retarded and lower octane fuel. Higher octane allows more advanced timing, and more power, thus slightly better MPG.

Check with a place like 'Clutches Unlimited' in Midway City, California, and see if they can rebuild your distributor. When you take it out, mark it's location, and point it the same position when you put it back. You would need a timing light to do this job correctly, or take it to a place that can rebuild it, and set the dwell and timing correctly. . .

The 318 can make lots of power. The 360" is only about 15% larger, but has more rotating mass, so really not a lot more power. The newer 5.9L can make over 300 HP, while a older 440 can not.

The 727 transmission can bolt up to the 318 or 360. But if you are looking at donor 440" engine from another motorhome (pre- 1979) you should also get the matching transmission, as the bell housing is probably a different bolt pattern. However the 727 is only a 3 speed, and not known for it's great gas mileage. If you have overdrive, it is not the 1970's version of the 727.

Yes a "RV Cam" will also produce more power, but it takes a lot to change it out, like removing the radiator, so you can remove the water pump, cam chain, and then slide the cam out of the engine, it is about 3' long, and must slide out forwards, through the space that your radiator occupies. .

You might find that rebuilding the distributor, and replacing worn or broken springs is all that you need.

Good luck,

Fred.

[gbopp]

Welcome to the forum. I don't have the answers for your questions.
But, when you say it doesn't have the power to handle the mountains, will it not make it up the mountain? Or is it just slow because it's underpowered?
A lot of RV's go slow up mountains.

Is your 318 tuned and running properly?
Would it be more cost effective to do some modifications to the 318, headers, etc., to get a little more power?
RVing isn't a race. My 96 Southwind, 454, is no ball of fire going up mountains but, it always gets us where we're going.

Good luck with whatever you decide. Keep us updated.
Please, post a picture of your Camperwagon when you get a chance.