Campground Theft - Chapter 2

[jjson775]

I posted on this forum 2 years ago after a similar incident that happened to us in Iowa, it stirred up a lot of controversy.

Last week we were in Fredericksburg, TX and were not happy with our assigned campsite. After 1 nite, the CG manager agreed to let us move to a better spot so we drove back to our site to get our stuff. When we got there, I noticed that our neighbor took our leveling blocks and was using them to hold his sewer hose down. Also, he had hooked up our TV cable to his trailer. I could also tell that he had tried to take our expensive surge protector, that I secure with a bicycle lock.

The people were not home so I taped a note to their door saying "You took our blocks and hooked our TV cable to your trailer. If you had taken the surge protector, I would have called Fredericksburg PD"

This is a risk we always run when we are gone for the day, leaving gear at the campsite. We never leave our doormat at the campsite, having lost several of them to thieves. We also never leave our electrical cable at the site because of the big nuisance if it is stolen.

[Effy]

Where are these accusations coming from? I don't think anyone on here said anything about it being ok to steal or empathizing with those that do.

Don't confuse putting some onus on the people that leave stuff behind unattended with abdicating criminal activity.

I think everyone agrees the stealing part is bad.

Seems it's split on whether there is any accountability for someone to repeatedly leave stuff for someone to steal.

[Walaby]

Just because folks are of the opinion that there is some personal responsibility to be had, does NOT mean they think it is okay to steal.

Mike

[jjson775]

It is very clear from the comments on this post that many people think what they find in an empty campsite is theirs for the taking. They do the same with things they find in airplane seats, movie theaters or church pews.

Just to avoid the nuisance, I'm going to make a sign "We'll be right back" to leave in our campsite, it might help. I would like to add a combative remark to it but my bride won't like it.

[Walaby]

booster wrote:
I repeat, why do you think it is OK for them to steal?

Lantley never said it is okay for them to steal. In fact, he said

We are not saying it's OK to steal, but I am saying putting things away in the first place will resolve the issue.

In a nutshell, this is a factual statement. Securing personal belongings will resolve the theft.

Mike

[booster]

Lantley-I will repeat once more, it doesn't matter if they are hardened criminals or saints, if they take something that isn't theirs it is stealing. That is not the discussion here, I have to assume, and hope.

The discussion is why anyone would think it is OK for them to steal, and how it is our fault? Just because they are not axe murderers, it is OK?

The solution is easy,if they are not turning in what they find, they are no different, at that point in time, than any other thief. How can you dispute that?

I repeat, why do you think it is OK for them to steal?

Not that we couldn't prevent it, why do you defend them?

To me, and I think many others, the answer is easy. There is no defense for what they do, they are wrong. Can we prevent our own personal loss, yes most of the time. Does that make the thief, who then goes somewhere else, less of a thief, I don't think so.

I would ask everyone who has replied to this discussion--Have you ever "found" something at a campsite and taken it to the office, and have you ever kept what you found? That would be the best place for this discussion to go. Yes, we have found stuff, and yes we always turned it in.

In your example of the keys in the car, do you think that the police would pat the thief on the head and say, "oh, not your fault because they shouldn't have left the keys" or would they be off to jail and court?

[Lantley]

Booster you are correct I was initially quoting Effy.
But my point is the same. You/We are not going to retrain/educate people one camp site at a time. There have always been and will always be dishonest people.
It's nice to think we don't need prisons. But bad guys exist.
We have fire stations and ambulances, as much as we don't like it fires and accidents are going to happen. Human beings have flaws and will always exhibit some bad behaviors. That is not going to change whether we like it or not.
The neighbor campers are not hardened criminals but they are opportunist and scavengers on the lookout for items they can claim as their own.
We must use rationale precaution to avoid our items being taken.
Leaving them unattended is simply not working for the OP. Scolding each offender on CG at a time is an effort in futility.
This is the definition of insanity.
Repeating the same behavior over and over while expecting a different result each time. Keep leaving the stuff out and neighbor campers will keep taking it.

Car theft is illegal. Nevertheless I would not suggest you leave the keys in your car with the door unlocked when you are out and about.
Same principle applies to camping gear. We are not saying it's OK to steal, but I am saying putting things away in the first place will resolve the issue.
After years of camping, the reasonable conclusion is you can make the effort to put things away before you depart. Or you can spend the time finding and retrieving the items when you return.....I'm out!

[booster]

Lantley wrote:

booster wrote:

Effy wrote:
Is it right? No. People should not take things that do not belong to them. We learn that in pre-school. Do they do it anyway? Yes. Is it fairly common knowledge people steal things? yes. Has the OP had this happen to him in the past? Yes. So, despite it not being right, we know it happens, it has happened, and people still leave their stuff laying behind when they venture out for the day anyway. The only obvious option is to mitigate the risk by not leaving your stuff lay around. Otherwise, one can come on here and complain all day, it does not change the fact your stuff was stolen. The only way to stop that is don't leave it in a place for it to be stolen. Not sure why this thread got more complicated than that. Sure it's bad, but you have the power to prevent it.

When I was younger my parents bought me a bicycle. It was a very cool bike. Schwinn crate 3 speed. We lived in an apartment on the ground floor with a patio. My parents told me to bring it in to the locked inside storage area over night. It was a hassle. So I started just leaving it on the patio. Well it got stolen. Sure it was our property. Sure it was illegal. Didn't change the fact that my bike was stolen. My parents scolded me for leaving it in a place they specifically told me not to. And told me that despite the thief stealing it, I was partly responsible. Or at least irresponsible. The next bike I paid for with my allowance. I kept it locked up inside and never had an issue.

So complain all you want, but leave your stuff in the open unattended and you are rolling the dice.

BTW - I have never had anything stolen at a CG. Ever. I lock stuff up at night in bins, bikes on the carrier, locked, and I keep it that way when venturing out for the day. Hassle? Maybe - depends on your perspective. Getting stuff stolen is a bigger hassle.

I think you are missing the point. The real issue here is not the fact that people steal, that you can prevent a lot of it, or that you shouldn't have to. The issue is, and why this discussion goes on so long, is with the folks that have been making excuses for the thieves and blaming the victims.

I have to agree with what someone said earlier that was something like "if you are making excuses for the thieves, it is likely because you have done the same". Harsh, but also probably accurate, and we have heard way too many people making excuses. Very disappointing that there are than many around here that think that way.

I don't think Booster missed the point at all. His point is he was partly responsible full being irresponsible enough not to lock up his bike like his parents told him.
Sort of like not putting your stuff away before you leave vs. gambling they will be there when you return.
We know dishonest people exist, how many times do you have to have your stuff pilfered/scavenged/claimed/stolen before one decides to just put it away?

I think you are referring to effy, not me. But, I will repeat, I don't argue with what you say, all of that is possible, but SHOULD be unnecessary.

My question is, if we know there are bad folks out there, why would so many people here infer it is our fault, not theirs. Do you really believe that it is OK for them to steal if we don't prevent it. Read the past posts the were rationalizing that they just didn't know the stuff was not abandoned, but didn't turn it in. Does that sound like ethical behavior? I am not saying thieves won't steal, but I am saying that anyone that makes excuses for them is more like them than not. Again harsh, but why would we not believe that. Remember that was said was that it wasn't the theft that was the big issue in this discussion, it was the defense of the thieves that was perpetuating it.

[westernrvparkow]

stevenal wrote:
On two separate occasions, I had stuff taken from sites that were paid up for the following nights; from campground hosts. A cheap propane lantern that would not be needed until evening after we returned, returned with apologies upon return. Dog tie out cables, also not needed during the day outing. This time the neighbors told us who took them. When confronted, the host returned them reluctantly and without apology stating he thought we had abandoned them. Pretty good racket.

Your definition of a good racket and mine differ. Stealing a cheap lantern and a dog tie out couldn't be very profitable. It's kind of like people saying people who beg on the side of the road have a good gig. To have such low self esteem that would allow you to steal items literally worth pennies or be seen as a beggar on the side of the road for spare change isn't a "good racket" as far as I am concerned.
I doubt those camp hosts were rocket scientists. Based on what they took, they may actually believed the items were abandoned, regardless of what evidence they saw to the contrary. The world probably looks a lot different when viewed from their moccasins.

[Lantley]

booster wrote:

Effy wrote:
Is it right? No. People should not take things that do not belong to them. We learn that in pre-school. Do they do it anyway? Yes. Is it fairly common knowledge people steal things? yes. Has the OP had this happen to him in the past? Yes. So, despite it not being right, we know it happens, it has happened, and people still leave their stuff laying behind when they venture out for the day anyway. The only obvious option is to mitigate the risk by not leaving your stuff lay around. Otherwise, one can come on here and complain all day, it does not change the fact your stuff was stolen. The only way to stop that is don't leave it in a place for it to be stolen. Not sure why this thread got more complicated than that. Sure it's bad, but you have the power to prevent it.

When I was younger my parents bought me a bicycle. It was a very cool bike. Schwinn crate 3 speed. We lived in an apartment on the ground floor with a patio. My parents told me to bring it in to the locked inside storage area over night. It was a hassle. So I started just leaving it on the patio. Well it got stolen. Sure it was our property. Sure it was illegal. Didn't change the fact that my bike was stolen. My parents scolded me for leaving it in a place they specifically told me not to. And told me that despite the thief stealing it, I was partly responsible. Or at least irresponsible. The next bike I paid for with my allowance. I kept it locked up inside and never had an issue.

So complain all you want, but leave your stuff in the open unattended and you are rolling the dice.

BTW - I have never had anything stolen at a CG. Ever. I lock stuff up at night in bins, bikes on the carrier, locked, and I keep it that way when venturing out for the day. Hassle? Maybe - depends on your perspective. Getting stuff stolen is a bigger hassle.

I think you are missing the point. The real issue here is not the fact that people steal, that you can prevent a lot of it, or that you shouldn't have to. The issue is, and why this discussion goes on so long, is with the folks that have been making excuses for the thieves and blaming the victims.

I have to agree with what someone said earlier that was something like "if you are making excuses for the thieves, it is likely because you have done the same". Harsh, but also probably accurate, and we have heard way too many people making excuses. Very disappointing that there are than many around here that think that way.

I don't think Booster missed the point at all. His point is he was partly responsible full being irresponsible enough not to lock up his bike like his parents told him.
Sort of like not putting your stuff away before you leave vs. gambling they will be there when you return.
We know dishonest people exist, how many times do you have to have your stuff pilfered/scavenged/claimed/stolen before one decides to just put it away?

[booster]

Effy wrote:
Is it right? No. People should not take things that do not belong to them. We learn that in pre-school. Do they do it anyway? Yes. Is it fairly common knowledge people steal things? yes. Has the OP had this happen to him in the past? Yes. So, despite it not being right, we know it happens, it has happened, and people still leave their stuff laying behind when they venture out for the day anyway. The only obvious option is to mitigate the risk by not leaving your stuff lay around. Otherwise, one can come on here and complain all day, it does not change the fact your stuff was stolen. The only way to stop that is don't leave it in a place for it to be stolen. Not sure why this thread got more complicated than that. Sure it's bad, but you have the power to prevent it.

When I was younger my parents bought me a bicycle. It was a very cool bike. Schwinn crate 3 speed. We lived in an apartment on the ground floor with a patio. My parents told me to bring it in to the locked inside storage area over night. It was a hassle. So I started just leaving it on the patio. Well it got stolen. Sure it was our property. Sure it was illegal. Didn't change the fact that my bike was stolen. My parents scolded me for leaving it in a place they specifically told me not to. And told me that despite the thief stealing it, I was partly responsible. Or at least irresponsible. The next bike I paid for with my allowance. I kept it locked up inside and never had an issue.

So complain all you want, but leave your stuff in the open unattended and you are rolling the dice.

BTW - I have never had anything stolen at a CG. Ever. I lock stuff up at night in bins, bikes on the carrier, locked, and I keep it that way when venturing out for the day. Hassle? Maybe - depends on your perspective. Getting stuff stolen is a bigger hassle.

I think you are missing the point. The real issue here is not the fact that people steal, that you can prevent a lot of it, or that you shouldn't have to. The issue is, and why this discussion goes on so long, is with the folks that have been making excuses for the thieves and blaming the victims.

I have to agree with what someone said earlier that was something like "if you are making excuses for the thieves, it is likely because you have done the same". Harsh, but also probably accurate, and we have heard way too many people making excuses. Very disappointing that there are than many around here that think that way.

[Effy]

Is it right? No. People should not take things that do not belong to them. We learn that in pre-school. Do they do it anyway? Yes. Is it fairly common knowledge people steal things? yes. Has the OP had this happen to him in the past? Yes. So, despite it not being right, we know it happens, it has happened, and people still leave their stuff laying behind when they venture out for the day anyway. The only obvious option is to mitigate the risk by not leaving your stuff lay around. Otherwise, one can come on here and complain all day, it does not change the fact your stuff was stolen. The only way to stop that is don't leave it in a place for it to be stolen. Not sure why this thread got more complicated than that. Sure it's bad, but you have the power to prevent it.

When I was younger my parents bought me a bicycle. It was a very cool bike. Schwinn crate 3 speed. We lived in an apartment on the ground floor with a patio. My parents told me to bring it in to the locked inside storage area over night. It was a hassle. So I started just leaving it on the patio. Well it got stolen. Sure it was our property. Sure it was illegal. Didn't change the fact that my bike was stolen. My parents scolded me for leaving it in a place they specifically told me not to. And told me that despite the thief stealing it, I was partly responsible. Or at least irresponsible. The next bike I paid for with my allowance. I kept it locked up inside and never had an issue.

So complain all you want, but leave your stuff in the open unattended and you are rolling the dice.

BTW - I have never had anything stolen at a CG. Ever. I lock stuff up at night in bins, bikes on the carrier, locked, and I keep it that way when venturing out for the day. Hassle? Maybe - depends on your perspective. Getting stuff stolen is a bigger hassle.

[booster]

In regard to site poachers not taking your site in park that keeps track of things, is not accurate, and it happens more often than most would ever think. It has happened to us several times. One time in Custer State Park in South Dakata, we came back from a quick trip to the store and the hosts were at the site putting our stuff back in order. Poachers came in threw all our stuff into the brush and setup, and then started arguing with the camp hosts that because we didn't have a vehicle there, they should be able to take the site, which had been paid for for 3 more days. Hosts had to call main park office to talk to them, and they still didn't go until they said they were calling the sheriff to remove them. The site poachers count on being able to intimidate someone coming back to their site, especially if it after hours and the park office is closed, which is happening earlier all the time. They just refuse to leave and dare you to call the police, who really don't like, and shouldn't need to do, campsite enforcement.

[GaryKH]

If this is a recurring issue, then set a trap. Stay in your van reading, or something, with the front curtains closed. If your neighbour then comes over into your site to scope things out, you then confront him. Take lots of pictures. Then either report it to the office, or the cops. Best to do this on a rainy day as you wouldn't want to wreck your outdoor camping time! 🙂
But really, this should not even be happening in the first place! If i have claimed a site, whether it's in a private park, or public, then i should feel comfortable leaving my items in the campsite! It is the people who come into your site to steal (liberate) things that are in the wrong and should be treated accordingly. Traveling in a van makes it difficult to pack everything up when you want to enjoy the surroundings. We should not be held hostage by scum!

[stevenal]

On two separate occasions, I had stuff taken from sites that were paid up for the following nights; from campground hosts. A cheap propane lantern that would not be needed until evening after we returned, returned with apologies upon return. Dog tie out cables, also not needed during the day outing. This time the neighbors told us who took them. When confronted, the host returned them reluctantly and without apology stating he thought we had abandoned them. Pretty good racket.