Check Engine Light...Going on 5 years & 20,000 miles...

[T-Rex]

After 5 years (and 20,000 miles) of owning my 2007 Class C RV with an E450 chassis, I am finally committed to resolving what should have been addressed right way. The prior owner had taken the RV to a Ford Dealership service center after seeing a Check Engine Light (CEL), and they replaced an oxygen sensor for over $600. The problem initially appeared to have been resolved, but soon later, it reappeared. Since it never posed a significant problem, I've always just erased the code and went on my merry way. I recently saw a forum post stating that a "stuck lean" code could indicate a problem that may be engine damaging, and so I'm FINALLY anxious to get this properly resolved.

When I start the engine for the first time on a given day, the engine usually runs fairly rough and sounds like it may stall (though it never has), and sometimes this rough idle is accompanied by the CEL. Eventually it "smooths out" on it's own, especially if I give it a little gas. If the engine has already been warmed up, and I start the engine, it immediately runs smoothly and no CEL appears. Over the past year or so, it's only been a P2195 code, but previously, I've seen P2196, P2197 and P0105.

If it's not too difficult, I'm willing to try replacing sensors with new ones or just clean the existing ones. Even if I guess wrong once or twice about which part is defective, I'm probably better off financially than if I took it to a Ford dealership.

I would really appreciate any thoughts of the root cause of this issue given the signs and symptoms above, and thoughts about a novice tackling a repair himself.

Thank you,
Eric

[Krusty]

PCV system typically has one tube that goes from the intake manifold to one valve cover, and another tube that goes from the air intake duct to the opposite valve cover. Just check any of these tubes for soft spots, holes or leaks. They are usually fairly obvious.

[T-Rex]

Krusty wrote:
You likely have an air leak or a vacuum leak. Inspect hoses and ducts carefully. Starting with your air filter housing. Make sure the two halves are locked together all the way around (NOTE: this is very difficult with a K&N air filter unless you take the housing out and assemble it on a bench). Any gap between the two halves will result in rough running, and Check engine Lamp. Also check the rubber grommet where the MAF sensor wiring comes out of the air filter housing. Make sure it is seated fully. If you have any rubber elbows or couplings in your PCV tube, make sure they are not deteriorated and loose.

Thanks for the specific suggestions. Much appreciated.
I don't know what the PCV tube looks like, but I'll do some Google searching so that I know what I'm looking for. For now, I'm only familiar with the Air Intake Hose and housing for the air filter. After that, I'm in new territory...

[T-Rex]

klutchdust wrote:
Try posting the issue on BAT auto and a Ford truck forum. Your issue is the fuel/air mixture on a cold start. Post what you wrote on BAT, they have helped me in the past with real brain teasers.
This has to be dealt with methodically. As mentioned, contact cleaner ,not brake clean ,can really help.

Also once codes are cleared remove battery power to engine, it has an effect on the computer systems to reset. Kind of like what you do to your desktop.

Sounds like a good tip to try. Will do. Thanks.

[Krusty]

You likely have an air leak or a vacuum leak. Inspect hoses and ducts carefully. Starting with your air filter housing. Make sure the two halves are locked together all the way around (NOTE: this is very difficult with a K&N air filter unless you take the housing out and assemble it on a bench). Any gap between the two halves will result in rough running, and Check engine Lamp. Also check the rubber grommet where the MAF sensor wiring comes out of the air filter housing. Make sure it is seated fully. If you have any rubber elbows or couplings in your PCV tube, make sure they are not deteriorated and loose.

[bobndot]

My mechanic sprayed every connect/disconnect when he took them apart. I can't see how an electric contact cleaner would hurt anything. But that's just my opinion and I would not hesitate to do it.

[T-Rex]

bobndot wrote:
Im not a mechanic but I always watch my mechanic work . Whenever he takes things apart he always sprays the connectors by taking them apart to spray them with a contact cleaner.
He told me he does that bc the connectors are not made in the USA and they tend to 'not seal as well as they should' allowing moisture to enter.

There is a YouTube of how to check the air intake and change the filter.

go to YouTube and type in,
"Ford E450 RV how to change spark plugs, coils and air filter for maintenance"

Something to consider , rough idle situation, vacuum leak at the throttle body. That can also show a code.

https://www.sportsmobileforum.com/forums/f33/2013-6-8l-v10-low-idle-and-surging-19143.html

When you say that I should spray the contacts, are you referring to spraying the electrical connection that I disconnect in order to clean or replace the sensors (eg. MAF sensor)?

[T-Rex]

PartyOf Five wrote:
This is a commonly found engine and these are fairly routine parts to replace. I'd find a medium/ heavy truck repair shop and ask them you replace all the parts. We're talking much money on parts vs the labor cost to go in separately. This reduces variables quickly. www.rvservicereviews.com is a good listing of recommended providers by region.

As for DIY, are you comfortable Changing the air filter? Oil change? Replacing a sway bar? There are plenty of YouTube videos but you have to be in the right mindset to take on multiple part replacements and haven't given us an indicator of how much of a novice you are. When in doubt, I dig in, try, and learn- because an RV is expensive to maintain if you have everything done by others.

I can (and have) changed the oil. I've also recently changed (actually, reconditioned, the K&N air filter). This is pretty much the extent of anything I've ever done on an engine; however, with detailed instructions, I'm ready and willing to expand my meager experience.

[T-Rex]

midnightsadie wrote:
to start, you said it shakes an does start easy, FIX this first. engine should start easy and idle, if the engine isn,t starting good it could be causing other problems.

Thanks for the reply. The engine starts up just fine, but then idles rough for 5-10 minutes, and during this time, the CEL sometimes comes on, especially if I don't give it a little gas.

[klutchdust]

Try posting the issue on BAT auto and a Ford truck forum. Your issue is the fuel/air mixture on a cold start. Post what you wrote on BAT, they have helped me in the past with real brain teasers.
This has to be dealt with methodically. As mentioned, contact cleaner ,not brake clean ,can really help.

Also once codes are cleared remove battery power to engine, it has an effect on the computer systems to reset. Kind of like what you do to your desktop.

[bobndot]

I thought the OP has a code tester , he has been erasing the codes, its a recurring problem with that 2195 code.

[BurbMan]

Apply logic here: The MAF measures incoming air and the then PCM pulses the fuel injectors to dispense the right amount of fuel. If the O2 sensor says the mixture is always too lean, that means too little fuel or too much air. If too much air, then either the MAF is sending the wrong reading, or air is getting in somewhere after the MAF.

The lean code is also the symptom, fix the rough idle and the code will go away. Since the O2 sensor was already changed it's likely not that.

1. Get some MAF cleaner from the auto parts store and clean the MAF. DO NOT use any other chemical to clean the MAF.
2. Replace the air filter.
3. Check all vacuum lines for leaks, the V-10 has the known issue Grit Dog mentioned, the hove from the PCV melting.
4. Check for air leaks, be sure all bolts are tight to throttle body and intake manifold.
5. Check air intake tube after the MAF for cracks, etc.

A lean condition can also be caused by too little fuel, so it's possible one or more injectors on bank 1 are clogged or defective, but this is much less likely at this mileage that an air leak.

[midnightsadie]

to start, you said it shakes an does start easy, FIX this first. engine should start easy and idle, if the engine isn,t starting good it could be causing other problems.

[theoldwizard1]

Although the error code indicates a problem with the O2 sensor experience say that is NOT the real problem. It is likely a "vacuum" leak. There are many different places that could be leaking.

Find a good mechanic. It should not be that expensive to repair. Typical O2 replacement should be <$200.

[pushtoy_2]

falt code p2195 is a 02 sencer

[pushtoy_2]

Buy a code reader a cheep one that way the no guessing and replacing good parts . they are very ez to use and all the falt codes are on the enternet.. money well spent