2000 Newmar Dutchstar Towing Capacity Question

[Plumber101010]

Here’s the relevant specs:
Model 3851
Length : 38
Chassis : Freightliner XC Raised Rail
Engine : 300 HP. CAT Turbo Diesel
Towing Capacity : 5,000 pounds
Mileage: 100k (which I actually prefer to lower miles)

My 2015 Duramax Crew with ARE commercial topper and fully loaded around 9,000 lbs

Question: Please, in seeking advice I only ask for 3 simple things. No comments or questions about WHY I have to tow this truck, it’s an absolute must and it’s not open for discussion. 2nd, no liability lizards, who will never get around to answering the question but go on and on about how I’m crazy to do it, will be a hazard to everyone around me, blah blah, it’s people like me that give RV’ers a bad name (never believed we had a bad name) And 3rd please, hands on individuals that actually have either tried it and had no issues at all, or tried it and blew the transmission going up a hill! LOL

Obviously I’m asking the question, so that doesn’t mean I’m planning on doing it if it can’t, so don’t assume I am anyway and lecture 🙂 If I was going to do it, I wouldn’t be posting this question LOL.

My point is, I am very mechanical myself and I can guesstimate as good as anybody else. So I’m not looking for guesses but looking for the experts out there. The problem is this, I am very mechanical and can fix absolutely anything. But I have absolutely NO experience with a diesel motorhome. So everything I do, I will be learning from scratch for the first time. Doesn’t scare me, but I’m not necessarily looking forward to learning new stuff at my age, 58.

In the market for a diesel pusher and I need something that CAN tow this truck. I particularly like this one model that I am looking at. Of course capacity is 5000. I have been reading more articles about this, literally all night for the last several hours, that I can stand and so now it’s time to post once I have all this information under my belt.

My own personal guesstimate, is that if I reinforce with a receiver hitch, I won’t have any problems concerning the frame. I also don’t plan on pulling this with a trailer, but keeping all four wheels on the ground and have a new receiver hitch installed in front. That can only be a major plus as far as tongue weight goes / the cantilever affect of possibly having the nose go up.

And again, my guesstimate after all my research is it won’t be a problem, but is the engine transmission combination good enough, powerful enough, to be able to handle the extra weight when towing? Again my gut tells me yes knowing nothing about these things!

Now when I say i research, I’m not just talking about reading articles and other people‘s comments which of course I did a lot of. I’m talking much deeper research, such as liability issues with the manufacturer, warranty issues with the manufacturer, to say that in lowering the towing rating, less chance of one of the units coming back they have to fix under warranty. That’s just a fact of life that a lot of people don’t like to admit to, but is true all the same. Manufacturers will lower the capacity for lots of reasons that has NOTHING to do with the actual fact that they can tow a lot more weight!

Knowing they are basically built on a truck frame, I just can’t IMAGINE my Duramax being able to tow 13,000 pounds, but this gigantic diesel pusher on a freightliner frame only FIVE???? Those ratios just seem WAY off to me right from the get-go. Heck my minivan can tow 5000 pounds! That’s not much weight.

All things being said, I would probably not ask and just do it. However, as I said, I am far from an expert on MH’s and I would be foolish to make an assumption on something that I have absolutely NO experience with. TT’s yes. Motorhomes not by a long shot.

So again, without jumping into “liability land”, can somebody explain to me from a mechanical standpoint that I will be able to understand, logically, why in the world this gigantic BEAST can NOT tow more than my minivan?

Thanks!!!!!

[Plumber101010]

“Delete”

[Plumber101010]

OK everyone, I thank you very much for all your excellent replies and to be honest, I wasn't expecting so many positive replies in saying it could be done! Deep down inside I had already convince myself that 9 out of 10, if not 10 out of 10, we’re just going to tell me it can’t be done and don’t push your luck and move on 🙂

Pleasantly surprised at the responses and they perfectly coincide it with my own personal feelings having no experience other than simply being a contractor that has been towing many many things in a lifetime. But it was an answer that had to be ascertained before I even made an offer on it.

I think we are good to go at this point! Thanks again everyone this is a great site 🙂

[Plumber101010]

dougrainer wrote:
Tow Capacity has to do with the HITCH that is installed, NOT the Chassis or Powertrain. Newmar installed 5000 lb hitches. The HITCH is rated at a MAX of 5000 lbs. Later, Newmar and Monaco and others installed 10k hitches. BUT, if you increase above 5000 lbs you will have to beef up the Hitch and its mounting to the chassis frame. LOTS of Diesel owners have done that to pull loads greater than 5000 lbs. Doug

🙂 Happier and happier I am becoming! LOL

[NYCEGUY01]

What does the sticker in the actual coach say ?
I have a 2001 Dutch star and the ratings in the 2001 brochure are way off the actual coach.
My 38' actually has the 330 motor and the higher weight ratings the brochure says only the 40' models have...

[mike_brez]

K Charles wrote:

Plumber101010 wrote:

mike brez wrote:

K Charles wrote:
GCWR minus GVWR. There brochure says it's 324000 and 27400

I think your #s are a little off :B

I agree, the specifications I am showing is tad under 26,000 fully loaded!

That was a typo, spec says 32,400 and 27,400

That's why I put a :B in the post

[K_Charles]

Plumber101010 wrote:

mike brez wrote:

K Charles wrote:
GCWR minus GVWR. There brochure says it's 324000 and 27400

I think your #s are a little off :B

I agree, the specifications I am showing is tad under 26,000 fully loaded!

That was a typo, spec says 32,400 and 27,400

[Trumpet_Player]

Can we assume by the OP's name that they are a plumber? If so, I have to wonder if they follow code when working in their trade? I would almost bet they do, because when an inspector shows up to sign off on a permit, if code has not been followed, then there is no approval... job stopped. See, codes and capacities are in place for very good reasons.

Now, I have seen some answers here that are very far from being accurate. If this guy really wants good information it won't come from here. Maybe a call to Freightliner might enlighten them to the engineering involved in establishing ratings and capacities (axle and brake ratings etc.). Just a thought...

[OLYLEN]

Had the same frame(only with the 330 Cat), had a hitch, truck trailer shop add to the hitch to go to 10000#, xtra welds and a couple gussets. Ya you might be a bit slow going up the hill but so are the big trucks. I would add a Scan gauge so you can keep an eye on trans temps and digital rather than a swinging needle on motor temp. Would also keep the Cat at 2200 or a little better RPM for best cooling on the hills, pass's. On the welding unhook the batteries to keep the electronics safe.

LEN

[discovery4us]

I dinghy tow a 3/4 ton CC Silverado with a Polaris RZR in the bed. Never got a fully loaded weight but I would guesstimate at 8,000 lbs. fully loaded. I have 275 HP so I will never set a speed record but still plenty of power to go anywhere I want.

I am certainly pushing the limits of my DP as you will be but it can be done and done safely. Reinforce the hitch and frame as needed (remember almost no tongue weight when flat towing just pushing/pulling forces), expect slower acceleration and hill climbing, stopping may be a little longer but I see/feel no difference. I find myself having to look in the camera just to confirm it is still behind me. And then the obvious make sure the tow bar is up to the challenge, auxiliary lights on the truck, and some sort of auxiliary brake system for the truck. Length can also come into play. I have a 36" DP and with the CC short bed hooked up I am just under the 65' mark.

Also one thing that can affect tow ratings is which Allison you have. A call to freightliner revealed that my DP was rated at 5,000 lbs. towing because of a 5 speed 2000 series Allison on the Fleetwood spec. sheet which was not accurate. I have a 6 speed 3000 series which according to freightliner would have allowed a 10,000 lb. rating.

[Plumber101010]

I hear I need to get something before the computer age, I think that’s a 1999 I forget now I read so much, but I’m more particular about it looks like the newer models even though it’s old. This particular unit is unbelievable. It’s painted and it looks like it just came off the factory show room floor. You could not tell the difference between this and a 2018. That’s what I love about it. Along with high mileage it’s a winning combination for me around the $45,000 range. I’ve seen lots of units but they have that “old” look to it and I don’t like that. Plus I hear a lot of places won’t let you in with anything over 10 years old and I could actually tell them this is a 2012 instead of 2000 and they would be hard-pressed to tell the difference !!’ LOL

[Plumber101010]

Rick Jay wrote:
Sorry, I'm probably violating at least one of your rules, but what minivan has a 5,000 lb. tow rating? We may be looking for a replacement for our Odyssey in the coming years and I've yet to see any minivan with more than a 3,500 lb. tow limit, and even that is usually with only a single occupant in the van.

Why don't you just look for DP with a 10,000+ lb. tow rating? There seems to be quite a few of them around. In fact, I just checked on the 2000 Newmar Brochure and that floorplan on the Spartan Chassis has a GCWR of 37,400 and a GVWR of 27,400, so it should be able to handle 10,000 lbs.

So, I suspect if you do research (maybe you already did) on the differences between the Spartan and Freightliner chassis of that era, you might have an answer.

Well, whatever you decide, good luck in your search and decision.
Rick

Actually I did not do a comparison between the two chassis. I’m not really searching with that kind of criteria. I’m basically doing a search for certain years, certain brands, certain amount of money, things like that. I haven’t narrowed it down to only being in a Newmar, though that is my first choice next to maybe a Monaco or American Coach.

[Plumber101010]

hipower wrote:
I can't and won't get into the legalities etc., just stating my personal experience.

I have a 2003 DS (4050) 40 diesel coach. I have approximately 105,000 on it and have pulled my 2009 Chevy Silverado about 30,000 miles behind it. I don't know the weight of the truck either empty or loaded as we tow it. Sometimes it has a bunch of extra stuff in it, others it has our golf cart in it. I use a 10K rated Blue Ox tow bar and baseplate along with an auxiliary braking system. I have never beefed up the original hitch and inspect it once a year just to make sure nothing has broken or come loose.

I have never experienced any engine, transmission or other drive train issues that could be remotely attributed to towing my truck.

Advice to the OP, do what you want with this info on my personal experience.

Do what I want with your info? Absolutely, what I am doing with that info is smiling from ear to ear right now 🙂 you have a crew cab or standard?

[Plumber101010]

mike brez wrote:

K Charles wrote:
GCWR minus GVWR. There brochure says it's 324000 and 27400

I think your #s are a little off :B

I agree, the specifications I am showing is tad under 26,000 fully loaded!

[Plumber101010]

hipower wrote:

mike brez wrote:
That 300hp engine ain't going to like it

For many years we trucked freight up and down the highways with less than 200 HP. Long before the interstate highway system eliminated or bypassed some of the real grades on this country. 300 HP is not even slightly taxed by moving a motorhome and a toad down the road today unless you expect the combination to drive like a car and not a large vehicle.

Exactly my thoughts, and I thank you for your honesty!!!!